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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:00 PM
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That's true, the aeration could be the problem. Rotigrow does create oil slicks so more aeration would help oxygenate the water. Do you use some ammonia neutralizer with the Rotigrow? How much water change per day? Thanks
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Friday, April 23, 2010 9:49 PM
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 Originally Posted by Barelycuda Interesting theory on the gill clogging. I had never thought of that. Not my theory. Repeating secondhand info and regretably can't remember who told me about this. quote=Barelycuda]I wonder if it is more of an issue with fish of other species than clownfish. Obviously clownfish hatch more developed than other fish so it may be more of an issue. Maybe I'll try 2 seperate clutches of clowns from the same brood and change only the greenwater. I don't know how accurate it would be without testing multiple clutches on both for comparison but I'm always up for something different.
A few repeat tests certainly could be revealing.
Originally Posted by Barelycuda I can try to go back and see exactly how long ago I switched but I know that the last 2 orders from Reed were the Rotigrow PLUS. I usually order around every 5-6 weeks so that would be 2-3 months. As far as the exact levels that I use in the green water would be hard to say. To be honest with you I am not the most technical guy and don't always keep the best records  I usually keep the water a little green with the Rotigrow Plus to keep the rots feed with the larva. I dose the Rotigrow Plus twice a day and usually dose a little less each day as the larva progress til I am just trying to add enough to keep the rots nourished.
It could all be in the LEVEL of dosage. I was dosing probably rather heavily.
Originally Posted by Barelycuda When I talked to Randy Reed initially about the Rotigrow PLUS he did say that he didn't know if it would work for greenwater. I am going to try the Rotigreen and the N-Rich products but unless the clutch is large I am not convinced that it will be all that beneficial.
Well, I may have already written this, but here's the thing. RotiGreen is MEANT to be used as Greenwater, and it TOO has the more balanced HUFA ratio we want, which is lacking when you only use Nanno. Since RotiGrow Plus wasn't designed for greenwater use, that's where we're all coming up short, and since I don't think Reed has tested it for that use, that's why Reed can't say whether it's OK or not, because I don't think they really know. I had my best successful settlement EVER with the RotiGreen for Greenwater, and RotiGrow Plus for the rotifer feed. That's kinda how the system is designed to be used, so it would make sense that I did well.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Friday, April 23, 2010 10:38 PM
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I wrote some notes about Rotigreen vs. Rotigrow when I talked to Randy the other day but I can't find them now.... ( I think the wife may have thrown them out on accident) But from what I remember there are differences in the levels of DHA & EPA with Rotigrow being the better balanced food.
One thought I had is that given the limited time it takes for a rotifer to empty its gut that unless it is consumed fairly quickly after being introduced into the larval tank the extra nutrition is gone. I have had small clutches of clowns where I haven't added rotifers for a few days if the density remains higher than the consumption. With rotigreen there may not be the same enrichment as rotigrow. I am going to hatch a rather large clutch of B&W's on Tuesday and am going to use Rotigreen on this batch for the greenwater. I have raised 5 clutches with the rotigrow and will follow the same cleaning and water change guidlines to see if there is a difference in the development and markings. I am not as concerned about deaths as typically I only lose maybe 1-2% during metamorphasis but more of the development of the stripes.
Zooid- No I have not used an ammonia neutralizer in the past with my larva. I had always been concerned with the addition of chemicals damaging the larva. I did use Cloram-X on the last batch of Ocellaris and did not have one death after day 2 and the markings seem to be ok so I would say that there is no harm. With water changes I usually do a 15%-20% twice daily. Since there is nobody around during the day as my wife & I both work I start a water change in the morning and evening. I usually siphon out the tank in the evening.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:44 AM
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OK, just got off the phone with Randy today and here's what the working theory is. Bottom line, it IS a problem with the level of lipids in the RotiGrow Plus. Basically, it creates that oil slick on the surface, and the theory is that can interfere with swim bladder inflation. This is of course technically nothing new, as even Wilkerson talks about removing the oil slick from a larval tank with a paper towel. But when you dose with RotiGrow Plus, you are virtually creating / replacing that oil slick. Thus, when the fish mature to the point where they might inflate the swim bladder, they can't (or maybe they get oil) and thus, they start dropping like flies.
The interesting part is that this theory also supports why SOME PEOPLE have success and others do not. Whether you maybe have surface skimming in your larval rearing (removes oil slick) or you are simply dosing at a very light rate, you might be avoiding the problems you can have with using RotiGrow Plus as a greenwater. Of course, Rotifers don't have any issues with oil slicks on the surface, and thus, the extra Lipids work well.
