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Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Saturday, February 6, 2010 12:43 AM
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Breeding Journal DataSheet for Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
General Species: Amphiprion pecula "Onyx" Social Structure: male female pair Size of Individuals: Female almost 3", male 2" Age of Individuals: unknown, wild caught Date added to Tank: June 20th, 2005 Broodstock Tank Details Size of Tank: 24 gallon nanocube Substrate Details: Live sand Filtration Details: stock nanocube filtration Water Changes: 25% weekly Water Temperature: 78-80F Lighting: stock 50/50 power compacts Lighting Cycle: 12 hours on, on timer Other Tank Inhabitants: many other fish over the years.... Broodstock Feeding Details Food Types: They eat everything. Pellets, Flakes, Frozen, Mysis, Brine, Cyclopeze, Squid, you name it. Feeding Schedule: at least 2-3 times per day. Spawning Details Date of First Spawn: 9/22/2006 Spawn Time of Day: afternoon Dates of Consecutive Spawns: too many to mention. They spawn roughly every 3 weeks in general, and have done so now for years. CourtShip Details: Female joins in nest cleaning the day of spawning. Egg Size: 3 mm in length roughly? Egg Color: bright orange Egg Count: first spawn was only 50-100, but most spawns are closer to 1000 (and have verified proof of over 1000 eggs) Hatch Details Hatch Date: 9/30/2006 to 10/1/2006 (hatched overnight) Hatch Time of Day: roughly the midnight to 1 AM hour # Days after Spawn: 8 Larve Description: small, kinda silvery, with a tiny orange belly, fully formed eyes mouth gut etc... Larval Tank Details Temperature: 82F Size of Larval Tank: 10 gallon Substrate Details: none Other Tank Decor: none - sides and bottom painted black Filtration Details: none Lighting: 18" 15watt standard strip light Lighting Cycle: probably was on about 18 hours a day Water Changes: probably none Larval Feeding Details Food Types: rotifers Feeding Schedule: constant (greenwater technique, probably using Nanno and Tet) Metamorphosis/Settlement Date of Settlement Start: 10-10-2006 Days after Hatch: 9 full days (larvae had sttled by morning of 10-10) Date of Settlement End: Description of Fry: Grow-Out Tank Details Temperature: 78-80 Size of Grow-Out Tank: 24 gallon broodstock tank, in a breeder net - 2 weeks later placed in a 6 gallon nanocube Substrate Details: none Other Tank Decor: none Filtration Details: stock nanocube filtration Lighting: standard nanocube twin power compact flourescent Lighting Cycle: 12 hours, on timer Water Changes: 25% weekly Size at Transfer: 1/4" at most Age at Transfer 10 days+ Grow-Out Feeding Details Food Types: Crushed flakes & pellets, Otohime pellets, baby brine shrimp Feeding Schedule: at least 2-3 times per day Additional Information Miscellaneous Information: Originally documented my breeding efforts with this pair on Reef Central - http://www.reefcentral.co...d.php?threadid=934645 (where it was Thread of the Month), got banned, posted briefly on Marine Depot ( http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic62574-12-1.aspx ) then followed up on MOFIB for a long time at: http://www.marinebreeder....bb/viewtopic.php?t=211 Heck, as recently as today, 2-5-2010, they pair just put down another nest. They have been consistent spawners since their first spawn years ago. Here's some pictures from my past efforts: First good spawn picture, shot 10-2-06  Another random spawning picture, shot 12-5-2006  17+ days post hatch, shot on 10-17-2006  15 days post hatch, under the QX5 at 10X  A later batch,shot at 17 days post hatch  First batched moved to their own nanocube at 25 days post hatch.  50 days post hatch  66 days post hatch  87 days post hatch  92 and 65 days post hatch  99 and 72 days post hatch  99 days post hatch  109 and 82 days  112 days, a different batch, hosting in Xenia with an Allardi  342 days post hatch - these last three images are of the same baby...shows again how stripes develop over LONG periods of time in perculas.  541 days post hatch, and tailstripe is only now forming  665 days post hatch (fish on the lower left, firsh on right is a WC perc) 
<message edited by mPedersen on Monday, March 1, 2010 11:42 PM>
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:29 PM
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So...tried for a larval collected on the night of the 12th...early perhaps, so guessing tonihgt, the 13th, will be the night 
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:52 AM
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So once again, no hatch tonight. I'm just jumping the gun, I know. 9 days is the norm. But, just to ensure it, last night after waiting for 2-3 hours and no luck, I put a small LED light on the next to prevent it from hatching. I've now done the same thing tonight after waiting almost 5 hours. Sunday MUST be hatch night, or I think there's a problem!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:00 PM
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Of course, the Onyx Percs have to be annoying as always. Had about a 50% hatch tonight in the broodstock tank. The larval snagger only snagged 20 or so. I had to resort to scooping out the rest...took about 2-3 gallons of water to get them out. Maybe got 100? Placed them in a new 10 with a Stealth Heater (the new 2010 models) and an air feed. 20 Drops of RotiRich Plus for greenwater, and 1.5 gallons worth of seived Rotifers for food. Lights are staying on.
