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Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:15 AM
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Breeding Journal DataSheet
This first post should be updated regularly to include new information as events take place or changes are made to your system General Species: Thor amboinensis. Social Structure: Protandric hermaphrodite. Size of Individuals: 1 to 2 centimeters. Age of Individuals: Date added to Tank: June 9, 2011. Broodstock Tank Details Size of Tank: 2.5g display with 5g sump. Substrate Details: 1/2" deep sugar-fine quartz. Filtration Details: AquaticLife Mini 115 skimmer and Fluval U1 for carbon. Water Changes: 2qt/day mature display tank water. Water Temperature: 78 - 80 degrees fahrenheit. Lighting: ~9" of a 24" T5 10k x2 (shared with kreisel refugium). Lighting Cycle: 12/12. Other Tank Inhabitants: Small watermelon mushroom. Broodstock Feeding Details Food Types: Formula 1. Feeding Schedule: Ever other day. Spawning Details Date of First Spawn: Spawn Time of Day: Dates of Consecutive Spawns: Courtship Details: Males compete to sidle up along side the female. Once the female accepts a mate, the male mounts her from behind. A quick lift of her tail and the deed is done in an instant. The male then guards the female from other males for several minutes after mating. Egg Size: < 0.5 millimeter. Egg Color: Red-orange Egg Count: ~2 dozen? Hatch Details Hatch Date: Hatch Time of Day: # Days after Spawn: Larvae Description: Larval Tank Details Temperature: 78 - 79 degrees fahrenheit. Size of Larval Tank: ~4g cylinder in a 10g tank with ~4g HOB refugium. Substrate Details: 3.5" deep sugar-fine quartz (refugium only). Other Tank Decor: Filtration Details: Fluval 105 with carbon and sponges (cleaned daily), DSB, and Chaeto. Lighting: ~15" of a 24" T5 10k x2 (shared with brood tank). Lighting Cycle: 12/12. Water Changes: Larval Feeding Details Food Types: Baby brine shrimp. Feeding Schedule: Metamorphosis/Settlement Date of Settlement Start: Days after Hatch: Date of Settlement End: Description of Fry:
Grow-Out Tank Details Temperature: Size of Grow-Out Tank: Substrate Details: Other Tank Decor: Filtration Details: Lighting: Lighting Cycle: Water Changes: Size at Transfer: Age at Transfer: Grow-Out Feeding Details Food Types: Feeding Schedule: Additional Information (No Pictures or Videos in the Section Please) Miscellaneous Information: Breeder Log Kreisel Log You will be required to provide photographic evidence in this thread of each event submitted for the MBI Program.
If your thread does not contain these photos the MBI Committee will not be able to approve your reports.
<message edited by Whys Alives on Thursday, August 4, 2011 3:25 PM>
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:36 AM
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Props to pj86 for his fantastic thread and recent success. I will be following that thread closely. I'm not entirely sure what "protandric hermaphrodite" means, but I trust it's accurate. :] This thread represents an important first objective of a more grandiose goal. It is also intended as an experiment in cross posting for greater collaborative opportunity. Specifically, I wish to eventually breed Chelidonura varians (Blue Velvet Nudibranch) and am first breeding Thor amboinensis (Sexy Shrimp) for experience. I am also attempting to cast this same thread across multiple forums and will cross post appropriate comments by others via quotation. Also, if you have fairly conservative views and are easily discomforted, then you may wish to follow some other thread. Don't say I didn't give warning.  Partners in Pr0n: www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18262333
<message edited by Whys Alives on Monday, March 28, 2011 12:19 AM>
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:45 AM
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:48 AM
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The 40gph pump is made for desktop fountains and has a max lift of 1.8 feet. It comes with a 5/16" O.D. outlet coupler that appears intended for black hydroponic tubing.  Instead, I will mate this pump to loc-line, using the following items. Vinyl Tubing: 7/16" O.D. x 5/16" I.D. Nylon Adapter: 3/8" barb x 1/2" male-threaded. PVC Coupler: 1/2" female-threaded x 1/2" female-threaded. Loc-line Adapter: 1/2" male-threaded x 1/2" Loc-line.  A happy marriage!  The vinyl tubing is not a perfect fit to the nylon adapter and requires a little stretching (1/16" to be exact). A little REEF-SAFE silicon grease can be used if needed, but I find without it the snug fit makes a clamp unnecessary. I'll probably clamp the vinyl tubing to the outlet coupler with a nylon zip-tie.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:50 AM
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I will also use this 3" PVC as circular baffle. I could only find ABS in sizes larger than 2", here in town. So I ordered this 5 foot section of grey 3" PVC along with the 6g jug.  Now I know what you're thinking. Devils workshop, right? Have no fear! Packaged with this faith questioning piece of plastic, came this!  I couldn't make this up if I tried.  As for that jug...  It's perfectly round on bottom, but slightly oval on top. However, I only need about the bottom 10 inches, so this should work. Next, I will cut the PVC to length and place it vertically in the 10g tank. I'll temporarily seal the bottom to the glass, probably with silly putty, and submerge the pump inside the PVC. Then I'll experiment with the overflow in an attempt to draw water equally from all sides.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:51 AM
