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Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Wednesday, January 1, 2014 1:36 AM
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Breeding Journal DataSheet This first post should be updated regularly to include new information as events take place or changes are made to your system General Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab) Social Structure: Male and Female "pair" Size of Individuals: 3" - 4.75" Age of Individuals: Unknown, WC Date added to Tank: 12/31/13 Broodstock Tank Details Size of Tank: 30 gallon Substrate Details: sand Filtration Details: Canister filter Water Changes: 25% every two weeks Water Temperature: 58-60 o F Lighting: Fluorescent Lighting Cycle: 12 hours on/12 hours off Other Tank Inhabitants: Bat stars, sea urchins, hermit crabs, assorted snails, etc. Broodstock Feeding Details Food Types: Algae (Ulva and Kelp), algae sheets Feeding Schedule: constant grazing, every other day Spawning Details Date of First Spawn: unknown Spawn Time of Day: unknown Dates of Consecutive Spawns: unknown Courtship Details: Male grabs onto the "back" of the female and stays with her until hatch and release Egg Size: unknown Egg Color: unknown Egg Count: unknown Hatch Details Hatch Date: 12/31/13 Hatch Time of Day: unknown # Days after Spawn: unknown Larvae Description: Many small dots darting about the tank Larval Tank Details Temperature: 50-64 (ambient garage temperature) Size of Larval Tank: 2L juice bottle Substrate Details: none Other Tank Decor: none Filtration Details: none Lighting: Ambient, some fluorescent Lighting Cycle: about 12 on/12 off from the other tank lights Water Changes: 100% every two days Larval Feeding Details Food Types: Microalgae (live and instant), nhbbs (frozen and live) Feeding Schedule: constant Metamorphosis/Settlement Date of Settlement Start: Days after Hatch: Date of Settlement End: Description of Fry: Grow-Out Tank Details Temperature: Size of Grow-Out Tank: Substrate Details: Other Tank Decor: Filtration Details: Lighting: Lighting Cycle: Water Changes: Size at Transfer: Age at Transfer: Grow-Out Feeding Details Food Types: Feeding Schedule: Additional Information (No Pictures or Videos in the Section Please) Miscellaneous Information: You will be required to provide photographic evidence in this thread of each event submitted for the MBI Program. If your thread does not contain these photos the MBI Committee will not be able to approve your reports.
<message edited by Zigzag on Thursday, January 2, 2014 12:26 PM>
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Wednesday, January 1, 2014 11:20 AM
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Wednesday, January 1, 2014 11:26 AM
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Here is a picture of the baby tank. I think I might make or buy a larval catcher since I didn't get a lot of babies.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Thursday, January 2, 2014 9:10 AM
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I don't know anything about this particular crab, but looking on eol.org about it, it looks to be a Majoidea crab and the reading I've done suggests that most of these have two zoeal stages followed by one megalopa (my research has been limited though). I would focus on the live phyto and nhbbs. I don't think the ulva will be all that helpful. Perhaps it may serve as a settlement cue, but you could just add it once you see the megalopa stage. Until then, it will just be something they can get all bungled up in. Try to change the water 100% every couple days, but make sure to drip acclimate them after. This is exciting! They are very cool looking crabs!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Thursday, January 2, 2014 12:14 PM
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Thanks so much! I found almost nothing about these crabs, except for their habitat and food, but just for the adults, so I am just trying to make it work... somehow. They don't seem to eat the nhbbs, so I am focusing more on the algae since they seem to clear their green water very rapidly. Last night I tinted their water a light brown, now it's almost completely clear. I removed the ulva and there were many babies on it, so that's fixed now. I'm not sure how long it will take them to molt into baby crabs since they are coldwater, but I am imagining around 2-4 weeks, hopefully on the shorter side though.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Thursday, January 2, 2014 12:40 PM
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It is almost certain that they will need more than just phyto. If you have rots, throw some of those in there as well, but you would be shocked at how small of a larvae (a crustacean larvae at least) can eat nhbbs. So I wouldn't give up on feeding the nhbbs. I raised some peppermint shrimp and it was several weeks in before I actually saw or could really tell that they were eating the nhbbs. Do you have a scope? That would make it a bit easier to determine stages. By eye, it is difficult to tell Z1 from Z2, but when they molt to megalopa, you can definitely tell by eye. They have a way different shape and they also swim a bit differently. I have no idea about cold water species, so I have nothing to suggest in terms of development time. The couple crabs I've worked with have molted to Z2 around day 3 or 4, but they weren't cold water species. I did find this paper though about cold water crab development, although not your species, it may give you an estimated timeline: http://epic.awi.de/7996/1/Ang2003b.pdf This abstract also has some good info: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/umrsmas/bullmar/1986/00000039/00000002/art00025 (Let me know if you want the full paper...I may be able to get it.) From what I briefly read...they will take longer (months??) :/
