Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis

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Whys Alives
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:36 PM
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Quote Originally Posted by TheUnfocusedOne
No updates?
:Le sad...:

No change, but thanks for asking.

I'm giving Plucky his chance with the 3 females.  If there's no change soon, I'll get a few more shrimp and put any extra males in the display tank.

I know how you feel.  I'm eager to get things moving along myself.  As it is tho, I nearly lost the refugium on my kreisel.  I never got around to drilling an anti-siphon hole on the HOB unit and was doing a water change.  The HOB ran dry and the heater ran hot.  I was lucky in that I only lost the magnetic clips and the heater itself.  One side of the HOB is now slightly distorted from the heat, but no cracks or leaks, so it's all good.

Went ahead and drilled that anti-siphon hole.

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Quote Originally Posted by TheUnfocusedOne
Uh oh.
You be careful, I won't be happy if you break this stuff  -_- .

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Whys Alives
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Wednesday, December 7, 2011 8:55 AM
 

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Quote Originally Posted by pj86
Updates?
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Quote Originally Posted by TheUnfocusedOne
:unsure: Where'd you go?

Still here. I answered Pj in one of his threads.

It seems pretty clear I'm gonna need to try a few changes. Maybe add some more liverock to the breeder and pick up a few more shrimp. Maybe try rotating a few of them between the breeder and the display tank to see whether it's either an environmental issue in the breeder or a pairing issue for the shrimp. Don't know if I'll do any of it before the holidays tho, sorry.

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Quote Originally Posted by pismo_reefer
I don't know whether to call you a genius, or insane.... I'll be watching to see where this madness end's up.

The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

"Sanity" is defined by our shared notions of reality. But given the complete lack of an ontological certainty, such shared notions are no more than "popular" in origin. For example, you probably believe in an absolute reality as the source of all our experiences. I don't believe that. After all, it's an assumption.

Moving on.

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Quote Originally Posted by pj86
 One thing I did do was add a 5:3:2 ratio mixture of phytofeast : rotifeast : oyster feast to the tank. About a few hours later they were mating. Don't know if this initiated spawning or just a coincidence.

That sounds like really good advice. It's time I started playing with cultures anyway. Which would be easier to start with, phyto or rotifers? And what's oyster feast?

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Quote Originally Posted by TheUnfocusedOne
No need to be sorry, just checking in. This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in a while; I'm anxious to see some success. I'm sure you'll figure out the problem. Best of luck!

Thanks.

Truth is, there are a number of things I could and should try. Once the holidays have past, I will try them all in earnest.
  • * More shrimp.
  • * More liverock.
  • * More plankton.
  • * Display tank rotations.
  • * Soft corals for the breeder.

    Anything to add?

    A few updates... Overloading the breeder with display tank water was not a good idea. The breeder has less filtration capacity and was being overwhelmed, resulting in a lot of algae. I'll aim for a couple quarts a week instead.

    Running the flatworm culture dish skimmerless was also not a good idea. A Hydor Koralia Nano was added a few weeks ago and is working well. Point of note: even a small ammonia cycle will completely wipe out convolutriloba retrogemma. Can't help but wonder if FWE isn't just diluted ammonia.

    Is it possible 400w is too much light for flatworms? Results so far have suggested it, but not conclusively.

    Anyway, that's that for now. Happy holidays to all and thank you for taking part in my reality!
     
    <message edited by Whys Alives on Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:14 AM>
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:28 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by mndfreeze
    screw more shrimp, BRING ON THE BLUE VELVETS.  That's why I'm really here.  

    I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the shrimp are an essential proof-of-concept.  Their current lack of breeding indicates something is still missing, or not yet in balance with the environment.  Given that Blue Velvets are much more difficult to obtain, near impossible to keep fed, and don't live for very long, I think it's better I experiment with the shrimp for now.

    The kreisel is well cycled and I've been getting some practice cleaning it.  The Chaeto really does help keep the film algae down.  The flatworm culture dish isn't ready yet and still needs a few things before it is.  Can really use some practice cultivating plankton in the mean time.  So basically, there is plenty for me to do right now while I progressively inch my way to the grand finale.

    Can growing plankton be made interesting?  Hmm...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mndfreeze
    Yes, but its my job to come in your thread every few pages and harrass you more to make sure you stay on target with the heavy ADHD and slight ####zophrenia you exhibit symptoms from.

    I can help you aquire blue velvets, roughly 20 a pop (yes, kind of pricey) but maybe cheaper if a certain number are purchased.  I've loved em since I started this hobby and got my first flatworm.  Took me months to find em, but now I have sources!

    Well, I might be a bit biased too, since I was a defender champion of sexy shrimp until they started eating all my LPS after I swore how perfectly behaved mine were. ;/  Just ignore I said that last part and focus on the awesomeness of blue velvets and hurry F up!

    Sounds reasonable.  Glad to have you in my corner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metrokat
    fun thread. amazing DIY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheUnfocusedOne
    I get excited every time I see this thread pop up.
     :naughtydance:

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    Quote Originally Posted by huskerduck
    In my 20+ years of SW, I've known some people that have a lot of fun with their systems but..........
    You sir, seem to be enjoying yourself beyond any rationality and its glorious. I need an Sec8nds and coke to celebrate this thread full of win

    Thanks.

    --------

    Breeder Update...

    I've added 1 medium female, 1 small female, and 2 medium males, for a total of:
    5 females & 2 males.

    I've also added an auto-top-off.



    And the RO/DI is connected directly to tap.



    Not only has this eliminated salinity fluctuations, but now that evap isn't a concern, I can safely displace water with more live rock.

    When I added the new shrimp, I noticed the older shrimp had lost some color.  This is my first nano tank, and I think I've just been too stingy with feeding.  Now that the breeder has matured, I'll try more feedings.

    Kreisel Update...

    Adding the Chaeto to the HOB has had the intended impact of keeping the inner drum largely clean of film algae.  I dipped the Chaeto in CoralRx at 4x-dosage and 2x-duration.  I have since detected a single Vermetid snail in the HOB.



    Flatworm Culture...

    I've added a nice 20 pound boulder of Fiji live rock to keep parameters balanced.



    It needed it.  Red Planaria are surprisingly sensitive.

    Drum Roll...

    I'm not going to jink it this time, so....


     
    Happy dance!
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:29 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evanski9
    Hell yes! Yes yes yes best day of my life yes!!! omgomgomg :happydance: omgomgomg :happydance: omgomgomg :happydance: omgomgomg :happydance: :happydance: omgomgomg    


    I've been watching this the whole time and I'm so happy

    Last night I figured I had a few days to clean out the kreisel drum and brush up on larva feeding.  So imagine my disappointment when upon checking the breeder, the female no longer looked pregnant.  What the heck?  Is she stuffing her bra?  Did she gorge herself and just looked fat?  Was it gas?  *Sigh*...

