Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish)

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Fishtal
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Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Monday, November 16, 2009 8:30 PM
Breeding Journal DataSheet
This first post should be updated regularly to include new information as events take place or changes are made to your system

General
Species: P. kauderni 
Social Structure: Mated pair 
Size of Individuals: 2"
Age of Individuals: Approx 1.5yrs (I won them at MACNA 2008 from ORA, they were juveniles then.) 
Date added to Tank: 9-07-08 

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank: Sump, approx 11G 
Substrate Details: 3" sand, LR, various types of macroalgae.
Filtration Details:
Water Changes: 30% bi-weekly
Water Temperature: 80-82F
Lighting: CF bulb with reflector 
Lighting Cycle:  14hrs light, 10hrs light 
Other Tank Inhabitants: Diadema urchin

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types: Various frozen foods including squid, enriched with RatioHUFA.  Occasional enriched brine shrimp, seems to induce spawn. 
Feeding Schedule: Every 4 hours.

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn: 10-30-08 
Dates of Consecutive Spawns: 12-25-08, 5-15-09, 8-09-09, 11-27-09 

Larval Tank Details
Temperature: 82°F
Size of Larval Tank: 10G    
Substrate Details: None
Other Tank Decor: Small piece of LR, macro algae, fake urchin. There are also a few pre-meta P. fridmani in the tank as well.
Filtration Details: Sponge filter
Lighting: CF bulb with reflector
Lighting Cycle: 14hrs light, 10hrs dark 
Water Changes: Siphon detritus as needed, 20% everyother day. 

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types: NHBS and copepods from the time the male releases them.
Feeding Schedule:

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Metamorphosis:
Date of Settlement: 11-19-09

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature: ~82°F
Size of Grow-Out Tank: 20
Substrate Details:
Other Tank Decor:
Filtration Details: Plumbed into grow out system
Lighting: Shop light
Lighting Cycle: 14hrs light, 10hrs dark
Water Changes:
Size at Transfer:
Age at Transfer: ~26 days post release

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types: Frozen Cyclopeeze, Otohime A and finely crushes flake foods
Feeding Schedule: Every 4hrs

Additional Information
The male Banggai incubates the eggs in his mouth where the eggs hatch, around day 19 post spawn.  When the fry are released they are fully developed, about 4-5mm.  I removed my male on day 23 and he spit the fry into a net.  Twelve survivors and two casualties.  NHBS and copepods were provided at this point.


When transferring juveniles DO NOT use a net, use a clear glass cup or plastic container. Juveniles are very prone to stress.

In my experience so far, I've found that if I leave them in the 10G rearing tank much longer than 3 weeks I start to lose a few. The latest batch was moved directly to grow out on day 26 after I lost a few and I haven't lost any since. 




<message edited by Fishtal on Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:17 PM>
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Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Monday, November 16, 2009 8:35 PM
This is the male holding eggs before they were moved to the sump area:
 

 

 
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Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Friday, December 18, 2009 7:06 PM
Update:
 
I noticed that the male stopped eating on November 27th.  He didn't have a lot of eggs but some.  Here is some pics from today (22 Days):
 

 

 
I could see some babies in there but couldn't get better pics, he's shy.  This is the longest that he's held, I'm hoping for the best.
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Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Friday, December 18, 2009 10:23 PM
Just shot some video.  Not the best quality but you can see the babies moving.  Must be getting close.
 

 

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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, December 19, 2009 5:20 AM
Day 22 time to strip those babies before you lose to many!


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Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, December 19, 2009 3:01 PM
Well, I took Scott's advice and pulled the male to get the babies, actually I pulled the female on accident.  Needless to say, she was none too happy when I pried her mouth open, LOL.
 
When I got the male in the net I set him in the rearing tank and he spit them right out so I let him go in the tank while I let the babies go.  Netted Dad back up and returned him to the sump.
 
These are the cutest things!  Just like Witt said, miniature adults.  Check them out:
 
This one, of 2, didn't handle the transfer...
 

 
This is right after the transfer:
 

 

 

 
And an hour later:
 

 

 

 
Video is on it's way.
 
 
 
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DLBerlin
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, December 19, 2009 3:21 PM
Great Tal!
I found they were pretty sensitive to transfer also.

Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, December 19, 2009 3:24 PM
Quote Originally Posted by DLBerlin


Great Tal!
I found they were pretty sensitive to transfer also.

It might've been my fault.  The temp was a little low, another malfunctioning heater.   The rest seem to be ok.
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Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, December 19, 2009 3:37 PM
Ten little Indians in an "urchin".  The other two are still hanging out in the corner.  I wonder if I should try to nudge them over there...
 

 
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mhowe9
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, December 19, 2009 5:57 PM
Great Tal! 

I know that you have been waiting for Baby Banggai's for awhile

Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, December 19, 2009 6:14 PM
Yeah, I was pretty excited that he held to term this time.  Hopefully even more next time now that he's got it down.
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Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, December 19, 2009 7:54 PM
Here is a composite of one of the two that didn't survive the transfer process.  Not one of my best but you can get an idea.
 