All of that said, Randy explained again that RotiGreen is the product DESIGNED for use as a Greenwater product. It has much lower lipid levels, and while it too creates a little bit of a slick, it's nothing like what happens with the RotiGrow Plus.
Now, to round it out, Randy also offered up that if a fish would not go to the surface to inflate it's swim bladder, you possibly COULD use the RotiGrow Plus, because again, that oil slick wouldn't matter.
Ultimately, I guess if you experiment, you take a risk. RotiGreen for greenwater, that's what it was made for. RotiGrow Plus for culturing / enriching rotifers (although there IS a separate enrichment product if you so choose).
FWIW,
Matt
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:20 AM
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Just noting that July 19th we had another spawn and the nests have returned to normal quality, big, lots of bright orange eggs. I may rear this batch 
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Tuesday, July 20, 2010 12:34 PM
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Gresham has told me the same thing about RotiGrow+. I haven't tried it in larval tanks but I don't even seem to see any oil slicks with it. My current working theory is that my O. marina contaminants eat the oils.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Tuesday, July 20, 2010 2:59 PM
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This may be silly, but couldn't you just use a cheap-o in tank skimmer here? I'm thinking the style of the JBJ/JBL (can never remember the acronym) wood block air pump skimmer? Simply put a basket with filter floss around it and just skim the slick away? Granted it doesn't work if you are using a large (+30G or bigger) tank, but in theory it should work.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:01 AM
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Interesting thought, but I think a lot of us would be worried about BABIES getting skimmed out! Sorry I didn't see that and reply sooner!
I just wanted to update and say that I currently have 2 back to back batches going, one was the spawn from the 19th of July, which hatched on the 27th/28th. I think the others hatched August 16th? The pair is back to producing high quality nests, and while I still get 50% die off the day of the hatch, using the RotiGrow+ and RotiGreen system has without a doubt given me BETTER results than I got with live Photoplankton. I am probably going to have HUNDREDS of Onyx Percs by Christmas time! Just a side note, the parents just laid down another nest on the 20th of August...man, they just keep spawning and they're over a half decade old now.
I probably should get better about recording my spawns again...a decade from now it might be interesting to see just how many thousands of eggs they may have laid!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:06 AM
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I dig the RG+ product a lot and I'm also a fan of the Nrich product. Good stuff. I still never see oil slicks, though. Culture containers that get straight RG+ do seem to foul pretty fast, so I'd be really careful how much you use if you use it for greenwater.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:32 AM
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I'm getting a slick even with using the RotiGreen only in my Black Round Tubs, but I'm not sure if that's "carryover" from using the same pipette to do my feedings of RotiGrow Plus into the Rotifer cultures. I think I've had more problems with the rotifer cultures crashing due to overfeeding than anything else. Even at full bore, 2 drops of the thawed RotiGrow + is a HEAVY feeding it seems.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Sunday, August 22, 2010 1:49 AM
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I normally feed rotifers ten drops per gallon and it lasts about 12 hours or so. I have to stir the RotiGrow+ in very well or I'll get a big oil slick.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:25 AM
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Matt, at some point I should really send you some of the O. marina. I culture O. m. and rots right next to each other and I have to work _really_ hard to crash a rot culture from overfeeding. My problem is from eventual culture fouling if I let it run too long in one bucket, but I think that's a separate issue. I feed the rots too little to get a full-blown O. m. bloom in their cultures, but I'm sure that there's cross-contamination and I'm sure the O. m. make my rots easier to culture. Plus, they are a fun, easy dinoflagellate all on their own.
When I change out culture containers of either the rots or the O. m., I run everything through a 54 micron screen and occasionally getting rid of the other population seems to keep the populations in check so one doesn't overrun the other.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:14 AM
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I just started using RGreen and RGrow so I thought I'd toss in my experiences with it.
RGrow: I also noticed that I need to clean the culture buckets a little more often but I'm getting much higher rotifer density than when using Rotifer HD.
RGreen: I noticed a slight "oil slick" as mentioned if I add it by drops. If, on the other hand, I use a syringe and suck up a bit of tank water before adding it (mixing the RGreen w/ water) I don't get the slick. I used this method and product on my latest Darwin batch and have had little to no die-off.
I'm quite happy with both products. Cant wait to try it for my fridmani.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Sunday, August 29, 2010 7:44 PM
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Evening of August 29th now, and both the male and female are going nutz on the nest. That to me means it's hatch night (well, the first one anyway!). 9 days...like clockwork. Going to pull the nest and try it in a BLUE round tub...medium blue...to see how it compares to using the Black one...
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Sunday, August 29, 2010 8:15 PM
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Good luck Are your tubs the 17 gallon tubs?
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