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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Friday, November 18, 2011 5:24 AM
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Got it Luis ! They would start feeding at day 3 isn't it ? And dya 5 or 6 would be considered starvation time ? I know it can change a bit with temperature but jJust to know if I have my facts correct or close.
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Friday, November 18, 2011 8:41 AM
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Originally Posted by luis a m
Mindy,the amount of water is irrelevant because it is being exchanged at the rate of 1 drop/sec.,or a complete turnover every 50 min.This kind of container works well for experimental work,as they can be checked with a microscope. And they are in a rot sieve which sits in the dish!53 mic mesh can hold most naups,something smaller will clog fast. Oh, this is not what I was picturing from your description. I must have missed something...had no idea you were exchanging water by drip. I wish I could help.
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Friday, November 18, 2011 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by
So my new move is to keep the dishes under slow but continuous water exchange. This is sort of a mini open,or better,flow thru system.Better than a down weller,where some waste water still can return across the screen.Here bacteriae are flushed away with UV treated water before they can multiply The drawback is that larvae are in close contact with the screen or the solid walls,which is much less of a problem in aquaculture huge larval tanks.And not an issue in open sea!
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Friday, November 18, 2011 1:06 PM
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Originally Posted by
0 No,starvation time is 9 days for Peter B,and a couple of days more for Stanley B,I think I recall.The prolarval period ends at about 5 days,and feeding begins only then.
Originally Posted by aomont
Got it Luis ! They would start feeding at day 3 isn't it ? And dya 5 or 6 would be considered starvation time ? I know it can change a bit with temperature but jJust to know if I have my facts correct or close.
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Friday, November 18, 2011 1:12 PM
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Luis, where can one get a test (kit?) for vibrio?
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Friday, November 18, 2011 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by KathyL
Luis, where can one get a test (kit?) for vibrio? Kathy,it is not a test kit.You need to obtain a bacteriological medium called "TCBS" Get the 100 grm vial.Larger sizes are expensive.I could start a thread about this.
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Friday, November 18, 2011 11:41 PM
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Great news! At day 5 I have lots of fully developed larvae,2.6 mm long and ready for raising: This is my 2nd thread about raising Centropyge.The 1st one was about hatching the eggs.In both of them,I was hopelessly stuck,and thanks to the help given by the people posting,the problems could be solved.Thanks so much to all of you.This is the beauty of a Site like this. The clear improvement obtained with the use of UV,confirms my initial suspect that the cause of prolarval mortality had to be bacterial. Now the "final season" of this saga is in front of us:raising the larvae!
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Friday, November 18, 2011 11:47 PM
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Friday, November 18, 2011 11:53 PM
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Very cool. Congrats! Can you show us a photo of your setup? I'm interested in the design of the vessel you have the kids in.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Saturday, November 19, 2011 6:19 AM
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Originally Posted by luis a m
... Kathy,it is not a test kit.You need to obtain a bacteriological medium called "TCBS" Get the 100 grm vial.Larger sizes are expensive.I could start a thread about this. Please do start a thread. I am sure others would be interested as well.
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Saturday, November 19, 2011 6:22 AM
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Luis, many congratulations on your achievement!
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Saturday, November 19, 2011 6:48 AM
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This UV idea is very interesting. Pelagic eggs must be exposed to UV from the sun. Is it known what the bacterial counts are in seawater at the surface compared to seawater on the reef? Is this another reason why being up near the surface is beneficial to many reef larvae? Some experiments outdoors with these pro larvae would be interesting. Exposure to UV may be one reason my backyard tubs of critters did so well this past summer. Many questions, little time….
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Saturday, November 19, 2011 3:46 PM
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Oh congratulations Luis! I told you you would do it!
