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Holes in head all over the place
Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:26 PM
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This started appearing on almost all clownfish mostly the juveniles It's so ugly the whole batch of clowns would be unsellable by my standards My water is somewhat dirty that could be one obvious reason The large mature broodstock on the same system does not have this issue. I only feed dry pellets, TDO Anyone else seen this before ?
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Thursday, November 1, 2012 10:11 PM
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I haven't seen this before.
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Thursday, November 1, 2012 10:16 PM
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Joe do you run carbon at all on this system? It has been implicated in causing hole in the head. The great fall back is always do another water change to see if that helps at all. Failing that, I'd wonder if it isn't a protozoa of some sort.
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Thursday, November 1, 2012 10:59 PM
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No carbon I just checked stray voltage i get 0.2V which isnt much
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Friday, November 2, 2012 9:40 AM
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I'd still try to find where the voltage is coming from. Just one more thing to rule out. Good luck!
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Friday, November 2, 2012 10:28 AM
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Hope this helps: Also known as: Head and Lateral Line Erosion Disease (HLLD or HLLE), Lateral Line Erosion (LLE), Lateral Line Disease (LLD). This disease is especially common in discus fish and Oscar fish and causes large cavities and soars on the head and along the lateral line of the fish. The open wounds caused by hole in the head disease are very distinctive and makes this disease easy to discover and diagnose. If your fish has growing wounds on its head it is likely suffering from hole in the head disease. Early signs of this disease are small pits on the head of the fish. This disease often appears simultaneous with a disease called Hexamita and this has lead to these two diseases being frequently confused with each other. Hexamita attacks the intestines of the fish and can often be the cause of the hole in the head disease which has been attributed to nutritional deficiency, The two diseases are however not one and the same. Hole in the head disease is believed to be the result of a deficiency of one or several of the following nutrients: Phosphorus, Calium, Vitamin C and Vitamin D. This deficiency can as earlier mentioned be caused by Hexamita and its effect on the digestive system but it can also be a result of poor water quality, poor diet or over filtration using chemical filtration. Hole in the head disease is often very hard to cure, especially in its later stages, but an improved diet with more vitamins and increasing the water quality by cleaning the tank and performing more frequent water changes might help. It is also recommended to remove any chemical filtration such as active carbon filtration. Improving the diet of the fish can include adding vitamins to the diet, introducing vitamin rich flake food to the diet and removing (or at least cut down on) nutrient poor feeder fish and beef heart from the diet.
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Friday, November 2, 2012 11:04 AM
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Yikes... not doesnt sound good at all. Sorry for your misfortune. Do you happen to have a cephalopod, eel or other large fish that needs live food?
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Saturday, November 3, 2012 10:18 AM
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That's not hole in the head Your water was to dirty. Furan 2 and about eight weeks of clean water will take care of the problem.
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Saturday, November 3, 2012 3:32 PM
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Right,no HLLD. I used to see that in my clown juvs,years ago.Never found what it was.Lesions were not deep ulcers but shallow exulcerations.
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Tuesday, November 6, 2012 4:22 PM
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Yes my water is very bad so that must be the culprit. I've done a few water changes already. Hoping it will sort itself out.
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:34 AM
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use framaldahide followed by prazipro or crypto pro
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:47 AM
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I'm still not done with this problem Two bigger fish in my broodstock died recently They had rapid breathing besides the holes in the head. Could it be brook? Joyce wilkerson wrote about one of brookynella signs as "pits in the head" Everything written about brookynella says it kills fish within 48 hours. My problem is dragging over 2 months and slowly taking fish down The whole system has 10 pairs in it, 5 egg laying. Before i tear down everything i want to try to identify the disease and treat correctly
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:54 AM
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Have you checked for stray voltage in the system? Long ago, I had a yellow tang that was suffering from HLLE. At the time there were two solutions suggested by my LFS guy that I trust the most: 1) Possible stray voltage. Correct with a grounding probe. I did confirm the stray voltage with a voltmeter, and the grounding probe did solve the problem, as shown by the voltmeter. 2) Nutrition. The suggested solution was to feed Spectrum pellets. Both solutions were implemented at the time, but only solution #1 has been implemented consistently ever since. The problem has gone away for me, and stayed away. I hope this helps.