    Aww man... detritus collecting on the surface again... --hey, that bit moved!

    I don't know why, but most of the larvae were stuck to the water surface.  Still wiggling tho, so I collected as many as I could find.  There are now somewhere between 8 and a dozen in the kreisel.  Much too small to photograph, so I sacrificed one for science.

    Thor Ambionensis Larvae

     
    Oh so sexy!
     
    So umm... anybody know how to care for these things?
     
    I honestly haven't a clue, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.  Hey Pj, How long before they starve?


    Oh yeah, and one more thing...
    BOOM SHAKA LAKA LAKA BOOM SHAKA LAKA !!!
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    Umm_fish?
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:45 PM
    Start with copepods and/or BBS, from what I've heard. Good luck!
    --Andy, the bucket man.
    "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Friday, January 20, 2012 11:37 AM
    I found more larvae in the sump and now have a total somewhere close to 20 in the kriesel.  I know they're alive because I can see their little wannabe legs shimmering as they try to swim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Umm_fish?
    Start with copepods and/or BBS, from what I've heard. Good luck! 

     
    Pj is right, btw.  These larvae are really quite resilient.  I've been fairly abusive in my first collecting of them, with no obvious injuries or deaths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pj86
    Congrats, they wont starve. It took me about a day and half to begin feeding mine because I didn't have a culture of brine shrimp ready. They will immediately accept the brine shrimp.
    Cool micro photo of the larvae


    Oh... they could... :/

    All I had on hand was my little 6g bottle of eggs that I've been meaning to do a practice run with.  Well I never got around to that, and to make matters worse, a huge load of snow dump on us over the last few nights and the roads aren't all plowed yet.  So I ordered a big can of eggs online, but they won't arrive until Tuesday.

    In the mean time, I've had my fingers crossed with the few eggs I have.  I probably didn't decapsulate long enough and I know I've been hatching at low temp (it gets cold in my basement at night), so it took an extra day for the eggs to hatch.  This morning I was relieved to see they had finally hatched and began feeding in earnest.

    I don't know how many to put in there.  I must have put in somewhere close to 1000.  Little bits of black pepper everywhere. :]

    I didn't see the act of capture, but I did definitely see a few of the larvae holding a BBS with its legs, presumably devouring it.

    So it seems the only thing standing between me and BVN now, is my mastery of sea monkeys.

    How many sea monkeys, how often?
    <message edited by Whys Alives on Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:02 PM>
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Monday, January 23, 2012 10:43 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheUnfocusedOne
    Have you checked out Calvin's thread? He's breeding sexies with great success. Might be worth looking into.
    Seeing this thread pop up made my day btw  :happy:


    Yeah, I'm being intentionally lazy.  Hey, it's been nearly a year now and I've finally hit a real mile stone.  But  good advice, just missing the link: Calvin415's Sexy Shrimp Breeding Adventure

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanGreenEyes
    Quote Originally Posted by

    "As luck would have it, she put her tail end right up against the front glass, so I got out my 30x Micronta hand-held microscope and managed to get a good focus.  Obviously, I can't take photos with my Micronta, so I've provided an artistic rendering of what I saw."I'm totally stoked.


    ^^^^Invert porn! You perv...lol.
    Read the whole thread...very interesting.  Following this...you will definitely be crowned evil genius when (not if) you successfully pull this off.  Good luck... B)


    ♪ dunt duh-DUH! ♫


    Last night I counted 11 larvae still in the kreisel.  Checked it this morning and could only find 5.  The problem is likely starvation, as I haven't had the brine shrimp eggs for proper feeding density.  The remaining larvae do appear a little larger and more shrimp like in shape, but no eye stalks yet that I can see.

    Regarding feeding density, I found the following information posted on marinebreeder.org

    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by
    I always stick to around 5 bbs/mL. Usually not more than 7 bbs/ml.

    How does one measure the density of bbs/mL?

    Draw a 1mL water sample using a syringe and count the no. of bbs in it. Do this 3 times and get the average.


    My concentration has been closer to 3 or 2  BBS/mL and I noticed the BBS are growing up, likely proving a greater challenge to catch and eat.  But I won't have more brine shrimp eggs for a few more days, so this batch of larvae probably won't make it.  Fortunately...

    I have another pregnant female!  She got right up against the glass and I was able to look with my micronta again.  This time there is no doubt about what I saw as she lifted and rotated each one: spherical little yolk sacks with large eyes.



    Hopefully this second batch will grow large enough that I'll be able to get a few larvae on video.
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Monday, January 30, 2012 11:32 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whys
    Hmmm.... :/

    Checked the breeder this morning and found 2 larvae on the water surface.  I could find no others anywhere else and haven't a clue which female these came from.  I don't believe they came from the one I identified with eggs.  Do smaller females simply produce smaller clutches?

    Then I found one of the 2 males in the overflow box and put him back in the tank without a second thought.  Not 10 minutes later, I came back to find a female plucking the eyeballs from his corpse.  My only theory is that he had escaped into the overflow box and upon returning him to the tank, the other male killed him.  Is that possible?

    I still have larvae in the kreisel, but food all gone.

    Anyway, just a little confused and wanting brine shrimp eggs!

     
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Tuesday, January 31, 2012 4:50 AM
    So Jade, Amber, and I have been monkey'n around every day for the last week!  ...It's been awesome. =)

    I have 6 larvae remaining in the kreisel.  I had more than I thought the last time I gave a count, but their number has steadily decreased over time and I'm confident 6 is the current total.  Not too bad I suppose, given that I more or less starved them for the first week.  Now I have a nice supply of eggs from brineshrimpegg.com.

    No need to decapsulate these as far as I can tell; their hatch-rate is excellent all on their own.  Of course, I've been sure to try and give them ideal conditions.

    As I've mentioned before, it gets cold in my basement at night, requiring an extra 24 hours for the eggs to hatch.  So I picked up a 14g plastic bin from Lowes, threw in a spare heater, a Koralia Nano, and some tap water.  Now even if the air temp drops to 55 degrees, my babies stay an ideal 78-79.  Also, that's a 2x24w T5 HO fixture, currently running a single 6500K bulb.  I won't need the second bulb until I switch to phyto.


    Jade is the tall one.

    As you can imagine, things have been getting really wild!  Jade and Amber both said they just can't get enough of Julian's Thing!