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Sunday, November 20, 2011 12:28 AM
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Congratulations! awesome pictures too! For what it's worth I have 4 larvae with eyes, maybe a couple more. Wednesday night saw the Melanurus wrasses getting ready to spawn, so turned off the korallias and put a DIY mesh bag in the sump instead of a filter sock. I know, crude. Next day turned the sock inside out into a wine glass and saw eggs. Took the 14 that looked completely likely and chucked the rest, usually I try hatching anything that is not cloudy, this time only took the totally clear (except for the embryo) bouyant ones. Last night saw 2 prolarvae, and today not expecting anything was astounded to see 4 living larvae with black eyes. Also saw one that was dead. Since they are very hard to see I don't know if 4 was the total. They are mostly hanging diagonally head down and the yolk appears gone, and if anything bumps them they swim like mad, but I have not seen them eat. Having the yolk gone and eyes pigmented this quickly seems rather fast. I don't expect anything but it sure is fun. Can't say they are wrasse larvae for sure... I have a very young and small pair of flame angels in the tank, and the larvae look an awful lot like your pics. Rather blunt in front and think I saw a tiny spike on the head like in your 2nd pic. Maybe I am seeing things, they probably all look the same at this age. But thought I would mention it. Not that I would care one way or the other, hatching anything is pretty fun. Anyway keep up the good work! Bet you are going to have better luck than I, am not at all prepared to feed larvae at this time. Will scrounge what I can from the pod cultures. Kate
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Sunday, November 20, 2011 8:42 AM
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Good luck, Kate! If they are hanging head-down then they likely still have yolk. What always looks like an eye to me really isn't an eye. It's the way the oil droplet that keeps them buoyant looks. Like this: That big, round spot that I always thought was an eyespot is really the oil droplet.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Umm_fish?
Very cool. Congrats! Can you show us a photo of your setup? I'm interested in the design of the vessel you have the kids in. Here you are .Nothing fancy...Tiny black dots are larvae. and these are 6 dah larvae inside the dish,as seen with a dissection scope,on a 53 mic mesh: Will you try something like this with your wrasses? Obviously,this is not a larval rearing set up.Just an experimental aproach to have a close look at early prolarval development and play with different methods until mortality could be stopped.
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Sunday, November 20, 2011 12:19 PM
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Thanks you guys for the congrats!Hatching the eggs and having the prolarvae developed into larvae were only preliminary (though necessary) steps.Now the real challenge starts!
Originally Posted by KathyL
This UV idea is very interesting. Pelagic eggs must be exposed to UV from the sun. Is it known what the bacterial counts are in seawater at the surface compared to seawater on the reef? Is this another reason why being up near the surface is beneficial to many reef larvae? Some experiments outdoors with these pro larvae would be interesting. Exposure to UV may be one reason my backyard tubs of critters did so well this past summer. Many questions, little time…. I think off shore surface waters have very low bacterial counts,dunno if because of the sun or because of the lack of organic pollutants in the vastness of the sea. Anyway,I am sure there are less bacteriae there that in shore waters and many times less than in our tanks.It is conceivable that fish larvae lack inmune deffense mechanisms against them.
<message edited by luis a m on Sunday, November 20, 2011 4:07 PM>
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Sunday, November 20, 2011 12:45 PM
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Thanks Kate! See how the Sites help?.Success of one of us encourages all the others! My pics are not nice.The slide glass is full of scratches.The spike you saw in the 2nd larva is only a scratch. Try to be as gentle as possible when collecting eggs,perhaps with a large collecting screen.Strong flow kills the eggs,as was found in my 1st thread. Yes,my prolarvae hang head down at 45º,they remind me of Xenopus larvae .Perhaps other prolarvae are the same. I think you can tell if your prolarvae are angels or wrasses by inspecting the location of the oil vacuole.It is in the front of the yolk sac in wrasses (see Andy´s pics) and at the rear end of it in angels. You should now focus in obtaining large numbers of competent larvae.Then there will be time to try and raise them.One step at a time!
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Sunday, November 20, 2011 2:16 PM
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Thank you. Why do I forget about cool ideas like sliding a sieve into another container and letting that container overflow? Doh. I think I probably will steal that idea.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Incubating Centropyge eggs and prolarvae.
Sunday, November 20, 2011 2:49 PM
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Jeez Andy, even I had that idea! :p Well, kind of... Thanks for posting pics Luis! Now, to get a hundred prolarvae to larvae and you should be set to get them to settlement!
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