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Anyone who has ever tried to get a perfectly straight, perfectly perpendicular, and perfectly flat cut of PVC knows, a conduit cutter is needed. Fortunately, I just happen to have one!  Hmmm... :/ Hacksaw and sandpaper it is! This is an 11" section, sanded to ad nauseum, with silly putty finish.  Viola! Now it's erect.  The GPH looks really good...   ...but the overflow trickles down just one side.  I've given it some thought and I believe the best solution is to use micron sock at the point of overflow. This way it will diffuse across the entire surface, hopefully drawing water equally from all sides.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:52 AM
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I use these on my sump drain and bought an extra one just for the material. It doesn't wick and it diffuses water flow really well. 100 Micron Filter Sock:  I've wrapped a small strip around the outside of the pvc, held in place by a rubber band.  The overflow has now broken into about 8 smaller streams spaced fairly evenly around the circumference.  I believe this is actually working even better than it appears because the flow only breaks into separate streams upon hitting the inner edge. As you can see, the water level rises about 1/4" above the edge of the PVC as it initially flows thru the micron sock. When the pump is turned on and off, the streams very gradually rise and fall more or less in unison.  I now feel confident that this methodology will spread the draw over a greater area, more evenly, and thus much more gently.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:41 PM
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Whys Alives, nice to see that someone is taking it to the next level. Protandric hermaphrodite means that all larva are male upon birth, and may switch into females later in their life cycle. Very interesting that you say you want to try to raise Chelidonura varians, because I also am interested in growing them. I have a thread about Chelidonura varians in another forum, and quite a few ideas and material. I'll let you know when the project is started.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Saturday, March 26, 2011 4:06 PM
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I've taken both the top and bottom off of the jug. I tried several different tools, but ultimately found a hacksaw worked best. As I suspected, without the oval top, the jug now seems genuinely less stressed and more well rounded. In fact, it immediately wanted to go outside to play.
<message edited by Whys Alives on Sunday, March 27, 2011 1:12 AM>
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:37 PM
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I'd be honored to have your collaboration, Pj. I have found you and jayelblock both to be tremendous assets in my efforts thus far.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:35 AM
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It's looking good so far. I'd keep an eye on that overflow, though. It doesn't take a whole lot of detritus to clog up 100 microns.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:46 PM
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 Originally Posted by Umm_fish?
It's looking good so far. I'd keep an eye on that overflow, though. It doesn't take a whole lot of detritus to clog up 100 microns.
Good point! I could always try a larger micron, but for now I'm thinking I'll just make 3 or 4 strips and rinse them out when needed. At the moment I'm trying to decide how I want to open up the jug for access from the top once inside the tank. It seems clear I'm going to need to get my whole arm in there, just so I can glue the jug in place, but maybe not. I'm trying to approach this without assumption, so well see what I come up with. How much access would be needed otherwise? Might it be possible to just place a small hole on top, large enough for some vinyl tubing, and use that to siphon things out? I have a good idea as to how I want to design the screen separator, but what micron do I need for sexy larvae? I'll need to replace it later with the proper micron for BVN.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Sunday, March 27, 2011 7:28 PM
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Well, you still haven't explained how you are going to make the kreisel, so it's hard to answer your question. But with anything to do with larvae there will be times that you will want to clean every surface, both with the larvae inside and not. So I would leave as much access as possible.
I was in the right place at the right time last week and got my family invited for a backstage tour of the aquarium at the Denver zoo. The guy who invited us also happened to be the guy that raises all of their fish larvae. He had constructed an absolutely enormous kreisel out of a huge piece of PVC pipe (probably 1.5'-2' in diameter) that he found on one of the zoo's construction sites for their h. erectus rearing program. That was really cool to see. He just sandwiched it between two pieces of acrylic and used screws (that were pretty darn rusty at this point) to hold it in place and had the whole thing in a shallow (4-6") bath. I wish we'd had more time so I could pick his brains more.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Sunday, March 27, 2011 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Umm_fish?