    Brought to us by Two Little Fishes, this thing is an ideal bit of intellectual inspiration.  Much of what makes it such a pleasure, requires actually feeling it to understand, but to put it plainly, it's perfect.



    That's a 1mm opening on the tip and the plunger gives you unimaginable control.

    Make'n babies!



    When the water is still, the egg shells float and the nauplii sink.  They will also be drawn to light, so disconnect the air pump, place a small light near the bottom of the bottle, and let sit for a couple of minutes.  At the very bottom will be any unhatched eggs, so insert the extractor until it touches bottom, then raise it up half an inch, and extract.

    Measuring feeding density isn't as easy as it sounds.  The problem is, density in the kreisel is neither uniform, nor constant.  I did my best to achieve what I believed to be a density of 5bbs/mL in the kreisel's inner drum, then from there, determined an approximate minimum measurement of eggs I would need each day.  Mostly it was trial and error, but didn't take long to narrow down.  Now I just keep to my measuring spoon while I refine my collection technique such that I use nearly all the brine shrimp I hatch.  This way, I can just measure the eggs instead of the density, and adjust as needed.

    BTW, If you're wondering what 5bbs/mL looks like, it's roughly equal to 1.5 ****-storms.

    Brine Shrimp Egg, Baby, and Adult  (napulii) 


    Brine shrimp grow quickly, and they won't find much to eat.  This means the older they are, the less nutrition they have to offer.  See that orange stuff?  That's nature's goodness and the baby is packed full of it.

    What?  Not sexy enough for you?



    This video was taken on the 23rd (a week ago) and the larvae don't have eye stalks yet.
     

     
    Today, their eye stalks are barely noticeable to the naked eye.  I've also been able to use a small light to draw one to the front glass and get a detailed look with my Micronta.

    Wow! Got to watch it pluck a BBS right out of the water and devour it. Very cool...

    Speaking of small lights, it's useful to have a small continuous light over the top opening on the kreisel.  This helps to draw the larvae away from the tank walls and into the ****-storm.  I recommend a Marina Betta Kit LED Light.



    It's the right intensity, as too bright might grow algae, and fully submersible, never a bad idea.  Rigging it up might take figuring out, but two toothpicks and a zip-tie did the trick for me.

    ----------

    I wish I knew where these larvae are with regards to development.  Did the under feeding stunt their growth in the beginning?  If it did, should they have since caught up, or does it push the due date back?  Do two week old larvae have a better survival rate than newly hatched?  What are the odds I might settle one of the remaining 6 sometime in the next two weeks?  I'm not counting on it, but that sure would be grand.
    <message edited by Whys Alives on Wednesday, February 1, 2012 1:59 PM>
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    Whys Alives
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Tuesday, February 7, 2012 11:55 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryDD


    doing it in the hot tub!!




    Of the original 20 larvae placed in the kreisel on January 18th, only 1 now remains.  I call him Big Stalks because its eye stalks are now clearly visible from a distance.

    Big Stalks exhibits differences in motion as well, now swimming with a considerable amount of control while making tight corkscrew or loop-da-loops in one direction or another.

    If I can manage to keep him for another 7 days, there's a real chance he'll settle.

    Also, another pregnant female should be due soon.  This is one of my larger females and might have produced the first large clutch, so I'm hoping for another 20 or so.  Given that success only ever exists as a percentage of the original total, the bigger the clutch, the better my odds.

    Sea Monkeys are fun!  Why would anyone ever stop doing this?
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Monday, February 13, 2012 3:36 PM
    Just a quick update...

    I believe Big Stalks actually went missing a few days ago and I've been mistaking the identify of a slightly younger larvae that molted and began to look like Big Stalks.  Point being, no settlement.

    Not certain Big Stalks was as close to settlement as he should have been anyway.  He was certainly bigger and his eye stalks were well pronounced, but compared to Pj's imminent settlement video, I'd say he was the equivalent of a normal 2 and a half week larvae.  Thus I'm concluding that while the larvae are capable of surviving brief stints of under or no feeding, it does appear to slow or even halt their development.

    I was feeding every 24 hours (not a bad way to start out), but have switched to every 12.  The younger the babies the better, because they change significantly only 12 hours after hatching.  So if you assume the first eggs begin to hatch at 18 hours and the majority at 24, then your oldest babies should be no more than 6 hours old at time of feeding.

    I've been feeding at 11am and 11pm.  This definitely helps the kreisel maintain a more consistent density between feedings as well.

    My female did in fact release approximately 20 larvae on Feb 9.  Half of them have already disappeared from the kreisel.  I haven't any theories as to why so many immediately failed this time, but the remainder seem to be doing well.

    Pj, is 20 larvae a "normal" sized clutch for a mature healthy female?

    Umm_fish?, I no longer believe an air-driven sponge-filter is sufficient.  All these BBS every 12 hours really add up, and their lifeless corpses have turned my refugium a field of pink.  I do about a 3% water change daily, and about 10 to 15% water change once I see my ammonia creeping up (about once a week).  Why only 3% daily?  Because that's the volume of my canister.  Simply giving it a dump and refill is actually the most convenient way to do a water change on the kreisel, but I might have to start doing larger daily water changes.  We'll see.

    Side note: when I decided what males and females to place in the breeder, I ended up with 3 small less viable males that I placed in my display tank.  Today, one of them is female and I suspect "she" is pregnant.  Yep!  If they're still young enough, Sexy shrimp can change their sex.  It took about 3 weeks from initial onset of changes.
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    EasterEggs
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Monday, February 13, 2012 7:16 PM
    I just read through your entire thread - very entertaining indeed, and well documented!  I'm trying my hand with Lysmata boggessi Peppermint shrimp, and not having a whole lot of luck.  I have been using cylindrical vessels and fish bowls.  I discovered the same Betta LED light as you, and use this above my vessels, it makes a big difference!  Someone on here suggested doing daily 100% waterchanges which has made a big difference in the length I have been able to keep them alive, although this gives me plenty of opportunity to damage the larvae.  How are you working around this?

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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Thursday, February 16, 2012 2:51 AM
    I'm using a 3.5 inch sugar-fine-quartz sand bed in a HOB refugium.
     
    Today, my Ammonia alert badge is edging its way to an "alert", but not quite there yet.  We'll see how the next few days go.  In the mean time, nitrite and nitrate are currently undetectable.
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:47 AM
    Ryan, fwiw I've found those badges to be rather inaccurate.  I like them as an alert, but I find the ammonia level is close to 10x what it says on the alert when I test with a kit in comparison.  So any time I see a slight change on the alert I make sure I am remedying the situation.
     
