Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Darwin Black"

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mPedersen
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Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Darwin Black" - Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:20 PM
Breeding Journal DataSheet for Amphiprion ocellaris "Darwin"

General
Species: Amphiprion ocellaris - the unique "Black" form originating from Darwin.
Social Structure: Male Female Pair
Size of Individuals: Female almost 3", male around 2"
Age of Individuals: Approximately 4 years at this time
Date added to Tank: Female was purchased 11/2/2006 from a LFS with a partner. The partner vanished on 1-7-2007, and was replaced with the fish that became the current male from RPI stock on 1-14-2007.  I believe this male was known to be around 4-5 months of age when I got him.

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank: ultimately the pair has spent most of their lives in a 6 gallon nanocube.
Substrate Details: live sand
Filtration Details: stock nanocube filtration
Water Changes: roughly 50%, once or twice per month.
Water Temperature: 82F
Lighting: 2 X 18 watt PC (a Nanocustom's tank)
Lighting Cycle: 12 hours on, on timer
Other Tank Inhabitants: For a while, they shared their tank with a Yasha Hase Goby.  The pair is kept with a Red Bubble Tip Anemone host.

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types: Virtually anything you could imagine...multiple types of pellet foods, frozen foods, squid, cyclopeeze, Rod's Food etc..
Feeding Schedule: At least twice a day, but usually more.

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn: 5/8/2008     
Spawn Time of Day: early afternoon
Dates of Consecutive Spawns: - spawns have been sporadic and random for the past 1.5 years.
CourtShip Details: The day of the spawn, the male and female both intensely clean the nest site.
Egg Size: approximately 2 mm in lenght
Egg Color: orange
Egg Count: the first spawn was less than 50 eggs.  Largest spawns to date have been several hundred, possibly almost to 1000.

Hatch Details
Hatch Date: - early spawns did not make it more than a day or two...
Hatch Time of Day:
# Days after Spawn:
Larve Description:


Larval Tank Details
Temperature:
Size of Larval Tank:
Substrate Details:
Other Tank Decor:
Filtration Details:
Lighting:
Lighting Cycle:
Water Changes:

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types:
Feeding Schedule:

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start:
Days after Hatch:
Date of Settlement End:
Description of Fry:

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature:
Size of Grow-Out Tank:
Substrate Details:
Other Tank Decor:
Filtration Details:
Lighting:
Lighting Cycle:
Water Changes:
Size at Transfer:
Age at Transfer

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types:
Feeding Schedule:

Additional Information
Miscellaneous Information:

I originally kept track of this project first on Reef Central - http://www.reefcentral.org/forums/showthread.php?t=963740
Then, updated again when  they spawned for the first time, on MOFIB - http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2630

For my past experiences, refer to the above threads.  As this is a current project, new posts will be made below
<message edited by cmpenney on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 8:04 AM>

mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:21 PM
I don't remember what date we moved the fish from Chicago to Duluth, but it was around September, 2009.  It took until January 8th, 2010, for the Black Ocellaris pair to spawn.  The surprising part was the fact that they stopped laying eggs on the rockwork and finally used the tiles!  That, and the spawn was massive compared to all others.  Still more surprising was that the eggs appeared to go to full term for the first time, disappearing overnight on in the transition from the 17th to 18th.

Something must be going right, because today, January 27th, 2010, they laid another, even bigger, massive nest of eggs.  My calculations put hatching due to occur the night of February 6th

Here's some pictures from tonight's spawn:

















Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:25 PM
Ya know...
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mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:51 AM
Ya know what?

Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Thursday, January 28, 2010 12:19 PM
Quote Originally Posted by mPedersen


Ya know what?



You're killing me with the awesome pics!  BTW, I see you're using a single tile.  I just switched mine over to tiles but I'm using the "lean-to" set up... Obviously you don't have room for that in your case.  I hope mine do nice neat rows like that too.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Wednesday, February 3, 2010 10:31 AM
so Big boo today - The eggs developed fast, they were fully eyed yesterday,which told me they'd either hatch last night or tonight.  So after lights out, between 9:00 PM and 1:30 AM, I periodically had the pumps off.  I don't know if the pump shutoffs did it, or something else was to blame, but today, the nest is dead and 50% gone.  And No Hatch that I'm aware of!

GRRR.

