I keep killing my rotifers

I've left mine out overnight and it has made it last less time, but hasn't ruined it.  You can tell when it goes bad, it is no longer bright green - becomes an olive green and stinks in a different way.  LOL.
 
I don't use airstones.  I will video my culture for you.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

checked under a microscope and I think I see the tiny males swimming around. I don't know if this is better than nothing, or what. What is the next step after you see males? Do I have to sieve and start over again, or just feed lightly and see what happens? Rotifers are going to make me quit breeding....I feel like spawning, hatching, rearing are all easy as pie, but keeping rotifers is impossible.

Are those males, or ciliates?
 
If I were you, i would place an order from Reed's and start over.

check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
Captive bred clownfish and more
(Wholesale to the trade.)

Reed is making a fortune off me, fedex as well. This is like my 6th or 7th order of rotifers!
 
Some are fast moving, some seem to swim in a circle and/figure 8. Too small to get a good look at at 30x.

If you see some just wait and see if they bounce back. Add like 1ml of RG (if the water is currently clear) and do not add more until the water looks clear again.

I'm having a hard time telling if it's clear. The crap at the bottom is green, water is tea colored when looking through a wine glass.
 
How much RGC? I'm using RGC on one culture RG +chloram-x on the other.
 
Reed should offer MBISITE discounts. =)

if I recall you are using a CCS, which I assume is white.? Can you take a picture of your culture looking down into the bucket? Short of that, I say if the bottom is green you have a lot of RG sunk to the bottom. My white bucket has a bit of light brown on the sides and bottom but not green.

Ok went back and read and looks like you now have them in 2L? If so you should be adding maybe 3 drops of RG+ Or 6 of RGC. If you have added 1ml you likely need to sieve again into fresh water and start adding the drops mentioned above.

I think I'm at 1-2 gallons now. I will do above. Nothing to lose at this point.

If you do that and have fresh water in a clean container you should be able to easily see the shift from the light green tint when the RG is added to the "clear" when the rotifers have consumed the algae.

Use a shot glass to scoop a sample out of the bucket to check if it is clear.  "Clear" water will have a yellow/brown tint, and if it is not clear it will have a green tint.  I will take some pics and videos for you as soon as I remember (my fish aren't at home).

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

I got two bags of 1million rotifers from reed. I added 1 L of fresh sw to one bag, and added 6 drops of RGC.
The salinity was 1.019 in the culutre, and I added 1.021. I don't think that'll be a problme.
 
I haven't touched the other bag yet, because i want to know if above is ok. Reeds website says to add 11ML of RGC, which is alot IMO.
http://reedmariculture.co...rotifers_culturing.php
 
I also checked these under my microscope to ensure that I should be seeing rotifers with my current configuration, and yes I see ton in just .1ML. 
 
I bought this from carolina just to compare. Don't waster your money. I literally see 2 live adults, and a ton of tiny tiny things that aren't adult rotifers. Total waste of money.
http://www.carolina.com/r...=&question=rotifer
 
I'm not currently using the CCS. Had nothing but trouble, and wanted to eliminate variables before I try them again.
 
Anyone think I should buy a NEW bucket to eliminate variables, or is that overkill. These buckets don't leave my fishroom and have never had any chemicals in them.
 

We say...

Add enough RGcomplete to maintain a light green color between feedings. Typically this will be 11 ml daily per million rotifers for maximum production, less if you need fewer rotifers. 11 mLs will give you a harvest 1m rotifers typically, if your parameters are close to what we suggest.  To be clear, that is 11 milliters added to the 14l culture.  6ml to 1l is excessive and not needed if cold banked in the bag.

Actually Gresham this is what It says.

Starting your culture

Put the bag of rotifers in the bucket to allow it to slowly warm up

Wait 5 minutes then open the bag and add the rotifer starter culture

If you are starting with 1 million rotifers, add 11 mL RGcomplete or other algae feed

Add microalgae daily but wait at least 3 days before starting to harvest them if it is desired to build up the population as rapidly as possible

Mine is a direct quote, and yours supports mine.  
 