    Also, I just noticed you said that there is no need to de-cap your BS eggs because you are getting a good hatch rate.  Imo, the most important benefit of de-capping the eggs is the resulting sterilization.  BS eggs are known to be very "dirty", and often bring in hydroids for one.

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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:02 PM
    I've never read of hydroid infested brine shrimp eggs before.  Thank you for that information.
     
    I did decapsulate my very first batch, just for the experience.  But all the reasons I read for doing it had to do with calorie use and excess metabolites.  While neither reason sounds like a bad idea, for my own approach, I'm just not certain it's necessary.  Or at least, not necessary at this time.
     
    Hydroids in my kreisel?  {shrug}  There is simply no means I know of by which to gently remove the larvae from the breeder and insert them into the kreisel without moving over a small amount of water from the breeder.  Yes, it's a small amount, but it adds up with every larvae moved.  The way I see it, if I'm going to get hydroids, then I'm going to get hydroids.  Should that happen, then it will be time to consider my options.  I could be wrong, but the brine shrimp eggs just don't strike me as the greater of the threats.
     
    That said, how do you go about decapsulating?  I've found more than one recommendation for duration, for both rehydration and decapsulation.  I don't want to under-do the former or over-do the latter.  What numbers do you use?
     
    As to the Ammonia badge, I am aware, but I don't need it to be accurate.  I just need to know if there's an alert.  If there's an alert, I do a water change.  If there's still an alert, I do another.  If it gets worse instead of better, then something is out of balance, and that's all I really need to know.  The severity of the imbalance isn't that significant, unless it kills my larvae, in which case, I know I hit a red line.
     
    My hope is that I can balance the system such that I can add my BBS daily without so much as an alert, then do about a 20% weekly water change.  I'm pretty sure the sand bed can handle it.  The only question is what to do about the BBS corpses slowly accumulating inside the kreisel drum.  Algae growth inside the drum tells me I'll need to address those at least twice a week I think.
     
    Thanks again for the important info.  I will add it to my ruminations.
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:03 PM
    For decapping I use one of those San Francisco Bay hatcheries to hydrate for 1 hour in clean saltwater.  Then I strain the water out, and add undiluted bleach in the hatchery they bubble away.  I make sure to swirl the hatchery a few times to knock the ones off the sides and into the bleach.  I don't time the bleaching, I go by color.  When the mix goes from brown to orange-brown I use a small spoon and scoop some eggs to look at.  If there are about 10% that are clear, and I can't see any brown ones then I am done.  If there are no clear ones yet then I go for another minute or so.
     
    Regarding hydroids, the hydroid eggs(?) hitch a ride on the shell of the BS eggs.  I believe the can introduce bacteria as well which can challenge the health of fragile larvae.  It is good practice to decap BS eggs.
     
    The BS corpses in the kriesel are likely shells from them molting I think...?
     
    You use the ammonia alert the same way I do. 

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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:49 PM
    Okay, you've convinced me!  Lately I've just been loath to add to the process, but I'll try to include decapsulation soon.  I like your approach of waiting for a few clear ones.  That makes a lot of sense.  Thanks for the help.
     
    Could be molts.  I didn't think to look at them under the scope, but I will the next time I clean them out.  But then, where do all the dead ones go?  The larvae couldn't possibly be eating them all.
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Friday, February 17, 2012 1:20 PM
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by pj86
    Whys, very cool you are making progress. The largest clutch I had was one of about 150-200. I would suggest increasing feeding for the female.

    Good to know!  I've started feeding twice a day.  Might as well, I have to feed the larvae anyway.
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    EasterEggs
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Friday, February 17, 2012 7:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Whys Alives
    Okay, you've convinced me!  Lately I've just been loath to add to the process, but I'll try to include decapsulation soon.  I like your approach of waiting for a few clear ones.  That makes a lot of sense.  Thanks for the help.

     
    Woohoo!  You can store decapped eggs in the fridge for weeks too, so you can decap quite a few on each go.  Just mix enough saltwater to cover the eggs plus 1/2" or so, and then mix as much salt mix as you can into the saltwater to the point when it doesn't really want to dissolve anymore.  Pour that over the decapped eggs and they will last at least a month.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whys Alives
    Could be molts.  I didn't think to look at them under the scope, but I will the next time I clean them out.  But then, where do all the dead ones go?  The larvae couldn't possibly be eating them all.

     
    What makes you think the BS are dying?  Why would they die when the shrimp larvae are still living?

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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 3:12 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by pj86
    I would suggest increasing feeding for the female.

    That did the trick!  I must have at least 50 larvae in the kriesel as of last night.
     

    Some tips for hatching brine shrimp...

    Temp, temp, temp, and bright light.  Before extraction, I place a bright light at the base of the reactor, cover the sides with black plastic (aquarium backing), and wait for a few minutes, but no more than 10 so they don't suffocate each other.  Proper water temp makes a huge difference in the hatch rate within a 24 hour period, and a bright light really improves concentration during extraction, as they are attracted to it.  Eliminating ambient light inside the reactor also helps.

    Also, if you're thinking about becoming a marine breeder, know that baby brine shrimp will become a daily, if not twice daily, ritual.  Every... single... day.  Success is a matter of lifestyle.  I now hatch them more consistently than I brush my teeth.

    You have to make the time, but It's not hard once you get into the rhythm.  Another month of this and I'll be doing it in my sleep.
    <message edited by Whys Alives on Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:02 PM>
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Friday, February 24, 2012 8:11 PM
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by EasterEggs
     Woohoo!  You can store decapped eggs in the fridge for weeks too, so you can decap quite a few on each go.  Just mix enough saltwater to cover the eggs plus 1/2" or so, and then mix as much salt mix as you can into the saltwater to the point when it doesn't really want to dissolve anymore.  Pour that over the decapped eggs and they will last at least a month. 
    What makes you think the BS are dying?  Why would they die when the shrimp larvae are still living? 

    Starvation?  It's a decent question, I just haven't looked into it so far.


    Quick update...

    I had another female release larvae last night.  They seem to really prefer releasing at night.  Anyway, I now have something like 100+ larvae in the kreisel.  Woohoo!

    Also, my ammonia alert is edging up again, but my saltwater just started mixing and it needs another 24 hours to off gas.  Lets hope they can wait a day.
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    EasterEggs
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Saturday, February 25, 2012 4:42 PM
    Yes, starvation would cause death of the BS.  Have you considered also adding either live or preserved phyto to feed the BS?  Easier to just remove them though...  using half starved BS couldn't be very nutritious.

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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:01 AM
    Size matters.
     
