Breeding Journal, Species: Copperbanded Cardinal Fish (Apogon margaritophorus)

Thanks, now where do I get a glass funnel?

I found mine on ebay. Shop around for them, they can be kinda pricey.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Ok I'll look around.  

The male still has the eggs!  I think he's starting to get the hang of this!

WOOOOH! 4 days!  He's held the eggs for 4 days!  So far the longest he's gone!  And I see little black baby fish eyes in the eggs in his mouth!

So I put the trap in to try and catch him in since I think the eggs are going to hatch very soon!

Any idea if after they hatch, if he will still keep the larvae in his mouth for a short time?

Still has the eggs in his mouth.  That means it takes at least 6+ days for the eggs to hatch.  Making progress here!!!!

Now the eggs are more clear than pink and I can see eyes and a few other unknown black baby fish parts in his mouth!!!

I don't know what to do!  I don't know what to do!

Making some good progress.  Just try and relax.  I don't have any advice other than that.

I think you are supposed to wait till they actually hatch but with them being so close you might be able to tumble them to finish them up.

Your kinda in uncharted waters for the most part so It's going to be a guessing game.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Yeah I know.  I don't think anyone has ever gotten this far before?  And catching him is a whole other story...

Oh and I'm not freaking out, I'm just excited!

Well, after seven days in the male's mouth, I finally caught him, got the eggs out, and put them in a tupperware container (all I had at the moment) with an air line.  Almost immediately little fish started swimming around! 

Video coming shortly.   
  
So, am I the first to successfully hatch Copper Cards in captivity?  







What should I feed?  I don't have any live stuff right now.  Anyone have anything I could buy from you?

This is great. From what I read you need to get them eating small-strain rotifers. Copepod nauplii would be a good idea as well. 

I have rotifers, probably L-strain, but I'm sure there are nauplii in with them that would be of use. I have copepods too. Give me a shout if you want to come over and get some.  

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Awww, green eyes just like me .

Ok :::Update:::

So now, the larvae are in 2g of water in a 5g bucket with an air hose and with copepod nauplii (courtesy of Tal) and with some DTs for the nauplii to eat.

Thanks Tal!

tagging along for this one!!

Pelagically yours,
~J      

Where's the rotifers?  Or are you going ONLY with copepods?

I gave him rotifers too, I think he just forgot to mention them. I gave him the copepods so he was ready for step step two.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Oops, yeah forgot to mention it.  I'm ready for these little buggers! Pics of a ~1 day old coming shortly...

ah just caught the glass funnel post

look at wine shops, glass funnels are used often to fill decanters as well as aerate the wine.  I picked up a decanter and glass funnel a long while ago from www.wineenthusiast.com that I typically use for wine but  well... it's seen the tank from time to time... now that I poke around trying to find it I see a ton of stuff I should probably snag up on to use!!  In any case, make sure you pick up lead free!

Also may want to look at the "cleaning beads" that they carry, they are small stainless steel ball bearings that can be used inside glass and plasticware to "scrub" away filament.  I use them a lot to clean my culture vessels.

Pelagically yours,
~J      

One like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Pyrex-Glass-Funnel-8-H-x-5-OD_W0QQitemZ220604406867QQcategoryZ11812QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4978.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D1%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8233603363241915821#ht_1165wt_704
is more likely a better value. They can get really pricey, especially when they use words like laboratory and vintage.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Thanks guys!  I'll look into getting one for a tumbler.

Here's a ~1 day old larvae pic.  This one seems to have a deformed spine. Maybe it will straighten out as he grows. Sorry these pics aren't too great.  I'm using a cheap digital microscope and the fish is constantly darting around.

I wonder how long his yolk sack will last, it looks like two days until it starves if it is not fed good luck with them .  Also how are you getting them onto the microscope slide? (Maybe that is how it got damaged)

I got it on the slide with a syringe without the needle.  The hole is way too wide to cause the damage.  Also, remember, they are literally swimming in food!  I think I've seen them chasing and maybe even darting at food!

I know I was just saying that it looked like they would starve if they were not fed for three days after hatching.  COOL about them eating!!!!!!  I was just wondering what you were using to get them out, your method sounds fine; that is the same thing that I use for getting my larval clowns under the microscope.

Soon I'll need to delicately use a turkey baster if they live!

Here's the video of the minute old larvae I took yesterday right after they hatched.



Be sure to watch it in 1080HD!

http://www.youtube.com/wa.h?v=JIeBGdOborM&hd=1

~2 Days 


And Here's where we stand so far:

Through three days:

Cool pictures, looks like its yolk sack is almost gone.  Could you try to get a picture of it laying on its side, that way we would be able to see the stomach size more easily to see how much they are eating.  Great pictures though .

I'll try later.

Through day 4:

I'm not seeing full guts...

Through ~5 days: 

Yeah, still looks as though they're not eating anything...the gut is clear.  Are you observing the larvae making any feeding strikes at rotifers?

Ok- GREAT NEWS!!!  I SEE FULL TUMMIES!!! Look at day 6! Almost all the remaining 10 or so larvae have full or almost full guts now!  Guess they were unable to eat the rotifers till just recently.

NICE.  Congratulations on getting something in the guts.  A step forward.  Wittenrich can probably comment on this with more accuracy than I could, but I do notice that the yolk was not absorbed until day 3.  Now, I would've assumed that the parental Cardinalfish would have incubated the babies until that point, but who knows.  Regardless, it is quite possible that the first time the baby was ready to feed was at day 3.  And as we know from some other marine fish, feedings on the first day are seldom successful.

Still, there is something that's changed in your rearing process that has helped tip this last 10 larvae onto feeding.  Recreating the environment you have at this point, earlier in the next batch, may get them feeding earlier next time, which will give you a better shot at long term success.  Stick with it!

Matt

IDK?  I changed their water while transfering them to a 5.5g tank rather than the bucket.  Other than that... IDK

I'm going to check on them soon.  Update for today coming...

Day 7.  This one has a full full gut!

8 days in!  This is the healthiest of the group.

Yeah full bellies .  Are these pictures taken at the same magnification as they were day 1?

Well being a cheap digital microscope, there is no scale and no measurement to tell me the magnification.  I do know that I tried to get as close as possible without being blurry so that means it is extremely close to being the same for each one.  I'm going to get a real microscope once I get some extra $$$.

What scope are you using?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."