BTW - I needed to come back and add - strangly, it almost looked as if the pair was going to SPAWN again last night.  Female is huge, and they were circling around on the tile.  I thought I might end up with a double nest.  Something got botched here...and I'm blaming myself at the moment...

Matt
<message edited by mPedersen on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 12:58 PM>

mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:31 PM
2-13-09 - they put down another massive nest.  Will try not to botch it this next time around

mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Friday, February 19, 2010 6:17 PM
This is the nest spawned on the 13th.  It turned silver today, 6 days post spawn (Feb. 19th).  Based on when it turned, I'm guessing it should hatch tomorrow night, 7 days in.  I don't have a functional thermometer on this tank, but I'm guessing it's at least 82-84F.  What do you guys think?




Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Friday, February 19, 2010 8:05 PM
Looks nice.  My Darwins seem to hatch on night 8-9 but I'm keeping them a bit cooler, ~82°, and pull the tile so that may be slowing mine down.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Friday, February 19, 2010 11:12 PM
Well, came home from the Wilco show @ the DECC, having delayed any possible hatch from 9 PM to Midnight now, the lights just went out.  I have to say, when we came home, both parents were paying particular interest in the eggs - behavior that I normally associate with hatch night.  So I am now camped out, watching things in the moonlight periodically, just to make sure there's no funny hatching business going on tonight!

mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Friday, February 19, 2010 11:58 PM
No hatch has come off (a good thing) so I took a peak with the flashlight just to be sure.  If you ask me, something about the eggs doesn't look quite right..i.e. it looks like they're dead?  Let's hope that's just my imagination.

mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Saturday, February 20, 2010 9:57 AM
Well, maybe the eggs are still alive.  Pretty convinced that tonight will be the hatch then..will be watching carefully.

mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Saturday, February 20, 2010 10:41 PM
So the eggs weren't dead, and thus begins another stressful evening of wondering IF they'll hatch.  I'm guessing they won't, as it's now been almost 4 hours since the main tank lights went out.  That forces hatch day to be Sunday, day 8, and more on par with what we might expect.  Still...will keep checking in..

mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:59 AM
Once again no hatch, so this one tonight is the real deal.  Has to be!  I may pull the tile and hatch them in the larval tank... I really don't want to deal with the anemone catching all my babies....

mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:52 PM
So, here's what the nest looked like this morning:





mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:05 PM
Pulled the tile tonight at 8:00 PM (lights went out on the broodstock around 8:10) and placed it in a 10 gallon tank which I sterilized (bleached, dechlored, drained, rinsed, dechlored, drained again).  About 2.5 gallons of water from the broodstock cube, and another 2 or so of clean new 1.025 saltwater I mixed up around 7 PM.  Set it up just as I've done in the past, using the basic method shown to me by Joe Lichtenbert, airstone bubbling up over the eggs along the tile (yes, direct contact).  Taped a dark paper brochure over the glass to darken out any external light coming through the glass...

mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:12 PM
9:10 PM, just checked, we have a hatch!  WHOOO HOO!  A new first for Black Ocellaris for yours truly!

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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:17 PM
Congratulations Matt!

Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:27 PM
Cool congrats Matt!  Let us know in the morning what percentage hatched.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:27 PM
I posted this with my "hatch report" "other info" -> I wonder if in fact I will once again be subject to hatches split over 2 days.  Many of the eggs remained unhatched on the tile...I moved things around and left the tile in the tank...will check it tomorrow to see if the eggs are still alive.  MOST of the larvae that hatched, when checked after midnight, were found on the bottom of the tank.  I added 20 drops of RotiGreen, as well as a gallon's worth of rotifers, and left the tank lights on to hopefully get the weary larvae up off the tank bottom to start feeding.  No clue why this happens - it seems to be a regular issue with my clownfish.  Will update this report if more eggs hatch on the 9th night.

Overall, if I had to take a while stab at this, I wonder if either the parents would've done a better job of hatch, or if I STILL pulled the nest a day too early?!  I wonder about the day too early part, because these babies all had nice round stomachs with plenty of "yolk" to consume, yet they're mostly all ending up on the bottom of the tank shortly after hatching???

Pictures are the proof (and this newer camera just SUCKS!)





mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Monday, February 22, 2010 9:44 AM
Added in more RotiGreen.  For some reason, the babies are all alive apparently, but most are swimming at the bottom.  This ordinarily suggests that the light is too bright, right?  Time to make an adjustment...

Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Monday, February 22, 2010 11:01 AM
Quote Originally Posted by mPedersen


Added in more RotiGreen.  For some reason, the babies are all alive apparently, but most are swimming at the bottom.  This ordinarily suggests that the light is too bright, right?  Time to make an adjustment...



I've not used RotiGreen.  I've seen larvae hang out near the bottom, or sides, in two instances... 


In the morning soon after the lights come on, still sleepy.

If the phyto isn't "green" enough.  In my use of GW, if I can see the bottom, it's not dense enough... if I add a bit more that gets them back into the water column right away.  I start cutting back on phyto after day four when I start Oto A.  

With my last batch of regular A. ocellaris I got ahead of myself and added the sponge filter on day 7 instead of 14, with no ill effects.  
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Monday, February 22, 2010 11:36 AM
Tal, I'm gonna ask you to elaborate a bit further on your density of phyto in your clowns.  You add enough so that you can't see the tank bottom, but how deep is the actual water column when you're viewing from above.

It looks like overall, the babies are alive, and more are up in the water column at this point.  As both Tal and I have kindof alluded to, this is probably a lighting intensity thing now (but it certainly wasn't when they initially hatched last night).  I see very few if any dead fish so far...

Matt

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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Monday, February 22, 2010 11:36 AM
Tal, I'm gonna ask you to elaborate a bit further on your density of phyto in your clowns.  You add enough so that you can't see the tank bottom, but how deep is the actual water column when you're viewing from above.

It looks like overall, the babies are alive, and more are up in the water column at this point.  As both Tal and I have kindof alluded to, this is probably a lighting intensity thing now (but it certainly wasn't when they initially hatched last night).  I see very few if any dead fish so far...

Matt

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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Monday, February 22, 2010 11:55 AM
With my clowns I start with a standard 10 gallon that's about half full, so 5 gallons.  Over the next 14 days I increase the water volume when I siphon out detritus until it's about full.

At half full I don't want to be able to see the bottom.  I've never used a sechi disk to be that exact, I just eyeball it.  Like I mentioned, if I see them start to hang out near the sides I add more phyto and that does the trick.  It is at this point I start to see the bottom too...

I'm no expert but I disagree with it being a light intensity issue, I see it more as a visibility issue... unless you're blasting them with a 500w MH bulb  Edgar uses those super bright work lights for his dottys and swears by them but dottys are a different case.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Monday, February 22, 2010 1:15 PM
Have been dripping in clean new SW.  Added 30 more drops of RotiGreen...it's now REALLY green in that larval tank.  Seems to have done nothing to get the babies on the bottom up off the bottom though.  Keeping in mind the wise advice of Kathy Leahy who reminded me that Black O's are prone to misbarring, which means I'll have to pay close attention to water quality over the next couple weeks.  It DOES look like overall I have a good healthy batch going.  I checked the tile and most of the eggs on it are still viable, so that could mean a hatch tonight again????

Stranger things have happened...

Matt

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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Monday, February 22, 2010 2:13 PM
Did you explain you larval set up for these guys?   I may have missed it...

I agree with Kathy that Darwins are more prone to misbarring I'm not sure why.  My fisrt batch had a high percentage of misbars (80%) while subsequent batches have been completely the opposite (10-20%).  Raising protocol hasn't changed.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Monday, February 22, 2010 4:53 PM
Tal, I had not, but I shot these pictures earlier today.  Basically their larval tank will be a 10 gallon with sides and bottom painted black, one side unpainted for viewing.  50 watt Stealth Pro Heater with an air feed for aeration / circulation / hatching (since there are still more live eggs to hatch tonight if all goes well).

The LED on the end glass will be used to keep the babies that hatch at the far end of the tank







mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Monday, February 22, 2010 9:13 PM
So right before 8 PM, I turned the larval tank lights off, left the little LED on.  I checked just after 100, pulled the tile up and out, and there were only maybe 10-20 unhatched eggs on it, which I can only assume means that the rest in fact HATCHED?!  I could be pulling a massive brood here...crazy to think about.

Rotifer population is looking low, so I'm going to pull some more an hour or two after their feeding.  I pulled out the tiles, and have left the larval tanks lights on....