    I assume they're starving, but I haven't looked into it because it makes more sense to hatch daily anyway.  Freshly hatched BBS are not only more nutritious, but easier for the larvae to catch and hang on to.  While supplementing the BBS is certainly a clever idea, the fact is, once I've moved onto cultures such as rotifers, I'll just use them to feed the larvae directly.  BBS are just a starting point for me, because they're easier and less prone to crash.
     
    Also, you have to realize, I'm running a continuous system.  If the BBS didn't die of starvation, they'd eventually die of old age.  My breeder produce a new clutch of larvae before the previous clutch dies off, thus I'm continually adding new larvae to the kreisel without a reset.
     
    At the moment, I'm not bothering to remove the BBS.  Instead, I'm bringing my sand bed up to speed so the bacteria can eat it all.  Today I had to do a 50% water change tho, so it's not up to speed just yet.  What is actually of greater concern to me is that it's driving algae growth inside the kreisel drum.  The Chaeto in the fuge is supposed to take care of that, but with this much nitrification taking place, the light fixture is insufficient for the Chaeto to absorb it all.
     
    I'm developing a real dislike of normal-output T5 fixtures. :/
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Sunday, February 26, 2012 8:55 AM
    Daily bottom siphoning to remove dead BS?
     
    Sorry if I already posted this, but have you seen this?
    Broodstock and Larval Nutrition of Marine Ornamental Shrimp by Junda Lin, Dong Zhang and Andrew L. Rhyne.  Btw, Rhyne is "spawner" on MOFIB.  I don't think it mentions Sexy shrimp, though it is something to go on. 

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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Sunday, March 18, 2012 8:51 PM
    22 days post hatch, 2 larvae remaining.
     
     
    The Good
     
    TrueLumen Pro 8000K 24" LED x2

     

     
    At 3 LEDs & 1 watt per inch, this thing is brighter than T5-HO or even PCs of equivalent length.  I could probably get by with just one, but why not two?  I've lashed them together with some eggcrate and fishing line.
     

     
    Yep, this will finally give my stunted Chaeto ample light in the fuge and stop that annoying algae from growing inside the kreisel.  About that algae...
     
     
    The Bad
     

     
    It's ugly, invasive, wiry, and fast growing.  It seems to require next to no light and creeps across surfaces with a web of ivy like "roots" that cling.  It doesn't come off easily and always leaves some "roots" behind.  It's terrible.
     
    Ahh... but now I can relax, confident in the knowledge that my new LEDs will --Hey!  How'd that cute little jelly fish get in here?
     
    Huh... time to take a closer look at that algae...

    {click}

     
    That can't be right.  Lets try video...






















     
    The Beautiful
     

     
    Colonial Hydroids

     
    Hydroid Medusa

     

    Hydroids can sting and kill the larvae.  They're also competing for the same food supply: baby brine shrimp.  They have a complex life cycle and can go dormant, making them near impossible to erradicate.
     

     
    Narg... only two known methods for killing these things.  One only works half the time and the other entails significant consequences.
     

    Heat treatment
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by
    Some types of hydroids can be eradicated from the aquarium by raising the water temperature to 92°F or above for period of 3-5 days (Liisa Coit, pers. com.). Keep all of the filters and equipment operating so that the hot water circulates throughout them and destroys any hydroids or hydromedusae that may be present in the filtration system. (Seahorses and their tankmates, including snails and the cleanup crew, must be removed to a temporary holding tank while the heat treatment is carried out.) Maintaining the water temperature at 92° for this period does not harm the beneficial nitrifying bacteria in your biofilter, injure marine plants or macroalgae, or kill off copepods and other beneficial microfauna (Liisa Coit, pers.com.).

    After the treatment period, perform a large water change to assure that the die off of hydroids does not degrade your water quality, and adjust the water temperature back to normal, and all the animals can be returned to the aquarium. The tank will not undergo a "mini cycle" and there will be no ammonia or nitrite spikes (Liisa Coit, pers. com.).

    However, not all types of hydroids respond to the heat treatment method of eradication. The snowflake type of hydroids that are all too common seem to have no difficulty surviving the heat treatment. So generally speaking, then Panacur is a more reliable way to eliminate them. Some folks might describe the snowflake type of hydroids as "fuzzy starfish," in which case the heat treatment may not be effective. If you're fuzzy hydroids do not resemble snowflakes, then there is an decent chance that the heat treatment will be effective.


    Panacur
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by
    Your best weapon against hydroids is a drug called Fenbendazole (Panacur). However, you should familiarize yourself thoroughly with this drug before using, or better yet, talk to your veterinarian first. Reeftools and its colleagues can not be held responsible for any result of you reading this blog and using Fenbendazole. Personally, I’ve used this drug safely with dwarf seahorses and Fundulus heteroclitus Killifish. I’ve read that it can be safely used with other fish fry such as Clownfish. In low doses it can be safe for clean up crews such as Nassarius snails, cleaner shrimp, and hermit crabs. Be careful and do lots of research before using Fenbendazole.

    Any living creatures or plants you want to add to your dwarf seahorse or fry tank should be treated with Fenbendazole first. Keep in mind, most invertebrates and corals DO NOT tolerate Fenbendazole and will die. Macroalgae such as Caulerpa and Chaetomorpha as well as the beneficial nitrifying bacteria in live rock handle treatment with the drug very well. Fenbendazole is by no stretch of the imagination considered to be reef safe. So don’t dose your reef tank with this stuff. Fenbendazole also tends to absorb into glass and rock, leaching into your tank forever. The granules seem to leach worse than the liquid does.


     
    The Ugly

    On March 9th, I had my largest larvae hatch yet!  100+.  Too bad I didn't have a good home for them and had to let them go. :/

    0 days post hatch


    ...and for comparison...

    22 days post hatch

     
    The magnification is the same at the beginning of both videos.  As we can see, there is a significant difference in size and a few structural changes.  I put the 22-day-old back in the kreisel and he seems fine, but for how long?
     

    Moving On

    Think I'll try the heat treatment first. :]
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    Whys Alives
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:12 PM
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by NancyC

    Look at that!  This is the kind of thread I really enjoy stumbling upon.  Subscribed.
    You're too kind.
     
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by pj86

    You are making great progress. Any updates?
    Nothing useful. Tongue
     
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by ShrimpyPooh
    why,
    im a little concerned about the state of my females eggs. im begining to think they r duds. can females carry eggs that arent fertilized?. most of the eggs seem light in color to whitish for my liking and im not entirely sure i see any babies in them. sometimes i think i see a little dot in some but for the most part nothing really. have u had any experience with this happening?. i noticed them carrying the eggs on 4/22 and today is the 26th. could they just not be very far along yet thats why im not really seeing anything yet?. i hear they carrying the eggs around 2-3 weeks?.
    That's an excellent question, but I'm guessing probably not.  I've had females produce very small clutches before, but no obvious duds.  I've also heard of females ejecting their eggs early when they give up on them.  So if they're still tucked away and swelling up, they'll probably hatch.  Takes about two weeks.
     