The directions you posted start off at the top of the page as:
The Basic Setup
A 5 gallon (ca. 20 liter) bucket is a typical setup for a small system. 

 
The portion you posted states:

Put the bag of rotifers in the bucket to allow it to slowly warm up (5 gallon bucket of culture water)

Wait 5 minutes then open the bag and add the rotifer starter culture (add to 5 gallon bucket of culture water)

If you are starting with 1 million rotifers, add 11 mL RGcomplete or other algae feed
 
 
Does this make sense to you?  You are adding the 1l of 1 million rot culture to the 5 gallon bucket of culture water, then feeding that 11ml.  We are NOT saying add 11ml to the bag of culture water.  You do not need to feed the bag in the refrigerator much at all... just keep it tinted green.  Their metabolism is very minor at that temp.

Got it. I don't know why bothered contesting the master

 Oh I'm no master, I work with them though :lol:
 
Having gone back and reread those instructions, I see room for improvement. The line that I think you got caught by really should have a bit more detail.  The wonderful thing, and what I hate the most, is websites tend to be dynamic.  With such a data heavy website, we tend to forget about sections of it till people remind us... so thanks, thanks for bringing this one to light.
 
A little off topic, but are you planning on doing full time hobby breeding/rearing, or just a batch here and there?  If the latter, I suggest just buying what rots you need for that clutch.  Typically a million is more then enough.  I have a calculator half designed that will help with this, I'll get the formulas completed ASAP.

I am somewhere between hobbyist and full blown. I think I'm going to start off slow and ramp up once I have this rotifer problem under control. Plus I have a freezer full of rgc, rg+, and rotigreen omega

Gresham, any instructions on RGC or RG+ for 1L of culture + 1L of NSW? It's hard to gauge culture color with 1 million rotifers in 1L!

Personally, I haven't had a lot of luck diluting the culture that much, but they travel for much longer to come to Canada, so maybe that makes a difference. 
 
When I buy a bag of 1 million rotifers I pour them into an empty 6L bucket and add aeration.  I wait about an hour and then I drip in 1L of new SW that I've added 2 mL RotiGrow Omega and 2 mL ClorAm-X solution to (this is the only time I ever drip acclimate rotifers).  By the next morning they usually haven't cleared the water yet, so I skip that feeding, and they usually get fed the night after (24-30 hours after receiving them and first feeding).
 
I took some pics and vids for you...I'll upload them now.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

Clear:

 
 
Not clear:

 
 
Clear:
http://vid85.photobucket....unfed%20Mar%202015.mp4
 
 
Just fed:
http://vid85.photobucket....20fed%20Mar%202015.mp4

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

Mindy, it sounds like I'm diluting the same. 1l of culture to 1l nsw.

i can't really see the difference in the pics. The videos are easier to see. I'm thinking that if you wrote something on the bottom of the bucket, and can read clearly, then you know you need to feed. If you can't read it clearly, then they have enough food. That is assuming there is no gunk on the bottom.

How are you treating your NSW?  Are you collecting it yourself?

Good point Gresham, I forget many Americans have access to NSW.  People seem to get new SW and NSW mixed up though...
 

 
I mean this in the nicest way possible, are you at all color blind?  The top photo is brown, and the bottom photo is green.  Colorblindness would be a challenge in this case!  You're right though, when there is food left in the culture the culture appears blurry.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

I am color blind. And I meant new artificial saltwater...sorry for incorrectly using the wrong acronym.

Dang... I thought I was on to something.
 
FWIW judging by color is hard at any rate.  The more rotifers, the browner the culture, the greater need for feed.
 
I started on a color wheel for judging feed and densities and its really freaking tough.  My monitor calibrator is old now and doesn't work with the new Windows

I think it sounds like you are going to have to use a fixed quantity fixed time method. Might not be as efficient but it will help you keep a steady culture of rotifers.