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Monday, February 11, 2013 12:39 PM
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I checked for voltage again and i have none As for nutrition isn't Otohime a complete feed ? I'm raising about 100 clownfish in a stand alone tank and they have not develloped the disease. They hatched from a flower pot from the "contaminated" system. Crossing my fingers. Does this slow killer disease fits Uronema Marinum? its a systemic parasite that over take dirty aquariums. death sentence from what i read Since then i've done a complete cleaning overhaul of the system, emptied the sump and the goo on the bottom and added filter socks. I have some furan-2 coming in the mail that i will try Heres a pic of 1 inch snowflakes that just started developping the disease in the main system
<message edited by joebean on Monday, February 11, 2013 5:30 PM>
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:32 PM
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I'm 99.9% certain its Uronema Marinum Me leaving the system get really dirty for too long must of caused a the parasite to swarm the whole system. Instead of subjecting the fish to all kind of medication im going to try maintaining pristine water conditions and feed nutritious food frozen and dry. After the filter socks and i just added Carbon and phosban. Since the parasite feeds on bacteria im wondering wether to stop carbon dosing From advanced aquarist: http://www.advancedaquari.../aafeature1#section-16 Uronema marinum Uronema marinum is a free-living rather than obligate parasite as it feeds on live food, dead tissue and bacteria. However, this parasite is opportunistic and, it is often found on recently captured, transported, or otherwise weakened hosts. Poor conditions and stress are believed to be factors as they negatively impact the host’s immune system. Uronema marinum infects fish within a wide temperature and salinity range and invades the internal organs in advanced stages. Reproduction Reproduction is by fission. Symptoms Early on, increased mucus production and hyperactivity may be seen as symptoms of Uronema marinuminfection. Focal de-pigmentation, ulceration and pitting of the skin, respiratory distress, lethargy, flashing, clamped fins, erratic swimming, gasping at the surface or laying at the bottom of the aquarium are symptoms. Raised scales with bloody patches (hemorrhages) can also be exhibited. These lesions can be difficult to distinguish from those exhibited with vibrio bacterial infections. - Excess mucus production
- Hyperactivity early in infection
- Focal de-pigmentation
- Ulceration and pitting of the skin
- Respiratory distress
- Lethargy
- Clamped fins
- Gasping at the surface or sitting on the bottom
- Raised scales with bloody patches
- Flashing
- Erratic swimming
Treatment It is crucial to begin treatment early before this parasite invades internal organs. Early stages of infection may be controlled with freshwater or formalin dips (Basiola and Gratzek,1992.). Some success has been reported with nitrofurazone and methylene blue (Chueng et al., 1980. Bassleer, 1983). Experimental treatments with anti-malaria drugs such as chloroquine and quinacrine hold some promise. Hydrogen peroxide can be effective against parasites on external surfaces, but it is not well tolerated by some fish. Systemic infections have a poor prognosis. Secondary bacterial infection is common. It may be wise to follow formalin or freshwater dips with a course of nitrofurazone treatment. Definition of Terms Osmoregulation (process that controls the salt/water balance within fish) Pronounced: os·mo·reg·u·la·tion. The regulation of osmotic pressure. The control of the concentration of dissolved substances in the cells and body fluids of an animal.
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWelsh
Have you checked for stray voltage in the system? Long ago, I had a yellow tang that was suffering from HLLE. At the time there were two solutions suggested by my LFS guy that I trust the most: 1) Possible stray voltage. Correct with a grounding probe. I did confirm the stray voltage with a voltmeter, and the grounding probe did solve the problem, as shown by the voltmeter. 2) Nutrition. The suggested solution was to feed Spectrum pellets. Both solutions were implemented at the time, but only solution #1 has been implemented consistently ever since. The problem has gone away for me, and stayed away. I hope this helps. Sorry, I can flat out say its not nutrition. The some of the largest clown hatcheries around use Otohime and they have no issues. I'll send Chad over to check this out, get a pro on the task
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Thursday, February 14, 2013 2:10 AM
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This isn't uronema; Uronema is a parasite that manifests itself completely differently (and also can be quite fatal). I also wouldn't utilize the info posted by Westhooligan as that info merges both Freshwater "Hole in the Head" and Marine Lateral Line Errosion / HOle in the head as if they are the same thing; couldn't be further from the truth. I am more inclined to go with the comments regarding stray voltage and dirty water.
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:28 AM
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Originally Posted by joebean
I checked for voltage again and i have none Are you checking for both AC as well as DC stray voltage? For AC, are you checking with one probe well connected to your AC ground? Are you checking with all of your lights and other equipment on (in my case, it was the ballasts for my T5 actinics that was causing the stray voltage; with those lights off, I showed no stray voltage)?
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:23 PM
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I have seen this before. It was the result of poor water quality and the scarring never went away. Always test your water quality before making assumptions. In my career, I have learned that the majority of issues have been directly related to water quality. It's best to keep the water as clean as possible or you open the door for infection. Clownfish are very hardy, but prolonged stress can lead to much worse things and you will eventually have a disease outbreak that could potentially wipe out everything. Just maintain better standards and keep feeding them the same way. I would also advise you to keep your broodstock separate from your nursery fish. Keep your systems separate to avoid cross contamination. The voltage thing intrigues me and I am very interested to see how that plays out.
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Re:Holes in head all over the place
Thursday, February 14, 2013 2:40 PM
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thank you all for your input I run a algea scrubber in combination with vodka dosing. I thought it would allow me to run the system without water changes save for siphoning piles of junks. I realise I was delusional. It works on a 55g softies tank i have run for 2 years without water changes but it doesnt see the same kind of feeding. every other day i pluck out patches of algea like these:
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