    Here's a decent resource for times, durations, and ETAs: PJ86's Thor Amboinensis Breeding Journal
     
    I haven't had the opportunity to look at an egg under the scope, but I have gotten a look thru the tank glass with my micronta hand held.  Occasionally a female will adjust and rotate the eggs, lifting them one at a time.  They are in fact mostly transparent, but appear red while tucked under the tail.  They start out mostly round with a pair of black dots for eyes and elongate into an oval as they grow.  By the time they're ready to pop, they look like shrink-wrapped pollywogs.
     

     
    *Note: throughout this thread I have accidentally transposed the first 'o' and 'i' in "amboinensis".  As some of these typos appear in photo or video, they can no longer be corrected.
     
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by chippwalters

    Yup. Fascinating stuff! Following along...

    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by ShrimpyPooh
    cool, thanks for the info. their bottoms do appear to be getting fatter. i think they r just not as far along thats why i cant see the actual babies inside yet. i do have another question. i plan on adding my brine shrimp eggs directly into my babies tank, do u for see any problems with this?. i know everyone seems to have a seperate hatchery for the brine but i dont really see the need for it. im trying to do things the cheapest easiest way. the only thing i can think of by doing it this way is maybe increasing the waste load but if i siphon the shells out often i think it should be good. thoughts on this please.

    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by Degener8

    the egg casings will foul the water.. bad idea in every direction.. unless you are planning to use decapsulated brine.. then you just have to worry about anything that actually doesnt hatch fouling the water.. imo still a bad idea to add either directly to the rearing tank.
    Use a hatchery.  Or better yet, use two.
     
    Here is a tutorial for what I use, tho it actually works better with identical 1-liter bottles, if you can find them: Triple 2-Liter Plankton Reactor Tutorial.
     
    You want to feed freshly hatched baby brine shrimp every 12 hours, but it takes 24 for the eggs to hatch, so you need to run two hatcheries simultaneously.  Older BBS are not as nutritious and harder for the larvae to catch.
     
    Consider decapsulating the brine shrimp eggs, or buy them decapsulated.  There's more than one good reason to do so.  Also, do a little reading on colonial hydroids.  You'll find a lot of references to "dwarf seahorse" tanks.  Read them, because they're relevant.  Colonial hydroids are easily the second greatest barrier to success.
     
    What's the first?  Feeding BBS every 12 hours, every single day, over and over, until you want to puke.  Pro Tip: learn to like it.
     
    Have you started a thread?  Please link it.
     
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by ShrimpyPooh

    well bad news i guess the eggs must have been duds afterall cause one of my girls shed and her eggs r needless to say gone now and the other one doesnt appear to be carrying anymore either, :/ very strange. but i guess for the best cause looks like ill be needing to save up some money for hacthing bbs equipment. i really was hoping to just add them to the fry tank and just clean the shells out everyday to save on some money...still might try it that way though we'll see.

    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by ShrimpyPooh

    o and at the store around here sells that San Francisco Bay Brine Shrimp Hatchery for 15$!!! can u believe that. thats why i didnt want to buy that and plus the air pump and they told me a heater as well cause the water needs to be at 80degrees for the eggs to hatch... is that true or will they hatch at a lower heat i know it says on packet but wanted to see from yer experence. how many time have yer sexy shrimp bred succesfully?

    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro

    Look up something called Artemia hatchery dish for hatching brine.  I haven't tried it myself but favorable reviews on it.

    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by altolamprologus

    You mean this? It hatches brine so well I swear it's witchcraft. I highly recommend it.

    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro

    Yeah, my cardinal died so I didn't bother with this...  If my clowns spawn I would get it.
     
    Here's some pics from a user review.
     
    http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-...ine-shrimp.html

    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by ShrimpyPooh

    wow that seems like the best and easiest way by far!. will have to look into it more. just discovered one of the females has eggs again i dont know whats going on. ididnt know they could lay more eggs this fast

    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by ShrimpyPooh

    has anyone experienced their sexy shrimp eating their own eggs?. im 98% positive i saw mine eat some of hers today. i also dont think they r getting fertilized is it possible she is producing eggs but the male isnt fertillzing them? im
    It's possible they were fertilized but then abandoned for some other reason.
     
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by ShrimpyPooh

    looks like i see little black eyes in my eggs, hopefully the girls will carry them all the way

    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by iprayforwaves

    Tagging along, I've got 4 sexies in my EcoPico and never thought to look for eggs!
    How many male and female?
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:14 PM
    Well it's been 8 weeks since I stopped adding BBS to the kreisel and started experimenting with the hydroids.  Here is what I have tried so far, in chronological order.
     
    Heat Treatment (93 degrees for 1wk)... fail!
    Flatworm-Exit (2x dosage for 24hr)... fail!
    Ammonia Spike (~0.2ppm)... fail!
    Cold Treatment (68 degrees for 1wk)... fail!
    Starvation (no food for 8wk)... fail!
     
    I refuse to use fenbendazole (aka: Panacur) because it absorbs into then leaches out of rock and glass indefinitely.  While this may be acceptable for some types of larvae (ie: dwarf seahorse), it can still prove fatal to many others.  And tho Thor amboinensis are a resilient species, Chelidonura varians are not.  There is simply no way to predict what effect fenbendazole might have on BVN larvae later on in my research.  I could potentially discover the BVN cue and still fail to settle the larvae due to the presence of fenbendazole leaching from the glass.  Worse still, I'd never know it. :/
     
    Recently, hobbyists have been experimenting with alternative dewormers, such as flubendazole and levamisole, but they all seem to suffer from similar issues to a greater or lesser extent.  Thus their use is unacceptable for my research, with one possible exception: flatworm-exit.
     
    No one is entirely certain what the active ingredient in flatworm-exit is, but there is reason to believe it too is a dewormer.  There is scant evidence of FWE successfully treating hydroids, but at recommended levels it is considered to be mostly reef safe and does not leach into and out of rock and glass.  Thus whatever it is and for whatever it's worth, I consider it safe for experimentation up to 2x dosage.
     
    The cold treatment wasn't really intentional; my heater died.  Due to recent issues with quality control, I no longer recommend Finnex titanium heaters.
     
     
    So.... results?  None to speak of.
     
