Breeding Journal, Species: P. fridmani (Orchid Dottyback)

General
Species:  P. fridmani (Orchid Dottyback)
Social Structure: Mated pair
Size of Individuals:  Female 1.5", Male 2"
Age of Individuals: Male, from ORA on 5-6-08(purchased on 8-3-08) est. 8 months, Female est. 6 months    
Date added to Tank:  Male- 08-03-08 Female- 08-02-08 Lost original female Dec 2011, new wild caught female added May 2012. ~1". Lost original male 10-5-12 to apparent old age. New WC fish acquired 10-23-12, moved from QT on 10-30-12.      

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank: Standard 10 gallons     
Substrate Details: Fine layer of black sand, two lengths of PVC pipe  
Filtration Details: Plumbed with 5 other 10 gallon tanks and a 55 gallon sump/refugium. Filter sock, protein skimmer, refugium with LR, LS, and macroalgae 
Water Changes:
Water Temperature: 81-83F 
Lighting: Standard Shop light
Lighting Cycle: 14hrs light, 10hrs dark
Other Tank Inhabitants: Blue leg hermit crabs 

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types:  Various frozen diets, squid, bloodworms, mysis   
Feeding Schedule: Every four hours starting 1 hour after lights on.  

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn: 10-19-08
Dates of Consecutive Spawns: Every 6-8 days, usually every 7 days. 
Egg Description:  The eggs will be laid in a mass, about 1/2'-3/4" in diameter, consisting of several hundred eggs.  At first the eggs are clear, after a day or so, the eyes will be evident as black spots in each egg.
Behavior:  Spawning usually takes place in the late afternoon.  The male entices the female into the cave for spawning.  Eggs are tended by the male for four days.  In my case, the male's "cave" is not the same piece of PVC that they use for spawning, not sure why.  On the afternoon before the expected hatch, the eggs are removed and placed in an egg tumbler(see below).  The eggs hatch the following morning and need to be moved to the larval tank and fed right away. 
 
Recently I experienced a hatch within an hour of transferring the eggs to the tumbler that was located next to a bright light.
Larval Tank Details
Temperature: 81-83F
Size of Larval Tank: Standard 10 gallons, half full to start. 
Substrate Details: None 
Other Tank Decor: Small piece of LR 
Filtration Details: None until 21 days, then sponge filter.  
Lighting: Screw-in CF bulb w/reflector               
Lighting Cycle: 24/7 until Meta 
Water Changes: Siphon detritus every few days.  20% after 7 days and increase water volume.  

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types: Rotifers, newly hatched brine shrimp, enriched brine shrimp, copepods, Otohime A 
Feeding Schedule: Every 4hrs

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Metamorphosis: Between day 26 and 35 (see below) 
Date of Settlement:

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature: 80-83F 
Size of Grow-Out Tank: Standard 20G 
Substrate Details: None
Other Tank Decor: Small piece of LR
Filtration Details: Plumbed into a central system, approx. 130G 
Lighting: Standard Shop light 
Lighting Cycle: 14hrs light, 10hrs dark 
Water Changes: 20% bi-weekly 
Size at Transfer: 3/4-1" on first batch, see below.  Now I transfer them when they're about 1cm  
Age at Transfer: about 2 months (This was on my first attempt, since then I've been transferring them around 5-6 weeks.) 

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types: Finely crushed flake foods, OtohimeA, Spectrum pellets(small), cyclopeeze soaked in garlic
Feeding Schedule: Every 4 hours 

Additional Information
With my first batch that made it past meta, spawned 7-01-09, I left them in the larval tank for an extra month.  I thought they had died and I let the phyto take over.  I tried culturing copepods in the tank, just for fun, and had no luck.  It turned out that the 3 remaining fry were consuming the copepods.  I transferred them to the grow out tank around 9-28-09.  I've managed to get a higher amounts past the meta point with each consecutive batch.  The first three have since been sold and the next group is about ready for sale.
 
Original pair has been replaced with WC individuals acquired from Divers Den in May and October 2012. 

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Egg Tumbler:  A simple egg tumbler can be made with a glass funnel and airline tubing.  I used a light reflector as a base to support the funnel.  Eggs are placed in the tumbler and "tumbled" with air bubbles.  It takes a bit of parctice to get the bubbles right, not to slow and not too fast.  You just want to make sure that the eggs keep moving and don't get stuck.
 
To help keep the water warm I place the metal base on a reptile heating mat, you could also partially submerge the funnel in a tank with water and a heater.
 
Here is what mine looks like:
 

 And this is what it looks like in action when the eggs hatch:
 
 

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Larval Tank:  A normal 10 gallon, half filled with water to start.  Having the tank only half full allows you to maintain a high density of rotifers during the early stages.  With advice from Witt, I place the heater on the side of the tank and put the airstone between it and the glass.  This provides unidirectional water flow rather than the multidirectional flow that you would get with the airstone in the middle.
 

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Larval Progression:  When they first hatch they are like tiny slivers of glass as you can see in the video above.  Here is what they look like close up...
 
One hour post hatch:
 

 

 


 
One DPH (day post hatch):
 

 


 
2 DPH

 


 
3DPH 

 


4DPH
 

 
  
 
Pre-meta (about 28DPH)
 

 

Post Meta (In my experience, this happens very quickly, almost overnight):
 

 
Transfer to grow out tank:
 

 

 

 
Transfer complete:
 

 
This is the next batch still in the larval tank:
 

 

 

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I don't want to get out of order but I'm going to post pics of the continuing developments as they occur.
 
