Breeding Journal, Species: Elacatinus oceanops (Neon goby)

General
Species: Elacatinus oceanops (Neon goby)
Social Structure: M/F pair (hopefully)     
Size of Individuals: Male (I think) just under 1", Female (I think) just over 1"     
Age of Individuals: Unknown
Date added to Tank: The smaller fish was added on 12=05-09, the larger on 1-11-01 New pair was acquired 09-12-2011

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank: 3G pico   
Substrate Details:  None   
Filtration Details: HOB filter 
Water Changes: 100% about every 3 weeks    
Water Temperature: Ambient ~upper 70's    
Lighting: Stock PC fixture    
Lighting Cycle: 14hrs light, 10hrs dark 
Other Tank Inhabitants: None


Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types: Variety of frozen foods               
Feeding Schedule: 4 times per day, every 4hrs

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn: 02-25-2012
Spawn Time of Day: Not sure, sometime before 4pm
Dates of Consecutive Spawns: I'm estimating 03-12-12 (I was out of town from 3-9 to 3-12 and they were here when I got back)
CourtShip Details: Unseen this time
Egg Size: ~1.5mm
Egg Color: Clear'ish, hard to tell since they're in a pvc pipe
Egg Count: Hard to tell, see above

Hatch Details
Hatch Date: 03-04-2012
Hatch Time of Day: 8pm, a couple of hours after lights out
# Days after Spawn: 6
Larve Description: Clear, slight blue'ish tint  


Larval Tank Details
Temperature: 28°C
Size of Larval Tank: 20G BRT half full
Substrate Details:none      
Other Tank Decor: none
Filtration Details: None yet
Lighting: CF clamp light
Lighting Cycle: 14 light, 10 dark
Water Changes:

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types: Rotifers with RotiGreen
Feeding Schedule: Continuous 

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start:
Days after Hatch:
Date of Settlement End:
Description of Fry:

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature:
Size of Grow-Out Tank:
Substrate Details:
Other Tank Decor:
Filtration Details:
Lighting:
Lighting Cycle:
Water Changes:
Size at Transfer:
Age at Transfer

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types:
Feeding Schedule:

Additional Information
I initially purchased two fish and placed them in a breeder net in the 10G.  Within a hour one had jumped out of the net and into the tank, so I figured they were both the same sex.  It took a few weeks for my LFS to get more in.  Today I returned one and picked up another.  It's slightly bigger and seems a but "plumper" as described by Witt.  They appear to be getting along, we'll see what happens. New pair was acquired 09-12-2011.
First hatch was on 03-04-12, about 50 hatched. On the 5th about 75% of the eggs remained unhatched so I shook the pipe as suggested and the majority of the rest hatched. Estimating I have ~150 now.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

I "think" I might have a M/F pair now... they seem to be getting along.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Well, I ended up losing the pair.  They were doing fine then came down with something.  Not exactly sure what it was.  I did a FW dip on them and moved them to QT.  I treated them with Melafix, Pimafix and formalin just to cover all the bases.  I also gave them a 45 min bath in ParaGuard on the 3rd day.

The smaller fish was dead the morning after the bath, it was looking the worst.  The larger one jumped 3 days later.  Not sure if I want to try again or not.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Sorry Tal , I know the troubles of fish disease.  One year ago I lost my whole tank to disease, it almost got me out of the hobby. (Good thing that didn't happen)

Ok, I'm giving this species a reboot after some post-MACNA inspiration and Adam giving me one of the 3G pico tanks that he won. I picked up two fish today from Mobys, hopefully a M/F pair, and will keep them in the pico. I cleaned off the shelf above the seahorse tank that was just collecting clutter so I acquired some new space, woo hoo!
 
I learned that E. oceanops are more likely to spawn at lower temps so I will not be heating the tank and depending on ambient temp. At this point the decor plan is a few PVC pipes and an Euphyllia skeleton/LR. No substrate. I might go with a more industrial looking setting, we'll see.
 
I'm giving them some time to get adjusted so I'll take some pics tomorrow. They are hanging out together in the same pipe though so I'm hopeful that I did in fact get a pair.  

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Good news, cant wait to see what can happen in this 3G

-Adam

The lights make the pics a lot bluer than it really is, but here it what I have so far.
 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Nice! They'll be spawning within a month I bet

Doni Marie~

Observations: Up until tonight's feeding these guys have been ravenous eaters. When I fed them a few minutes ago they ignored the food and I noticed that one is looking kinda plump. I also saw them swimming in the "T" formation that Witt mentions in his book so...
 