    While there is some suggestion that FWE may kill the medusa, nothing has had a significant impact on the hydroid colony itself.  It's skinny, but healthy and moving. Narg... :/
     
    In a word: one-tough-son-of-a-bitch!
     
     
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:12 PM
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by pj86

    Take all the water out and let it dry.
    I like the suggestion.  I'm wondering tho, other recommendations I've seen include a full sterilization of the system.  If hydroids can hitch a ride on dehydrated brine shrimp eggs, then could they not hitch a ride on dry sand?  The colony itself doesn't appear to lurk too deep, but I worry about the eggs and possibly the planula larvae.
     
    If I sterilize, then I'll probably use vinegar, but that'll mean restarting my biocycle.  It's not that big of a deal, but without a more effective means of avoiding hydroids in the first place, it essentially renders my DSB non-functional.  It will always get reinfected before it gets up to speed.
     
    That said, I'm not sure it was destined to be a functional DSB in the first place, as my choice of sand and the limit of its depth appears to fully lend itself to nitrification.  At least, that's what the colors tell me.  And honestly, it's probably better this way.  The more I think about it, the less important denitrification seems.  I had simply hoped to provide as complete of a biotope as possible, but the pure nitrifying capacity sure was nice.  Only needed water changes weekly.
     
    Anyway, I'm not disappointed with anything.  As I've mentioned before, so long as I experiment in the ways I know I want to, I am always pleased with my results.  It is not my expectation to find the magic cure for hydroids.  When I experiment, I simply like to start from scratch and assume as little as possible.  Thus I find it useful to better understand the "wrong" approach before making any determinations about the "right" one.
     
    As far as I'm concerned, the hydroids have been half the fun.  They really are interesting.  If someone could breed phosphorescent hydroids, I'm pretty sure they'd be a popular coral.  I don't suppose you know much about gene splicing?  Can you point me to a good DIY?
     
    After I sterilize, I'll switch to decaped eggs only.  I'm curious to see if there is any difference in time to infection.  A repeat with similar timelines would suggest the breeder water is the true source of infection and not the eggs.  Tho I have since developed a bit of a theory on this and intend to test what I believe to be the critical threshold violator.  Which is to say that I believe several things contribute to hydroid infestation, but that there is one particular part of the process that's tilting things in the hydroid's favor.  But for the moment, it's just a hunch.
     
     
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer7

    Read whole thread and I am relatively speechless,what intially comes to mind is something like...
     
    dat #### cray
     
    Advice Attempt
    Use your super siphon (1mm opening) to suck up individuals...
     
    Dry out Kreisel
     
    Disconnect from system and do a super high iodine dose (guessing here)
     
    For motivation look back at your old posts, and inspirational threads to try and re kindle some of that enthuasism/commitment, if you want it enough it will happen
    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer7

    For motivation look back at your old posts, and inspirational threads
    Is it over indulgent of me to appreciate this advice most?
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer7
    if you want it enough it will happen
    Never said I didn't.
     
    If I appear to have a lack of enthusiasm at the moment, it's because my wife and I have been looking at property and it's been taking up our weekends.  Anyway, it's been a nice break from the brine while I consider my next steps and how I might wish to refine my process before restarting it.
     
    Thank you for reading and joining the thread.  Advice is always welcome, just often argued with.  It's kinda my thing.
     
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:22 PM

     

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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Thursday, May 24, 2012 11:42 PM
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by altolamprologus
    Black scutus?


     
     
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by altolamprologus
    B)
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by ShrimpyPooh

    why!!!!!!
    why o why wont my sexy shrimp eggs mature? lol
    this is their 3rd batch i think and they look like they r gonna fail yet again. everyone makes it sound so easy. just throw in a male and female and bingo. yet my eggs never seem to develop fully. i see all these pics of the girls bottom bursting with full fat eggs with babies clearly visible in inside them but my girls never look like that. i actually saw what appeared to be eyes in this last  failed batch and was gonna put the female in my fry tank but that night she ditched them. if the eggs werent fertilized properly u think their eggs/butt wouldnt get bigger but they do and they carry them for about the full time 12-14 or so days right?  tomorrow will be the 12th day but the eggs just dont seem fully formed to me.
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by mbonus
    keyhole limpet


     
    Would you believe....
     
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald L. Shimek
    Additionally, there are some limpets that generally do not graze on algae. The ones that we are primarily concerned about are the keyhole and slit limpets. These are limpet-shaped snails with a perforation on the top of the shell (keyhole limpets) or a slit on the front shell margins (slit limpets). These animals are generally carnivorous, and will eat sponges, soft corals, and other sessile animals. I have not heard of any specific reports of them eating stony corals, but I suspect that they would. Some of them, however, may be very useful for the control of some low growing colonial nuisance hydroids. Unfortunately, little work has investigated the specific diets of tropical keyhole limpets, so we don't know the names of any beneficial species.
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by
    Keyhole Limpet snails – Diodora is the most common
     
    Distribution: Most are from Baja California
    Water condition: 72-78ºF, sg 1.025, pH 8.1-8.4
    Active time: Nocturnal
    Size: up to 3 in.
    Diet: Herbivore
    Zone: Most like rocks, but will sometimes congregate at the sand line on the glass and they will clean below the sand line.
    Pros: They are great for eating hydroids and will also feed upon all forms of microalgae.
    Cons: They have been known to sometimes graze on Acropora, Montipora and other similar species.
    Additional information: There are dozens of different keyhole limpets in the hobby and close to 200 species in total. They come from all over the world but Diodora is probably the most common genus.
    Why have I not heard of these before?
    I feel like I just rediscovered some lost secret of the ancients.
     
    Not the easiest thing to get a hold of however: LiveAquaria Keyhold Limpets.
     
    <message edited by Whys Alives on Friday, May 25, 2012 1:53 AM>
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    Whys Alives
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:49 AM
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by altolamprologus

    Whoa great find! I hope you are able to locate a source for them. It'll be interesting to see how well they work against hydroids
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by mbonus

    There was a guy in one of my local forums that had what he was calling keyhole limpets but were also id-ed as shield limpets.  Not sure if it the species you are looking for.  I'll hit him up with a pm and see if he is interested in providing a couple for the research.
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pants
    It might be worth asking the reefcleaners guys if they could get a hold of keyhole limpets since they carry another limpet.
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by mbonus

    This, john will have a much better idea on availability...


     

    <message edited by Whys Alives on Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:53 PM>
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    Whys Alives
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Saturday, May 26, 2012 3:18 PM
    Well I managed to get a more complete reply and this is what they said...
     
    Quote Originally Posted by ReefCleaners
    We just don't carry them. We come across them, but I don't sell them.
    They also seemed unconvinced that they would eat hydroids, so I sent them the link.
     