Tomorrow night, I think I might be so bold as to collect what I can and place them in a different tank and perhaps treat them slightly different. Why not...I can always recombine them later if I want...
Interesting...
Matt
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Monday, February 15, 2010 10:24 AM
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Just to be clear, your last sentence: "Lights are staying on." are you referring to the larval tank so they can feed all night, or the broodstock tank so the rest don't hatch? Just curious.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Monday, February 15, 2010 10:33 AM
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 Originally Posted by Fishtal Just to be clear, your last sentence: "Lights are staying on." are you referring to the larval tank so they can feed all night YES
Originally Posted by Fishtal or the broodstock tank so the rest don't hatch? Just curious. I should've done this too, becuase when I checked at 1:00 AM, the rest had hatched and were lost in the filtration! 9 days it is on the Pair now that we moved them to Duluth... Matt
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:56 AM
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Had some deaths, hard to get a headcount, but a good number of larvae still alive today. I'm using the RotiGrow Plus, which Eric @ Reed tells me they haven't really tried as a Greenwater Technique algae (due to the enhanced level of HUFAS causing a slick on the water surface). I'm testing it out to see how it goes....maybe I'll raise an uber batch of Onyx Percs this time?
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Friday, February 19, 2010 6:24 PM
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So the verdict is in..you cannot use RotiGrow Plus for greenwater technique, at least I can't. Of course, I should predicate my statements by saying that RotiGrow Plus is not MEANT for greenwater technique...it's specifically meant for growing highly pre-enriched rotifers. The companion product, RotiGreen, is SPECIFICALLY designed for use as a Greenwater algae, and has high levels of both EPA and DHA (so it should take care of the need for certain species that ordinarily have required T-ISO in the past to round out the HUFA profiles and ensure good growth). Basically, all the larvae Onyx Perc larvae I collected started dying on the evening of day 3, and by the end of day 5 they're all dead. I DID have some elevated ammonia levels as well, but when comparing notes with other breeders, including one that has tried using the RotiGrow Plus for greenwater, it seems that the result is that the RotiGrow Plus is responsible for the losses. It's important again to stress that the product was not intended for use in Greenwater, that as far as I know, Reed has never tried / tested it for use as a Greenwater Technique product, and therefore, I was definitely on my own and experimenting here, and as we all know, sometimes experiments end in failure. My next batch, I will use the RotiGreen for greenwater. Should work just fine If it fails in the same manner as this batch did, then I have to re-examine what I'm doing. FWIW, Matt
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Sunday, February 21, 2010 7:14 PM
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Thanks for the update Matt and keep us posted.
Chad Penney - MBI Council Agis quod Adis
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Monday, March 1, 2010 11:25 PM
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Opportunity for redemption is at hand. The Onyx Percs put down another nice nest on the evening of March 1st
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Thursday, April 15, 2010 5:01 PM
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Ah, I totally neglected to say that the nest hatched on the 10th/11th.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Thursday, April 15, 2010 5:13 PM
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And boom...all sold off at 35 days post hatch
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Thursday, April 15, 2010 5:14 PM
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Cool, I've never sold any that small/young.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Thursday, April 15, 2010 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mPedersen And boom...all sold off at 35 days post hatch WOW......those sold quick  I'd like to have your connections hehe.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Friday, April 16, 2010 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Zooid WOW......those sold quick I'd like to have your connections hehe. I put my local pricing up on the local forums. But it can be difficult to sell larger groups of fish like the 150 45 day old Black O's...that was lucky...right buyer wasn in the market and I made an offer that couldn't be touched.
Originally Posted by Fishtal
Cool, I've never sold any that small/young.
