are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ?

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (EasterEggs)

Tue, 14 May 2013 23:00:10 GMT

I use 1 mL Clorox per 1 gallon of larval tank water.

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (nrbelk)

Mon, 13 May 2013 11:04:33 GMT

Another question I have following these lines is how much household bleach should I be using to sterilize the water for fish fry? Is it the same amount I should use for sterilizing equipment?

I've mainly been dumping in a good amount and rinsing the equipment until I don't smell it anymore. I haven't tried sterilizing fish fry water yet.

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (m_loizides)

Mon, 13 May 2013 09:10:51 GMT

Hello,
I looked everywhere to find a solution for the dosage of CA-X as dechlorination agent. Maybe you can help me.
I use 250ml of bleach (12% active) in a 3000L tank. That's 10ppm active chlorine.
So is there a simple formula for the CA-X dosage?

Thanks in advance

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (Fishtal)

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 21:51:22 GMT

Originally Posted by KathyL

I read that CA-X is supposed to be used at 1 tsp (5 grams) to treat 10 gallons of city tap water, but here we are talking about how to reduce or neutralize a given amount of bleach, like for sterilizing tanks and equipment. Two different things.

I know. I was just tossing that out there since it came up.

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (KathyL)

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 21:50:12 GMT

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (Fishtal)

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 21:42:52 GMT

Originally Posted by KathyL

Originally Posted by wdt

what would be the recipe to make 1ml of cloram-x remove 1ml of standard bleach?

Bleach that is approx. 6% HOCl, has a molecular wt of 52. ChlorAm-X (CA-X) has molecular wt of 134.
Six % bleach has 134/52 = 2.6 times as many molecules as 6 % CA-X.

The molecules react in a one to one ratio.

You need 2.6 times as much 6% CA-X, by mass, to reduce a given volume of 6 % Bleach. Your solution of CA-X should be 2.6 x 6%= 15.6 % in order to use it one to one to reduce bleach. That's 15.6 grams per 100 ml.

Please feel free to tell me if
I have my math or my logic wrong.

Too complicated for me. FWIW, I was told, by "someone", that CX was to be used at 1tsp for 5 gallons of tap water. Good to know that I can use less.

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (GreshamH)

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 21:39:40 GMT

Looks right to me, but I am not one to ask on stuff like that :lol:

I'll email this to Eric and see what he says

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (KathyL)

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:20:54 GMT

Originally Posted by wdt

what would be the recipe to make 1ml of cloram-x remove 1ml of standard bleach?

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (JimWelsh)

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:38:53 GMT

I think the "standard bleach" that is being discussed is common household laundry bleach. My bottle of Clorox says it is 6% by weight sodium hypochlorite, and that it yields 5.7% free chlorine.

And please, everybody, measure your powder by weight, and not volume!

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (GreshamH)

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:20:04 GMT

there is missing data here... what type of bleach and at what concentration?

I asked our scientist who has the tables we need for this, but he left for a bit. When he is back, I'll see if he found it.

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (wdt)

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:50:04 GMT

I was looking for more along the lines of a 1 for 1 like with thio if you mix 6 grams with 100mL of water that gives you 1 to1 ratio of bleach to declorinator.

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (jeff@zina.com)

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:34:34 GMT

Originally Posted by wdt

what would be the recipe to make 1ml of cloram-x remove 1ml of standard bleach?

Rough calculation is 1 ML/10 gallons of water containing 1 ML of bleach. But standard bleach doesn't even need dechlorinator, it off gasses easily. Drop an air stone in it overnight.

Jeff

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (wdt)

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 08:51:38 GMT

what would be the recipe to make 1ml of cloram-x remove 1ml of standard bleach?

Re:are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (GreshamH)

Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:49:56 GMT

Cloram-X removes chlorine, chloramines and ammonia. No need for sodium thiosulphate

Originally Posted by

CHLORINE

This is the most commonly used disinfectant substance found in tap water in the world. This is because it is highly effective and inexpensive and the technology, in water treatment, is well documented and understood. The chlorine content of any water sample can be easily determined with available chlorine test kits. The best kind of kit is one, which will give two different, but related, measurements:

    * (1) “free, available chlorine” and
    * (2) “combined available chlorine”.