5 DPH 

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Sorry, I missed day 6, thanks Amy.
 
Here is 7 DPH
 


 
Unfortunately, this little guy didn't make it.  I took too long trying to take the pics.  The video didn't turn out well either. 

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9 DPH
I had a hard time getting this guy to hold still without killing him.
 

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10DPH
This guy was a bit easier to work with, and he survived just fine.
 

 

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11 DPH
 


 
I was also able to catch the broodstock pair in action today around 4:30pm:
 

 
And, the result:
 

 

 

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12 DPH
I tried a new color filter, not sure if I like it...
 

 
 

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13 DPH 
  

 

 
I don't think this one made it.  Heart was still beating but he wasn't breathing.

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Very nice videos.

"The only thing they can get me for is running a funeral parlor without a license." - Gacy.

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14DPH
 

I got these shots of the eye and mouth.  In the first one you can see the teeth, the second one was taken without back light and you can see the eye in better detail.
 

 

 
Additional insight:  Looking back at the previous days I noticed the continuing developement of the tail, it changes almost every day.  The dorsal spines have appeared today as well, or at least I'm able to see them.
I got one to hold still, I think this looks a bit better.  This one doesn't have the same dorsal developement as the other one yet.
 

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Kind of out of order but... here is the male tending to the egg ball in preparation for the hatch.
 

 

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"Making captive breeding easier."

Very nice video's. Hes a good daddy.

"The only thing they can get me for is running a funeral parlor without a license." - Gacy.

http://www.youtube.com/user/D3monicUrges

16 DPH
 

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I tried a new hatching technique that didn't work well for me, back to the egg tumbler.  Got a few pics of the unhatched eggs though.
 

 

 

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I haven't gotten any new pics until today.  The fish on the bottom was damaged during siphoning, the one on top was fine.  They should be going through meta within the next week or so.
 
 

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Meta is getting close, this one wasn't doing well but the rest are doing great.
 

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Video of tonight's hatch.  About an hour after transfer to the tumbler with bright light.  The bright light certainly gets them to pop!  In the second vid you can see how phototaxic they are.  Whith the air off they all swarm toward the light.
 
About halfway through the hatch I transfered at least 400 to the larval tank.
 

 

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Guess it's been a while since I updated this journal. I'm experimenting with the new RotiGreen product from Reed. I tried it with the last batch but I was out of town and wasn't able to monitor it and it failed. Not surprising, I wasn't expecting success since I left my tanksitter in charge of dosing.
 
I've had good luck using this product for my clowns and I'm hoping to see good results with the fridmani. I got a large hatch an hour ago and have moved most of them to the rearing tank. We'll see how it goes. I'm also about finished setting up a BRT station for rearing these fish, just waiting for the Uni-seal from Aquatic Eco-Systems. Should be here on Wed.

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Pics from the first round using BRTs. There were only 5 survivors but I was away for a wekend in the beginning. 

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Very cute!

My adults have started to eat the eggs on day two or three so I decided to pull them early and tumble them. After seeing Chad Vossen's beaker tumbler I decided to try using a 1000ml flask and a small water pump:
 

 

 

 
Hopefully this solves the incubation problem. I checked the last batch of eggs with the microscope and they are viable. 

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have you tried the artemia hatcher? it works great for the marine bettaa and the picticromis almost 90% hatch

Hatching isn't a problem, I use the glass funnel seen above. The problem at this point is incubation since the male doesn't seem to be into it any more. Using the flask I can maintain the temp better than the funnel. That's the theory any way.

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Awesome photos and videos Tal!
I wish I could get eggs from my pair. I think the male could be eating them....

Doni Marie~

I use the artemia hatcher since the eggs are laid

Ok, I got my first decent hatch using the flask to incubate the P. fridmani eggs. This batch was spawned on 04-23-11 and I pulled them on 04-25-11.
 
Most of the eggs seemed to remain viable with little appearance of fungus, if any. The egg mass did seem to break up more than when the parents were incubating them.
 
The flask worked well and the larvae were drawn to the light at the top of the flask and overflowed into the BRT. The one thing I didn't think about was that the small water pump was in the BRT and had the potential to suck the hatched larvae back through. I think I realized this in time and losses were probably minimal due to the low flow of the pump and the fact that the P. fridmani larvae tend to stay near the surface/light source. In the future I'll figure out a way to isolate the intake on the pump. 

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Throw a big sponge on it - like the kind for an Aquaclear 70 or 110.  The 110 is about 3" or so thick - should really solve your problems.

Yeah, the pump came with a sponge cover, I just had it removed.

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I lost my female earlier this year. I was lucky enough to get a new juvenile from Kevin Kohen at Diver's Den in May. After 2 weeks in QT she was moved in with the male with no issues.
 
This morning during the first feeding I walked in on them together in a hanging piece of PVC. Not the normal area the male was used to but... 


 
Haven't seen the male tending to them yet bit it's a start.

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Congrats!  Weird it is in open ended pipe.  Did you sterilize the eggs at all when you incubated them in the flask?

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

Mine have always used an open ended pipe. No, never sterilized them.

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Oh interesting, mine always uses pipe with a cap on it even though there are open ended pipes available.
 
 

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

Lost the original male on 10-5-12.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

Update: I got a new, smaller, wild caught fish to pair with the one I got earlier in the year. The one I got in May will, hopefully, transition to male soon. The new one is pretty small so I'm not sure how long it will take for them to spawn.

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Took mine 3 months to start spawning.  I lost the female though, and the new female was about 1.25".

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

Tal, which copepods were in the larvae tank you mention on page 1?

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]