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Thursday, January 2, 2014 1:02 PM
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At 59 degrees the larvae took 3.5 weeks to change into crabs... The average temperature in my garage is 58 so hopefully they form that quickly. I have some rotifer cysts, so I will start to hatch those. I will also hatch some more baby brine shrimp. I see some copepods in their parent's tank so I might throw some of those in. According to a website I read, it takes up to a year for the eggs to hatch, so if I mess this up then I have a whole year to wait... Wish me and the crabs luck!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Thursday, January 2, 2014 2:34 PM
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I, unfortunately, do not have a microscope, but you might be able to tell which instar they are from their movements. They seem to be moving their tails a bit more, but they are still in that little orb shape popping around the tank.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Thursday, January 2, 2014 2:49 PM
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Both the zoeal stages are ball shaped with a tail that flicks every once in awhile. I think I can sort of tell by eye when they go from Z1 to Z2, but it's a combination of knowing when the SHOULD and seeing a very subtle size difference or other change that I can't even really describe. Sorry I can't help with that one without a close up pic. I think it would be pretty fair to assume they are Z1 and will be for awhile based on what those papers suggest. The megalopae will look a bit more like a squished ball...they are wider and a bit more flat looking. They start to look a little bit more like crabs...I guess that would be the best way to describe them, although when I read over that description I realize it doesn't sound very helpful at all! lol If you watch them closely while you are rearing them, you almost can't miss it. One day you will peek at them and just be like, "Holy moly, megalopae!" Are you sure that this particular species only spawns once a year? The paper/abstract made it sound like SOME species only spawn once a year...hopefully this isn't one of them! Has the male remained on the female's back after the hatch? I wonder if he just hangs out there waiting until she has eggs ready to be fertilized and then drops off again? That is quite odd. Where did you get these from?
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Thursday, January 2, 2014 3:28 PM
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While on vacation, along the beach of the California coast, south of San Francisco and north of LA (About half way between there), I found theses guys on top of each other holding onto a piece of dead kelp. Thinking they were dead I put them in my in the bag (because they were so cool) that I was collecting shells with and I went home. When I was in the car they started moving around. When I got home, I acclimated them to my coldwater tank, and that night they had the babies. So this website says that the female can withhold the sperm for many months, but they mate when she molts. http://www.bbc.co.uk/natu...ern_kelp_crab_bg.shtml Hopefully she will fertilize her eggs right away! The male is not on top of her anymore but they are close to each other. Also, I might be getting a microscope this weekend.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Wednesday, January 15, 2014 8:17 AM
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How are these doing? Still have them going?
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Wednesday, January 15, 2014 9:22 AM
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No, sadly there was a massive die out one day, and they just never really recovered. They just went down hill from there. The last three babies were placed in a smaller container, but they just disappeared one day. I did freeze one body to see what development stage it was in. They made it to 10 days. The parents are still alive and well. They aren't really showing any courtship signs, and they tend to stay at their own sides of the tank.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 1:56 AM
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Well now there's a new species to me! Have you checked to see if we have it classified in the database yet? If not, do so, and consider submitting the classification request for it so you can file reports and start earning points. Has it been done before?
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Taliepus nuttallii (Southern kelp crab)
Wednesday, January 22, 2014 10:47 PM
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No it hasn't been done before. I'm going to submit it in soon
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