Hobbyists sometimes want to watch 'em grow up and they'll put them in a net breeder and feed crushed up flake. Definitely tough for a hobbyist to pull off sometimes, but I sell them cheap. I.e. the 35 day old Onyx were a bit "smaller" than some at that age, so I did $5 each (normally they're $10 when 30 days+...I think $15 at 45 days, $20 when second stripe starts showing etc...) An interesting side note...C-Quest actually sells really small clowns, both percs and ocellaris, as "Nano" size. They're maybe 1/2" to 3/4". Stores sell 'em at $20 retail in Chicago. They go like gangbusters at that small size. Yes, not as solid of a fish, but people love 'em the way they love newly released Banggais. And for someone with a Pico or a small Nano, arguably not a bad addition fish wise. The nice thing about having avenues to sell things small is it allows you to free up grow out space now and again. That said, I intend to have a lot more growout in the future fishroom.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Saturday, April 17, 2010 9:23 AM
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Matt,
I have been using the Rotigrow Plus for a few months now as a rotifer feed and as the greenwater with the larva. I have had approx 95%+ survival rate after day 1. I do tend to clean the tank a little more and keep the aeration a little higher but have had success with it.
I had a nice conversation with Randy Reed yesterday and I ordered more rotigrow plus for the rotifer food. I am also going to try the rotigreen for the greenwater and their new N-Rich for rotifer enrichment. I will see if there is any differences. One thought I had is that to me it is beneficial to use the roigrow plus as the greenwater. During the first few days after hatch I usually keep the rotifer density fairly high. If the clutch of eggs is small I may only add rotifers once or twice clear up thry meta so using the the rotigrow plus keeps the rotifers at the highest nutritional level during that time. I understand that possibly with some other types of fish that may consume rotifers that this may not work but it seems to be working with clowns.
BTW, I finished counting all the clowns in the clownhouse on Wednesday and there is 2,786 in the growout system :-)
Dave
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Saturday, April 17, 2010 9:39 PM
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Dave, I'm surprised to hear you're using the Rotigrow PLUS for Greenwater. At what levels (that seems to be very important)? All I know is my experiences using it for Greenwater didn't go well, and that mirrored the results of other well known breeders. But hey, if it's working for you, then yes, great, because MY reason for wanting to use it is the same as yours. That said, the RotiGrow Plus and RotiGreen are part of a system, and I think the system was designed to work a certain way. My understanding...and sadly I cannot remember who to attribute this thought to...is that the elevated lipid levels in the RotiGrow Plus can literally clog the gills of young fish, and that's where some of the problems stem from.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:26 PM
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Matt, Interesting theory on the gill clogging. I had never thought of that. I wonder if it is more of an issue with fish of other species than clownfish. Obviously clownfish hatch more developed than other fish so it may be more of an issue. Maybe I'll try 2 seperate clutches of clowns from the same brood and change only the greenwater. I don't know how accurate it would be without testing multiple clutches on both for comparison but I'm always up for something different. I can try to go back and see exactly how long ago I switched but I know that the last 2 orders from Reed were the Rotigrow PLUS. I usually order around every 5-6 weeks so that would be 2-3 months. As far as the exact levels that I use in the green water would be hard to say. To be honest with you I am not the most technical guy and don't always keep the best records I usually keep the water a little green with the Rotigrow Plus to keep the rots feed with the larva. I dose the Rotigrow Plus twice a day and usually dose a little less each day as the larva progress til I am just trying to add enough to keep the rots nourished. My tanks are blacked out on all sides with white on the bottom. I use a black hood with 2 15 watt incadesent lamps for their light on 24/7 thru metamorphasis and seem to be having decent success. You know just the plain black 10g incadescent hoods. I can't say the Rotigrow PLUS is either doing better or worse in regards to misbars or gill defects. To be honest I think it matters more on how diligent I am in regards to keeping the tank clean and water changes. When I talked to Randy Reed initially about the Rotigrow PLUS he did say that he didn't know if it would work for greenwater. I am going to try the Rotigreen and the N-Rich products but unless the clutch is large I am not convinced that it will be all that beneficial.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Basically, all the larvae Onyx Perc larvae I collected started dying on the evening of day 3, and by the end of day 5 they're all dead. I wish I would have read this before I tried two batches of Onyx/Picassos. I'm having the same exact problem. I had over 100 larvae looking really good and eating well yesterday. This morning all but seven were dead. Time to try using RotiGreen. I've used RotiGrow Plus for my Black and Whites with success. Maybe since the Black and Whites are twice the size of my percs, they can handle it better. Things that make me go "hmmmm". Oh well, my Onyx/Picasso pair just laid another batch today (13 days between spawns, gotta love that) so I'll be trying with RotiGreen next time.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula "Onyx"
Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:59 PM
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I have raised 3 batches of picasso's using RotiGrow Plus with only 4 dead out of over 120 hatched. I use it for the rotifer food and greenwater. I did receive a batch of rotigreen and the new N-Rich yesterday so I'm going to try that also. I recently hatched a clutch of ocellaris which we counted the other day (423) and only 9 died in that batch with rotigrow plus. Maube it has to do with the density of the greewater or aeration that doesn't seem to bother my fry.
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