 
The one that is on the rock is the one that looks plump.
 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

What temperture are they?  sure looks promising!

Ambient/room temp, no heater. I'd say mid-70's.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

mine, too.  I'll have to start heating if it gets any colder here.   My plan is to let them get to 72 for a week, and then slowly bring it up to 80. I've seen 2 of the 5 hanging together in a PVC den. Still, it's hard to tell male from female until they start spawning.

Well, I did a 100% water change yesterday and today I found this...
 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Yay Tal!

Woohoooooooooooo!!!  Congrats!

Nice work. I look forward the following the rest of the journey.

Here a e few more pics:
 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

looks Great Tal glad to see that you got eggs! 

Time to ramp up your rotifers.  These guys eat more than clownfish larvae do.

Thanks for the tip. I'll keep an eye on my cultures.
 
Edit- I just checked on the eggs and they are gone. Guess I'll have to wait for the next batch.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Very cool!
 

Ok, so this is pretty weird. As I reported yesterday, the eggs were gone. I checked today and this is what I found...
 




 
If you look closely at the last pic you can see a kinda clear area beneath where the eggs are now. The previous eggs were located in that area. Has anyone heard of them re-spawning so quickly?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Nice!  Excellent photos, too.

Hey Tal.  Mine have spawned in as few as 2 after the last eggs hatched.  In your first pics the eggs had been there for several days as the eyes were developed.  I am wondering what the incubation time may be due to the reduced temps.  Mine are in a tank in my main broodstock system and spawn regularly at 80 deg F. 

Good to know. There is no way the first eggs were there before the 25th. I did a 100% water change and cleaned the pvc with a toothbrush. I compared the pics from Sat and today to make sure the pipe hadn't simply rolled (the new clutch is located a bit "higher" up the inside of the pipe and less visible) but that wasn't the case. There is a nick on the end of the pipe, from cutting, that is in the same place in all pics.
 
Witt points out that they like cooler temps, no heater in the tank, but it is covered with a plastic lid that may retain some heat.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Don't let too much time go by before you start hatching nests.  These guys have a relatively short lifespan, and they can stop spawning before you know it.  

I know about their short lifespan. Have you ever had this happen before?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Pics from today, four days post-spawn.
 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Vids...
 
http://s99.photobucket.co...p;current=P3020013.mp4
http://s99.photobucket.co...p;current=P3020011.mp4

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

How long are you going to wait until you pull them
 

Probably around day 7. I'm keeping an eye on them.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Very nice Tal!

-Adam

Thanks, we'll see what happens

O

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

My experience is limited to this:
I had two pairs spawning, and I got two batches of eggs grown up to adulthood. The broodstock stopped spawning, and I never got the progeny to spawn.  This may be due to something other than their short lifespan.
 
That said, one of my original fish is going on year 4, fat and happy.  How long is their lifespan?
 
 I've recently learned that they need a period of cooler temps to spawn, and although I've tried this once with my current group of 4, no spawning has occurred. I am presently trying it again.  72 F  for a week or so.

I put a thermometer in to check the temp. There is no heater in the tank so I'm assuming it is mid 70s. Matt posted this info on my facebook wall and wanted to share it here:
 Matthew Pedersen "Yeah, incubation periods can actually be measured in thermal units. They call it cumulative temperature or "degree days". In other words, the rate of development is directly tied to temperature (slower at lower temps)...this is why warmer temps cause Harlequin Filefish to spawn later in the day, whereas cool temps push it to earlier in the day (because the filefish intuititively adjust the spawn time to result in a dusk hatching basically...so cooler temps = more dev time = spawn earlier to get the same ending time."

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Apparently my temp is a bit higher than I thought. If the digital thermometer on my TDS meter is correct the pico is running at 84°F or 29°C! I've been keeping the fishroom door closed and didn't realize the temp was that high. Air temp is 27°C.
 
I was going to wait until tomorrow to pull the eggs but I'm thinking I should do it tonight.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Pics from tonight:
 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

At least that dispels the theory that they spawn better at cooler temps then.

Nice pics Tal!  I'm wondering if having 6-8 in a 10-20G tank with pvc wouldn't be a bit easier for egg production/collection?  If they are spawning that fast for you, heck you'd be getting 2-3 nests a week

They started hatching around 8pm after I turned the lights off. Here is a quick vid. Sorry, I'm having issues with youtube.
 
http://s99.photobucket.co...p;current=P3040009.mp4
 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."