The 11ml had been discussed extensively above but, in my opinion most people don't need max production.

Being that you just got starter cultures I would add one to 4G of water in your CCS and add 2ml of RGC twice a day. Once a week remove approximately 1G of culture water (and rots) and replace it with fresh artificial saltwater (aged 24 hours minimum). Also rinse your rotifer floss weekly. Once a month SIEVE out 3G of the water and replace with fresh artificial seawater (aged 24hrs min). Keep your specific gravity at .005 less than your system. Rotifers can take a .007 shift fine.

I think it you just go with the system above exactly you will have a steady supply of rotifers. If you use RG+ then feed 1ml twice daily. As mentioned earlier I think due to bad luck earlier you are worrying too much and over complicating things.

The above recommendation... at that point you pretty much wasted your money on the CCS... just use a rigid airline and bucket.  The floss won't help much if only cleaned once a week, with a water change only once a month. 
 
Just to clarify....
Add 1 liter rotifer culture to 13l of culture water to arrive at 14l.
 

I will try above. I am not going to use the ccs for now. The 24 hour aged SW might have been an issue. I don't always wait that long....

me neither, but its never caused me an issue.  I do use air plus powerheads when using ASW that I need to use quickly.

Yes I agree it's not needed to age 24hrs, simply intending to imply properly mixed. I guess I could have just stated it that way. Just trying to be as specific as I could and create a conservative protocol to raise a decent amount of rotifers but by no means be as efficient or as productive as the proven and professional protocols Gresham recommended. I very seldom needed rotifers consistently or in large batches (1 million/day) so I would roughly follow the above to "ramp up" and then let them "coast down".

As for the floss, should it be cleaned daily Gresham? Sorry for the bad info if so. I will fully admit I pulled the weekly idea from ... Well... places. (I understand some may have the opinion that this is where all my info comes from!)

Can you post some pics of your setup and water like Eastereggs did? Maybe someone will see the ah-ha thing we are struggling to find.

 
That complicates matters!  I do think using small cultures will help you see the difference.  I think your best bet for judging clear vs not clear is going by clear vs blurry looking.  Maybe if you use small white buckets and put a few 1/2" black dots on the bottom with a Jiffy marker so you can see if the dots are clearly seen or blurry will be the best bet for you.  Honestly, I think your only problem is that you have been overfeeding.  Rotifers are easy and this thread is really making them out to be complicated.
 
Here's an old thread I started  Small Scale Rotifer Production for the Lazy Man (or Woman).  The method works quite well.  Don't feed the 2.25 mL per L (of RotiGrow Plus) I refer to though, that was explaining how dense the cultures can be using this method.  If you follow this method and feed 0.5 - 1 mL per liter of culture you can't go wrong.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

I've been underfeeding this time on purpose.. and so far so good. I'm adding 1ML RG+(equal parts diluted chloramx solution) or 2ML RGC at the very most. So far, so good.
 
I am going to get some small white buckets, and put a letter at the bottom with a sharpie marker. I think blurry/clear is the way to go when you are color blind.

Underfeeding sounds like a good course for you to be on.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

Here is a video. I haven't moved to smaller buckets yet, and water volume is higher than I want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfRxV76q0Hk

 
A couple things that are very different from what I do (and I say it that way because it may not be "wrong" exactly) is you're using a lot less air than I do, and I've found my rotifers have done a lot better with clear lids (I use a piece of acrylic).  You're using about the same amount of air that I use in my little cultures.  Of course volume is a big difference too.
 
EDIT:  Looking at my video and then looking at yours, I can see clearly that I am actually using MORE air in my bucket than you are using in yours and mine is about 1L in the video and yours appear to be about 4 gallons each.  That's significant.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

I agree, that's not enough flow.  FWIW you are using air to move water, not put oxygen in that water (that is an artifact of it though).  

I'll try to increase.