Well, you still haven't explained how you are going to make the kreisel, so it's hard to answer your question. But with anything to do with larvae there will be times that you will want to clean every surface, both with the larvae inside and not. So I would leave as much access as possible.
I was in the right place at the right time last week and got my family invited for a backstage tour of the aquarium at the Denver zoo. The guy who invited us also happened to be the guy that raises all of their fish larvae. He had constructed an absolutely enormous kreisel out of a huge piece of PVC pipe (probably 1.5'-2' in diameter) that he found on one of the zoo's construction sites for their h. erectus rearing program. That was really cool to see. He just sandwiched it between two pieces of acrylic and used screws (that were pretty darn rusty at this point) to hold it in place and had the whole thing in a shallow (4-6") bath. I wish we'd had more time so I could pick his brains more.
That's an interesting story. I had considered using pvc in a similar manner, but I didn't like the thought of trying to cut pieces out of it for the screen and such. I simply don't have those kind of tools. There is a link in my third post to the kreisel design I am basing this one on, but I'm also trying to improve upon it at the same time. I see what you are saying about needing to get into it for cleaning, but the jug isn't really thick enough for a reclosable top. The one I'm basing this on simply cuts the top portion off to make an upturned 'C'. Whereas I'd prefer to keep the circular shape whole. I'll have to give it more thought. Thanks for the help.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Sunday, March 27, 2011 11:30 PM
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Sunday, March 27, 2011 11:43 PM
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Link
Originally Posted by Coastie 1) If you breed sexies I want some.
2) This is cool
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Monday, March 28, 2011 12:09 AM
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Link
Originally Posted by Dizzle21 :welcome:
Welcome to the forum thank you for actually posting something worth reading. subscribing to this thread can wait to see how everything goes i hope for the best!!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Monday, March 28, 2011 1:13 AM
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For what it's worth, dremels do a pretty good job with pvc. And, the reason I brought up the cleaning bit was that when I was working on seahorses in goldfish bowl kreisels I had a heck of a time keeping them clean. And that's with a big, open top. I haven't done Thor, though, so your experience might be entirely different.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Monday, March 28, 2011 2:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Umm_fish?
For what it's worth, dremels do a pretty good job with pvc. And, the reason I brought up the cleaning bit was that when I was working on seahorses in goldfish bowl kreisels I had a heck of a time keeping them clean. And that's with a big, open top. I haven't done Thor, though, so your experience might be entirely different.
Ohhh... I think I've seen your videos. I'm honored to have you in my thread. Realize, I'm a realist when it comes to my chances of completing the full breeding cycle of BVN. I mean I'm having a lot of fun doing this and I'm absolutely serious about my goal, but this isn't a battle for a one man army. I'm trying to spread the bug just as much as I'm trying to find the cure. Together, we can do this. You don't have to have a Ph.D, because the Ph.D's are just as clueless when it comes to the BVN cue. It's simply a matter of trial and error. So the more people we have trying, the closer we get to the goal. I like this kreisel design for now, because it's simple and effective. I'm attempting to provide a 'how to' as I find the right materials that anyone can easily get a hold of. Once I've learned a few things building this kreisel and breeding sexy-shrimp, then I'll want a more advanced design. In the mean time, I want to make this design as good as it can be.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis
Monday, March 28, 2011 9:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Ohhh... I think I've seen your videos. I'm honored to have you in my thread. Oh, I'm just some dude. Seriously. I haven't done much of anything.
Originally Posted by Once I've learned a few things building this kreisel and breeding sexy-shrimp, then I'll want a more advanced design. In the mean time, I want to make this design as good as it can be. Well, do know that apparently a lot of the big-time commercial breeders have given up on kreisels except in special circumstances. Too expensive to build in both materials and manpower and too hard to keep clean. Supposedly, the way they are all going is essentially black, round tubs. The shrimp guys are using specially-built (fiberglass) containers that are rounded cones at the bottom. I've never seen anything commercially made that are close to those except maybe smooth 5 gal. water bottles, and those are too small. Straight-sided cones apparently don't work with shrimp: the water dynamics are wrong and wind up breaking appendages off the kiddos. I have a graphic around here somewhere and I'll try to dig it up if you'd like.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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