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Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, December 19, 2009 10:24 PM
Full bellies after their first meal, WAY too cute!:
 

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Scottt
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, December 19, 2009 10:50 PM
They really like your urchin :-)  awesome work Tal, and papa banggai

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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Sunday, December 20, 2009 5:25 AM
Tal, they don't transfer well a lot of time they will just lay down, but the doesn't mean they died even thought it doesn't look like they're breathing.  If you just let them be for about 15 mins he'll "wake" back up and start swimming again.  Mine do that all the time.  I use to make the mistake by pulling them out after a couple mins but found if I waited about 30 mins come back down and look they're all swimming.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Sunday, December 20, 2009 5:26 AM
So How many did you end up with?
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Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Sunday, December 20, 2009 12:42 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Aquatic Aquaman


Tal, they don't transfer well a lot of time they will just lay down, but the doesn't mean they died even thought it doesn't look like they're breathing.  If you just let them be for about 15 mins he'll "wake" back up and start swimming again.  Mine do that all the time.  I use to make the mistake by pulling them out after a couple mins but found if I waited about 30 mins come back down and look they're all swimming.


There were 14 fry.  One of them did what you described and "woke up" after a bit but there were two that definately weren't breathing, I waited a while as you suggested. 
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Thursday, December 24, 2009 7:04 AM
Good Work Tal.  So, how did you pry open the female's mouth?
Rook

Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Thursday, December 24, 2009 11:18 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Rook


Good Work Tal.  So, how did you pry open the female's mouth?

Thanks.  Yeah, the female probably wondered what I was looking for.  I just used my finger.  The male spit them out as soon as I got the net in the water.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, December 26, 2009 12:15 AM
Here they are six days post release:
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:43 PM
My three Banggai, and two P. fridmani, just transfered to grow out.  26 days post release:



Pics from the side didn't turn out well, cam wanted to focus on the netting.  
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:40 AM
How are these guys doing?  Hopefully they are still living.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:19 AM
They're doing fine.  Starting to eat cyclopeeze and dry foods.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:05 PM
Tomorrow is day 60!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Wednesday, February 17, 2010 6:06 PM
Here is the sole survivor:









I'm not sure why I had such a tough time with these guys.  I started with 12, down to 3 when I moved them to grow out.  The larger one (survivor) was pestering the smaller ones so they had to be moved... didn't like being moved.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:16 PM
Cool I can't wait to see him.

Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:12 PM
I noticed the male not eating on 01-04-10 and I decided to pull him this evening.  

Well, it didn't go as smoothly as the first time.  I just about had him in the net, yes I got the male on the first try this time, and he jumped over the baffle, argh!  Next time I design a sump I'll make the baffles more than an inch apart.

I the process of trying to get him out he started spitting the babies out.  I think I got them all and ended up with 19 this time.  

Learning from my past mistakes I'm hoping to have a much better survival rate this time.











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Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:44 PM
I just found two that were hanging out at the other end of the tank. I gently suggested that they join the group. I'll take more pics tomorrow to confirm that there are actually 21 now.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Friday, February 26, 2010 6:34 PM
I definitely have 21 now.





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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Friday, February 26, 2010 10:31 PM
Awwwwww.    Good going, human daddy!

Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Saturday, March 20, 2010 8:22 PM
Here are some new pics, 23 days post release. I'll be moving them next week.













I've lost two so I have 19 left. Learning from my mistakes last time I should do better with this group.
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Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Sunday, April 4, 2010 2:52 PM
Bad news. The lone survivor that made it past 60 days doesn't seem to be doing well.

He's been in with a bunch of clown juveniles for several weeks and doing just fine. A few days ago he started hanging out near the bottom and not eating. Yesterday I isolated him in a breeder net and he's still not eating and hanging at the bottom. I don't know what went wrong, all of the other juveniles in the system are doing great.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Wednesday, April 14, 2010 12:37 PM
Just had a release of 20-22 baby Banggers.  
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Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Wednesday, April 14, 2010 6:42 PM






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jmrybak
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Wednesday, April 14, 2010 10:14 PM
Wow, i didnt know cardinalfish where mouth brooders. Do you take them from the fathers mouth b/c hes eating them or is there something else? those orchids look amazing too!

Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Wednesday, April 14, 2010 11:21 PM
Yes, they are mouthbrooders. Banggai males incubate the eggs for about 21 days, during which time they fast.

Making sure the male is adequately feed before this period is essential. Imagine not eating for 21 days and having a mouthful of eggs... It is possible to leave the eggs/juveniles with the male up until the time of release. Depending on the type of tank environment you'll have varying degrees of survival. If there is not adequate hiding places for the young juveniles they can often become food for the hungry father.

It is for this reason that I remove the male around the 21 day mark and coax him to spit the juveniles out. The male is then returned to the original tank and the juveniles are fed newly hatched brine shrimp.

It is also important to start feeding the male heavily after releasing the juvenile fry as the female can often be ready to spawn again in a few days. He needs to bulk up quickly.

This is off the top of my head and I may need to edit it tomorrow.



 
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: P. kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish) - Friday, November 12, 2010 8:37 PM
The latest clutch was pretty small. Only got 4 but here they are 7 days post release:

 






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