Summer Banggai Project

I'm considering an outdoor Banggai breeding project during the summer months.  This is still in the planning stages and I welcome any advice.  Matt W. provided me with this link, I'd read it before but lost track of it: http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/seagrant/communication/pdf/Banggai%20Cardinalfish-Final.pdf  Thanks Matt!
 
I'll be using a "pond" like this one: http://www.maccourt.com/products/ponds/lp7818.html 
 
In an attempt to keep costs, and effort, to a minimum I will not be installing the "pond" in the ground, it will be on one of my decks where it will get ample lighting. 
 
I will also be implementing some sort of umbrella system to deal with major rainstorm/salinity issues.  The soest link above seems to agree with my thoughts that salinity changes aren't a large factor in Banggai behavior, but I will still have to deal with it .
 
Eggcrate/mesh will handle, hopefully, raccoon/predator problems from above.
 
Due to the limited time frame (summers in MI are short), I will need to have actively breeding pairs available ASAP.  I only have 1 pair at the moment.
 
I would appreciate input from anyone, so if you have any thoughts, let me know :-) 

Sounds interesting, how are you going to control temperature swings in a larger outdoor system? 

Rook

I might do something like a "cold-frame" used in gardening.  Basicaly, a removeable glass lid for cold nights, and a heater too, of course.

It sounds like a cool idea. 
Are you moving the set-up outside, because room is tight indoors?  Or, are you just trying to challenge yourself with the additional variables?

Thanks Brian!  And, yes, LOL room is tight and it would be a challenge.  It would be much easier if I just moved to Hawaii, wouldn't it?

Tal,
What temp does the lake water get/stay that your on?  If it stays consistant, could you use a long garden hose and recirc pump to heat/cool this set up, like a hot water tank recirc heater, but use it as a heater/cooler.

This sounds like a great idea, hope it comes together.
Steve

I'm not that worried about temps.  In the study above, they charted temps between 71 and 82.  Grow out time is significantly shorter at higher temps. Not that I want to cook them, but you see my point?  If it gets too hot, a shade could be used and water circulation increased.

That is a great link, I feel like I'm ready to breed now!
 
So, are you planning to make cages to seperate the pairs?  How many pairs do you want to have? 
 
From reading, it sounds like observation will be a bit harder than in a tank. 
 
 

I'm still "thinking" it through...

 
Sorry I have not read the link YET... So it may explain how to combat heat...But I know growing up as a kid, my family had a swimming pool, and by the end of summer the water was very warm, well over 80*ish.  I would think that you may have over heating problems with the set up your planning. 
 
Steve

Well, think away!!!  I've thought about trying an experimental saltwater pond, but I don't have the time to take on a new project.
 
I'm very interested to follow your progress.

I just got back from Lowe's, if you're looking for a pond, go NOW!  They have last year's leftovers for dirt cheap!  I got a 35G round one, with a pump for $3!  They had a 125G for $7.44, it was too big for my car though.  I'm thinking the 35 might be just fine, I don't want this to be a huge undertaking.

Here's the pond I picked up.  It's about 38" in diameter and 14" deep:
 

 
The other BRT (black round tub) I'll be using for growing rotifers.  I left some in there during the winter and some survived.
 

 
I decided to go with this size this year.  If it goes well I'll get a bigger one next summer.
 
This is the NE side of my house and it will get direct light until about 2pm'ish.  It will be shaded during the hot afternoons and evenings.
 
Our summers aren't that much different than Hawaii weather except they get less rain in the summer and lots in the winter, depending on where you're at on the island.  I don't think overheating will be too much of a problem, but we'll see.  Cool night will be more worrisome so I'll have to have a heater. 

Maybe I missed it.   What is the plan for the winter time.

Hawaii! ROFLMAO  Sorry, I couldn't resist. 
 
I assume you mean the fish in the winter?  Well, there will only be 1 or 2 pairs in that pond and I'll bring them back inside for the winter.
 
I just noticed, this is my 2000th post!  Woo hoo!

Hawaii, not a bad idea.  That makes sense then.  Congrats on your 2,000th post

Cool project Tal, I'm interested to see how it goes. I think you're covering the bases so far, will be interesting to see how it goes in practice. I did like the idea Steve mentioned about using the lake water to manage temp once it warms up, pumping through a coil of PEX tube like Jarrods heating system. Or....the round tub with the BC's in it is sitting in a larger tub that is filled with lake water that's pumped in and flows back out (back to the lake) to act as a buffer. I know, I'm carried away , hopefully it won't be an issue like you said.

-Mike- 240g In-wall - 48x48x24 - Mixed Reef  

Thanks Mike.  Maybe I'm not that concerned with overheating because I'm used to the microclimate around my house.  Being on a lake makes a big difference.
 
When I was in Hawaii I saw many people housing fish outside in tubs and such.   The key is managing sunlight with shade. 
 
Another factor that isn't noticeable is that the deck is over the entrance to my pseudo basement and it stays pretty cool.
 
I do appreciate the input from everyone.  The more minds, the better! 

I think your probably right, I grew up on a lake north of Clarkston, and now that you mention it, I do remember the climate being effected by the lake (long time ago..lol).  A fan could be used on a calm, hot day if needed, which brings up evaporation/top-off.......will be interesting to see how that is affected as well. Was there much issue with that in HI?

-Mike- 240g In-wall - 48x48x24 - Mixed Reef  

In the study, at the top, they charted temp variations between 71 and 82 degrees.  Salinity fluctuations between 25 and 35.  Neither had much affect on the Banggais although growth rates at higher temps were better/faster.

...I too, am guilty of not actually reading the attachment. All in all, I think it's manageable, especially considering the effort/progress/dedication you've put into the breeding project as a whole. If for some reason the outdoor thing gets to be a pain, you've started off small enough to bring it inside (as if I actually know how much room there is inside, gotta check out your set-up one of these days).

-Mike- 240g In-wall - 48x48x24 - Mixed Reef  

LOL, no worries.  You're welcome to stop by at any time.
 
As far as effort and dedication goes... I think it was Brain that I said this to... it would probably just be easier for me to move to Hawaii and do this stuff, LOL  Some day.
 
I agree with the "size" comment.  I was thinking about 100-300G but decided to scale it down a bit for now.  Not to mention that I didn't want it to fall through my deck!
 

Hey Tal Just started reading this thread.  I have 1 breeding pair and I'm working on a second breeding pair currently.  But I average about 30 bangaii babies a month.  So if your breeding pair is currently reproducing I'd be interested in swaping some bloodlines some time. 

My next batch of babies should be happening either this weekend, or possibly by Wednesday.

Toledo Reef Aquarium Club
Web Administrator
www.TracCentral.org

Are you going to wrap this in insulation, including on the bottom and the top after the sun goes down?  May help both with the heat and the cold nights.  Maybe find an old hot-tub cover and cut it up to fit.

Rook

Cool, I'll keep that in mind.  I'm going to be looking for another adult female in the next few weeks.

Update?

I may have a 300 gallon rubbermade available soon.  
You are welcome to use it if you want.

AJ

Getting rid of the Rays AJ?

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Yup, been meaning to for awhile.

AJ

At this point the project is on hold.  I have my hands full with the babies that I already have.  I might just use the outdoor tubs for rotifers.

I can understand. 
It's amazing how many things to do pop up when the weather warms.

AJ