In the United States the federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and various federal, state and local public health agencies have required that for overall human health that the amount of trihalomethanes (mostly as chloroform, CHCl3) be significantly reduced or totally eliminated from drinking water. The source of trihalomethanes in drinking water comes mainly from the reaction of “free, available chlorine” with low levels of dissolved organic substances in the treated water.
The obvious problem with reducing “free, available chlorine” is that disease-causing organisms (e.g. polio virus, typhoid fever bacteria, and fecal coliform bacteria) would likely make it through the water treatment process and arrive at the customers’ taps.
“Free, available chlorine” is known, chemically, as “hypochlorite”. The hypochlorite ion, OCl-, is the same ion that is found in common, household bleach products. As every homemaker knows, bleach is one of the best disinfectants available. Some small water treatment companies even “batch treat” their water supplies by adding the required amount of industrial bleach solution to a large tank of water before it gets distributed through the water supply system. The larger water treatment companies simply add chlorine gas directly to the water treatment stream and thereby produce the hypochlorite in situ.
The actual concentration of hypochlorite in the delivered water will vary from day to day and from season to season depending upon the conditions of the feed water and how the chlorine is added to the water.
The removal of chlorine; called “dechlorination” is relatively simple and can be achieved by a number of chemical substances. In addition, when water contained almost exclusively “free, available chlorine” it could be strongly aerated for a few days at room temperature and most (but usually not all) of the chlorine would dissipate. This was called “aging” the water.
The actual chemical reaction that occurs between hypochlorite ions and ClorAm-X ™ is illustrated in the following chemical equation:

OCl- + HOCH2SO3Na -> H2NCH2SO4Na + Cl-

This results in the formation of chloride, Cl- and sulfate, SO4-2 ions.
As natural water sources around the US and, indeed, around the world became more and more polluted it became necessary to more aggressively treat water to insure a healthy product. This also meant adding increasing amounts of chlorine so that the water treatment agencies could insure that the chlorine residual being delivered to the customer was sufficient to maintain safe water throughout the ever aging distribution systems.
As chlorine content (as “free, available chlorine”) increased so did the trihalomethane content. Trihalomethanes are known cancer-causing agents (carcinogens). To counteract the trihalomethane threat and still provide safe water is was known that by increasing the “combined, available chlorine” content one could both make the water safe and eliminate the carcinogens. “Combined, available chlorine” is better know as “chloramines”.
CHLORAMINES

These substances are formed from the reaction between chlorine (or hypochlorite) and ammonia or ammonium compounds in water. There are three substances, which can be called chloramines. These are

    * (1) monochloramine, NH2Cl,
    * (2) dichloramine, NHCl2, and
    * (3) trichloramine, or nitrogen trichloride, NCl3.

The formation of these compounds are relatively easy to understand if one looks at the ammonia molecule, NH3, which consists of a central nitrogen atom, N, with three hydrogen atoms, H, attached. Any or all three of the hydrogens can be removed in a chemical reaction and each can be replaced by a chlorine atom, Cl.
The chemical reaction between monochloramine and ClorAm-X ™ is illustrated by the following chemical reaction:

NH2Cl + HOCH2SO3Na -> H2NCH2SO3Na + H+ + OCl-

The OCl- is hypochlorite. This ion then reacts with the sulfonate end of the ClorAm-X ™ molecule for form harmless chloride ions, Cl- (see the previous section “CHLORINE”).
In water treatment the first such compound, monochloramine, is the most desirable due to its stability in solution and its ability to kill viruses, bacteria and other microorganisms. In actual practice, there is always a small percentage of the total chloramine content present as dichloramine, but never any trichloramine. The trichloramine is very unstable and rapidly decomposes to free nitrogen and chlorine (that’s why one should never mix bleach and household ammonia (or ammonia-containing cleaners)).
When dechlorinated with ordinary dechlorinators the chloramines release the bound ammonia into the water. In addition, the chloramines are resistant to dissipation, even when the water is strongly aerated. The removal, or destruction, of chloramines is called “dechloramination”. There is only one substance which not only dechloraminates water, but is also stable in solution, is nontoxic and has been determined by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) that it does not come under their regulation. ClorAm-X ™ is, therefore, suitable for use on fishes and aquatic invertebrates intended for human consumption. This substance is found in ClorAm-X ™ and is protected by US and foreign patents.
SPECIFICATIONS

ClorAm-X ™ is a single-phase, dechlorinating (chlorine removing), deaminating (ammonia removing), and dechloraminating (chloramine removing) agent. It is a white powder that is essentially odorless (upon long-term storage the product may develop a very slight odor) and completely soluble in water.

Dosage: use 1 teaspoon (~ 5 mL) per 10 gallon of water.

are there any problems with using sodium thiosulphate and cloram-x together ? (r33fking)

Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:50:58 GMT

i use sodium thiosulphate to dechlor after sterilizing my larval tubs . i also use cloram-x to detoxify NH3 .
is anyone aware of any toxicity issues with the use of both in conjunction?