Phytoplankton Culture

I think I wasn't exactly all that clear, sorry  I only meant if you intend to buy chemicals, don't limit yourself to the Top Shelf called Sigma

FWIW I don't suggest hobbyists go the route of DIY F2, especially with how cheap, and effective, the over the counter F2 sources are.  Kent, FAF, Fritz, etc etc all have prepared F2s that are cheap, and easy to procure.
 

Amen.

Tal, can you update the first post to remove RMI as a source for single strain phyto cultures?  We do not sell them

Would anyone be willing to sell/ship me a starter culture if ISO?  I've tried two disks from FAF before I found this site and now would rather try it from a normal starter culture as recommended. 
 
I live in Idaho.
 
Thanks!

ill send you some

Can I waken this zombie thread a bit, and ask if anyone uses miracle grow + EE mix up for their phyto cultures? And specifically if they raise out any fish fry on rotifers fed this mix up, how their mortality and deformity rate is? Just curious the success rate on this mix up through the whole picture not just culturing the phyto. 

Never used Miracle Gro and have been warned against it.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Any reasoning for the warnings? Just curious on the reasoning out there. Thanks Fishtal for the response.

Miracle Gro is for terrestrial plants, not marine phytoplankton.  I tried it years ago, and it never worked for me, instead it precipitated something out of the saltwater. I know some people have gotten it to work, but there is no cost advantage to using it, so why not use the stuff that was made for phytoplankton, rather than risk the health of your precious fish larvae? I am all for experimentation, but why look for a different way, when the tried and true works great and costs the same or less?

check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
Captive bred clownfish and more
(Wholesale to the trade.)

Thanks KathyL, 
 
I have been growing phyto via the miracle grow + EE way for many years in our lab, to use for c. Dubia cultures and other whatnots, but I myself am just now personally dabling with saltwater fish rearing and wondered if it's working so well for other things why not this. But I haven't tried it yet, I was genuinely curious if anyone has done it and what the effects were.... 
 
Thanks
 

Again, the Guillard F/2 formula has been demonstrated to produce microalgae with an excellent nutritional profile.  Rotifers, aretemia, copepods, etc., that are fed microalgae grown using Guillard's F/2 have also been demonstrated to have superior nutritional profiles.

Feel free to experiment, but in the overall realm of things for hobbyists to tinker with because they might stumble across something new and useful, this particular variable is very low on the list, IMHO.
 
 

JimWelsh- thanks for the input! I am going to try  the f2 along side the mg + EE method, and compare the results.... it's got me curious!  
 
Thanks everyone! 

With all this talk about fertilizer, why do we use f/2 instead of just f?  The bottle of micro grow says that for f strength, I just double the dose.  I've done it a few times but I don't really know why to do one vs the other. 
 
Anyone care to expound?
 
Thanks

My understanding is that Guillard found that various microalgae grew better when he used the half-strength F medium.  I believe that the issue is not so much the amount of nitrate and phosphate available, as it is the concentration of vitamins and trace metals.  More of a good thing is not always better.  Another issue, if I understand correctly, has to do with precipitation of trace metals at higher concentrations, which can then adsorb other trace metals, both upsetting the nutrient balance and reducing overall nutrient availability.
 
Here is some light reading on the subject:  ftp://84.237.21.152/pub_a...uring%20Techniques.pdf
 

I am having a hard time with nano culture. I have followed instructions on Wittenrich's book and tal's instructions in this thread. The only thing I haven't done is the sterilization with bleach and then de-chlorinization prior to starting the culture. Is this step very important? I don't think I have rotifers in the newly mixed water? I start with a 2 liter bottle filled 1/3 with water(SG 1.018) and add 10 drops of F2 from FAF. I place a rigid tubing producing gentle bubbles. I obtain a culture of nano from a local clown fish breeder and pour into 2 liter bottle to half way (1liter total). I have a 65 watt PC light set about 6" from culture bottle. Instead of turning deeper green within the next several days, I end up with a clear cloudy water bottle the next day! Please help.