    Quote Originally Posted by ReefCleaners
    Best of luck. We have sent them before  didn't work.
    Now trying floridapets.com, since they were suggested in an old related thread I found on the subject.
     
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    Whys Alives
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Monday, May 28, 2012 1:30 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaPets
    Ryan, thank you for your email. We understand your situation. We were able to procure Keyhole limpets in the past. Recently, they do not appear to be as readily available. We do know that they are in demand and we are continually on the lookout. Ryan, we will keep your email and look forward to getting back to you with their availability.
    This sounds promising.  In the mean time, I have found a single species currently for sale: Diodora cayenensis
     
    It's a start. :]
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    Whys Alives
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Saturday, June 2, 2012 3:32 AM
    Yarrr.... maties!
     
    If ye just be wake'n up, then savvy you didn't look it in the eye.  A horrible sea creature it was.  Entangled this vessel and left her adrift for days.  I'ved but tooth'n nail, stabbing in the dark until...
     
    Now we can open our eyes!
     
    ...tho be it completely off the map.
     

     
    Set sail!  There be a keyhole to treasure and we need only find the key!
     


     
    There are approximately 200 different species of keyhole limpet.  One or more of these species will eat colonial hydroids.  It is not known which.  Worse still, most are near impossible to obtain.
     
    I currently have 4 Diodora cayenensis purchased from livebrineshrimp.com
     

     
    Do they eat colonial hydroids?
     

     
    No idea, but she's all shined up and ready to roll.
     
    I started sterilizing the system before finding the limpets, so we'll have to wait to see.  In the mean time...
     
    My Sterilization Procedure:
    1. Sterilized the equipment and tools with vinegar.
    2. Disposed of the old sand.
    3. Mildly pressure washed the system with a garden hose.
    4. Spot cleaned the system with vinegar.
    5. 14g ro/di & 1L chlorine bleach run in the system for 2.5 hours.
    6. Rinsed system with garden hose and allowed to sun dry.
    7. 14g ro/di & 500 drops dechlorinator run in the system for 2+ hours.
    8. Washed the new sand with ro/di.
    9. 2.5g ro/di & 150mL chlorine bleach in the new sand, stirred every hour for 2 hours and left covered.
    10. Rinsed the new sand thoroughly with 2.5g ro/di.
    11. 2.5g ro/di & 100 drops dechloriniator in the new sand, stirred every hour for 2 hours.
    12. Rinsed the new sand thoroughly with 2.5g of freshly mixed saltwater.
     

     
    May 30, I seeded the sterile sand with frozen mysis and good old fashioned Saltwater Biozyme.
     

     
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    jedi82knight
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Saturday, June 2, 2012 9:11 AM
    Here's a link to three independent studies regarding live bacteria products. Biozyme was included in one of them.

    http://www.fritzzyme.com/...?p=independent-studies
    - Brandon AKA Jedi Knight

    Whys Alives
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Friday, December 28, 2012 6:20 AM

    Happy Holidays everyone!



    Hang on to your Santa hats, we had one crazy Christmas party...

    Things started out ordinary enough: a little eggnog, a little mistletoe.  And of course, Amber was her usual bubbly self --but then it happened.

    I don't know who brought it, but she was clearly on it.  Amber got dark, became hysterical, and ripped her top off!  She was frothing and spitting up everywhere, rambling about her past, about getting infected, becoming sterilized, and not having anymore babies.  Only Jade could finally calm her down, but long story short...

    Now the whole house reeks of bleach.



    Turns out Amber has a daughter: Crystal.  Jade gave her a call, and as luck would have it, her and her girlfriend Misty needed a place to crash.  Yeah, she's a bit of a drifter -- just like her mom -- but I've found with a little structure, she settles right in.

    Here they are trying out my new hot tub!


    Misty is the red-head.

    Now I know what you're thinking and you can say what you want, but at half the size, I still find these two attractive.

    Also....

    I would like to take this post Christmas oppertunity to appologize...















    ...to this man here.



    If you've clicked the images near the beginning of this project, you'll see I've had a bit of fun at his expense.  I don't apologize for the humor mind you; it's valid.  But I do apologize for not adding that he and I have a couple of important things in common.

    One, we share a love of plastics.

    And two, we both intimately understand that there is no separating one's life-philosophy from one's life-work.

    ----------


    I've read a lot of different recommendations for decapsulating brine shrimp eggs, with regards to duration and concentration of the acid bath.  So I decided to run some tests of my own.

    I first hydrated the eggs for an hour in fresh water.  I then prepared a 100% concentration and laid out 9 containers of fresh water.  After each minute interval I removed a small sample of eggs and dropped them in a container of fresh water.  I then inspected the samples under the scope.



    In chronological order from zero to nine minutes.


    Unfortunately, I was hoping for something more conclusive.  I really don't see much difference after the first minute.  Tho at the end, I did notice a thick raw-egg-yolk like consistency to the mixture and very few of the final eggs actually hatched.

    I think I'll rerun this test for one, two, three, and four minutes intervals, then test hatch results for each.

    <message edited by Whys Alives on Friday, December 28, 2012 7:04 AM>
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    EasterEggs
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Friday, December 28, 2012 9:39 AM
    You're still plugging away at this project, eh?  You're very determined. 
    Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

    Whys Alives
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Friday, December 28, 2012 6:33 PM
    Perhaps.  Or maybe I'm just always exactly where it is I want to be.
     
    Thank you for following.
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    Whys Alives
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:54 AM
    Link
    Quote Originally Posted by

    When I was raising freshwater fish we used to breed angelfish.  Hydroids would be a problem since they would eat fry.  I was told that running current through the tank would kill hydroids pretty effectively without harming your bacterial population.  You could take a big old 12v battery connect two wires up and plop them in the tank, inhabitants removed for safety, and treat the tank for 15 minutes increments for several days.  Supposedly this interrupted the lifecycle of hydroids since the medusa stage could not survive the electrical current.   We did this on our breeder tank a few times and it seemed to work.  I'm not sure how it would apply to saltwater hydroids though.

    Shocking!
     
     
    Now it's time for a little segment,
    I like to call:



    Okay fellas, here it is. That's a 250-micron nylon-mesh cylinder with a PVC coupler on one end, a PVC end-cap on the other, and a rubber plug plugging a quarter inch hole on the end of the end-cap.



    What is it?
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    GinaReef
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    Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Thor amboinensis - Friday, January 11, 2013 1:25 AM
    Pelagic egg/larvae collector to be inserted in the overflow pipe and kept under the sump( or collection container) water line.

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