Really curious to know how many babies I have because at the moment, the water is too green for me to even get an idea (but judging by the number congregated around the LED, it's safe to assume there are more than 20 )

FWIW,

Matt

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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:15 AM
OK...so I removed maybe 2 gallons of water this evening, and in the process, even though I tried like crazy to avoid them with my airline siphon, I still got 20 larvae!  Crazy.  Water is clearing up a bit, and they seem to be making a huge dent in the rotifer population all the same.  So tonight, after the water change, I enriched a gallon's worth of rotifers with Selcon for a few hours while dripping in another 1.5 gallons of clean new saltwater.

It looks like I'm gonna easily have one of my best batches of clownfish ever unless I screw it up.  Not a bad way to rear my first batch of Black O's...

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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:37 AM
Yeah, they are curious little guys even at that age. They love to check out the siphon tube.  

I assume you were siphoning detritus?  I'm sure I'm not telling you something that you don't already know but, I always siphon into a white bucket so I can see th stray ones.  I let the waster settle a bit then use a pipette to snag them back out.

Sounds like you have a good batch going!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:43 PM
This morning, just a note, I put in 10 more drops of RotiGreen.  I would save I have conservatively 100 clowns, but possibly 200 at this point.

Oh and Tal, yes, I was siphoning detritus and dead babies.  I did just as you did, 'cept my bucket is orange.  They still stand out.

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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Wednesday, February 24, 2010 5:19 PM
I have a hard time seeing them in an orange bucket... maybe I'm thinking more of the P. fridmani.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Thursday, February 25, 2010 2:58 PM
Maintenance updates.  Yesterday, drained down to about 5 gallons of water and then dripped back in a gallon.  This morning, added another 20 drops of RotiGreen, as some (but not many) babies were starting to nose up to the BLACK SIDES of the tank?!  Crazy.  There is still a definitely issue with larvae dieing off...you can tell which ones are gonna die because they are thin, swim sporadically, and turn pale and lose attitude control in the water.  Meanwhile ones that are doing well are robust, fat, and look fine - the swim in the air currents just like "trout in a stream".  What's causing losses at this point? I don't know.

I took some pictures last night, which I'll post sometime later today.

Matt

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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Friday, February 26, 2010 10:03 PM
So I've been a bit busy with my folks coming into town for the weekend.  The evening of the 25th, I trickled in 1 gallon of new saltwater, drained out 2, trickeled in one more, and added 20 drops of RotiGreen and 10 drops of Chloram-X.  this morning I had to harvest a gallon's worth of rotifers for feed.  This evening, around 9 PM, I checked on the larvae and found that ALL the rotifers are gone...the babies had cleared out the tank.  So...harvested 1.5 gallons worth immediately, enriched another gallon's worth for about an hour with Super Selcon, and am dripping in 1 gallon of clean new SW with 10 drops of RotiGreen and 10 drops of Chloram-X.  It does not appear that there are any deaths today...so maybe that part of the rearing journey is behind us?

I need to post pix too...they're forthcoming.



mPedersen
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Friday, February 26, 2010 10:14 PM
Only pictures worth showing were shot on 2-25-2010 at 12:37 AM (so just after midnight):







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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Friday, February 26, 2010 10:30 PM
Ok, really stupid question but it's been a long week... are you covering the non-painted end of the tank?
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:04 PM
Nope...

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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:18 PM
Matt:
Not to side track your thread... but since I noticed you also had a split hatch, let me tell you what I did and I was surprised.

I have "half black photon" pairing - Original Onyx perc with its black photon pairing. They are in my overflow box of the big tank, and spawn erratically.  This nest was large enough, in a time window where I could raise it for at least 2 weeks before leaving for a few days, so I decided to raise it.  The temp in the parent tank is 75-77F. The eggs started to look silvery after 8 days, and not wanting to loose them I took the tile out into a separate tank. Of course they did not hatch that night. So, in the morning I took the tile and put it back with the parents, wondering if they would care for it as if nothing happened.  To my surprise they did.  So the next night - day 9, I was sure they would hatch and again pulled the tile at night. Came back in the morning and only 1/2 the nest had hatched.  So once again I put the tile back with the parents, and they went about it like the tile was never missing.  On day 10, pulled the tile again and got the remaining to hatch.  I was rather surprised that I did this 2 nights in a row and the parents were fine with it.  Wonder if its just this pair, or any other clownfish pair would do the same.

sanjay.


Fishtal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion ocellaris "Black / Darwin" - Saturday, February 27, 2010 8:35 PM
Very interesting Sanjay, good sidetrack!
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