 
Yes.

well I can see 2 things wrong with that. 1- the sterilization is an important step. and although you can 'technically' grow it, you will not be able to safe gaurd yourself from contamination and or prevent crashes. and 2- from the local hobbyist is your source. *now, normally a local hobbyist is a pretty good bet for a starter, but please note that you can't garentee your actually getting nanno from them unless you look at it under the scope and check it out yourself. If your source doesn't have sterilization procedures in place either, you could be trying and failing all for not. 
 
look at it under the scope, verify your actually working with nanno and not a contaminated bundle of green water. if it's contaminated- just order a starter from FAF or Seahorse source. then with your new batch (or old- if you determine it to be clean still) start using sterilization procedures. 
 
Good Luck! 
 

Thanks for the information guys. I think there may be a possibility that the water I mixed for my cultures (initially uncovered in a 10 gal tank) may be the source of contamination. I've been using that source for both phytoplankton and rotifer culturing, and maybe a few rotifers got in there. I haven't been doing the bleach but I have used hot water before using bottles, which although it doesn't sterilize, it should not be the source of my problem, I guess? Just a beginner and learning as I go. I'm gonna sterilize everything and start again. I don't think the breeder I am getting phyto from is selling me contaminated stuff. He's got a lot of fish and cultures that depend on his phyto. Question. Can I use refrigerated phyto to start a new culture?

Best regards.

Jazzybio:  How, specifically, can we use a scope to verify that it is Nannochloropsis?  I ask because of this:  Quoting from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nannochloropsis "All of the species are small, nonmotile spheres which do not express any distinct morphological features, and cannot be distinguished by either light or electron microscopy."

Jim- you are right in the sense that you can't scope ID down to species but in a very general sense you can look into a scope and darn well see if things are going solid or not. A good clean Nanno culture will be just as you said green, round, and non motile. But in my experience (and humble opinion) if you are visually inspecting a culture **algae, pods, or whatever it may be** you will tend to catch things. A quick and easy look in a scope would show multiple 'shapes'-round, crescent, and or rods, etc. and or if the culture was motile or not. This should be general enough.
 
All in all, no- you can't get a positive ID, but you can get a good idea of what condition your culture is in. I have had a healthy green nanno culture with nice perfectly round non motile cells and I have had a green 'nanno' culture with all sorts of contamination. And I can tell you that contaminated one will crash every time- much in the same fashion rj's describing. 

Given Jim's reference above about nannochloropsis having no distinct morphological characteristics, I just curious how definitive ID is made by the experts? Does that just refer to the various species of Nannochloropsis being difficult to tell apart, or all green non motile algaes? That said, I'm just a hobbyist and it does really matter to me as long as my cultures are healthy!!

 
Well put!  This is exactly the kind of response I was hoping to elicit.  Thanks!
 

oh jim.. you tease! I know full well you can't get a good ID on 'em... but if you wanted me to write it out and clarify... will do! (hey, maybe you should throw that tidbit in planktopedia.org...) or at least some GOOD pics on the 'learn' pages for each species. I know you have links to ccmp which has photo's but would be nice to see it all in one place. wink wink! 
 
Lrood- it says further down in Jims source : 
...."The characterisation is mostly done by rbcL gene and 18S rDNA sequence analysis"... it also says later on that there nanno lacks the chlorophyll b and c, as one of it's distinguishing characteristics. But all in all I'd say basically it's a bit more than we need to mess with in our hobby! I'd tend to agree with you that as a hobbyist as long as our cultures are healthy... we are happy. 
 
 
 

Question for you phytoplankton gurus:
How much sodium metasilicate is needed to grow diatoms?   I'm either having a mental blank on how to google for this info, or its just not out there.
 
I will place an order from FAF.

check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
Captive bred clownfish and more
(Wholesale to the trade.)

Good question Kathy, I'm in a similar position.  I bought a bunch of mass packs from FAF and need to add silicate for the diatoms and I also await an answer.  I believe that FAF will sell the silicate separately to help us out.

I have another question for the phyto growers out there.  I have 275 gallon totes in a greenhouse under sunlight.  Would nanno and Iso grow OK in totes?  For now, I'm going to leave the 6" circular tops sealed to help prevent contamination, especially on Iso.  But I wonder if anyone else has had experience with these tanks.  I've seen some pics of people that grow phyto in them outdoors for algae biofuel but it seems that once the phyto starts plating on the sides that would be hard to clean off.  Even a chlorine soak after a crash would kill the plated algae but not necessarily remove it from the sides of the container, there would need to be a physical scrubbing which would not be possible unless the tote had an open top.  
 
Thanks in advance.

Has anyone grown phyto in a 275 gallon tote?