New Pair

Well I was at a LFS and found this pair sold as A. sabae:
 

 
I've been doing some research and I'm starting to think they are actually A. clarkii. Still doing some research but It's very much looking like thay are not A. sabae.
 
 

Attached Image(s)

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Some more pics:
 

 

 

Attached Image(s)

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Chad,  I am thinking Clarkii too.  Especially with the band on the caudal fin

From what I've been able to find in my research Sebae do not have that third white band.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

I think we need to go on a club mission to find real Sebae's

Now that I have these guys I really find myself wanting to get a pair of true Sebae though..


Sounds like it might be time to pull some strings.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

It would be cool to get a comparison shot of the 2 pairs to see the differences.

Chad, do you happen to know the actual source of the fish you got?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

At this point no..I do have the personal cell of the store owner though and plan to give him a call tomorrow.

I've also sent a few feelers to some sources to see if I can find a source for a pair of actual A. sebae.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Check out these links:

A. clarkii
http://fishbase.mnhn.fr/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=5448&genusname=Amphiprion&speciesname=clarkii&lang=English

A. allardi
http://fishbase.mnhn.fr/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=11836&genusname=Amphiprion&speciesname=allardi&lang=English

A. sebae
http://fishbase.mnhn.fr/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=11846&genusname=Amphiprion&speciesname=sebae&lang=English

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Looking at all the pics from thos links:

Clarkii seem to have pointier noses than Allardi.
Sebae's have only yellow tails.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

All this looking around has me stumbling across some cool clowns that we never see

A. polymnus:


A. chrysogaster


A. latenzonatus:


This is one of the coolest, I think, A. omanensis:


I guess most of these guys are impossible to get though.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

It has been very hard to find good information on how to really tell the difference between to the three species. The only reall information I seem to have that at least apears to be true is that A. sebae does not have any sort of banding on the caudal peduncle and the other two do. So that effectively rules this out as a true A. sebae.
 
As to whether it is a clarkii or allardi, well it's hard to be sure still. In the pictures the banding on the allardi is very narrow and doesn't go into the dorsal at all. The clarkii however has much wider bands that base on this image and others often extends into the dorsal..
 
It's very confusing right now.
 

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

See here is a pic of an A. allardi from another site:


once again notice how narrow the banding is.. Almost coming to a point at the bottom of both bands.

from: http://www.nhm.ku.edu/inverts/ebooks/ch2.html

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Here is the thread that I started on Rareclownfish.com on the allardi v. sebae.  http://www.rareclownfish.com/forums/f8/clown-id-3913/

Also,  a good thread on rare clowns

http://www.rareclownfish.com/forums/f8/clowns-you-cant-buy-and-why-663/

According to the threads on RCF the reason he gave for the ID of A. allardi is the white stripe on the top of the caudal fin.

I have to say that I can't see any evidence of that being a defining mark of an Allardi? In fact i haven't seen a single pic of an allardi with that white strip on it.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

I have had dozens if not hundreds of juvenile clarkii's that have had the white stripe on the caudal fin.  Sorry but they look like clarkii's to me.

With good photos of your fish, you should be able to count the number of bones in the dorsal fins and use that to help ID the fish. If you look at books like "Clownfish and there Host Anemones by Fautin/Allen, you should be able to figure it out.  Hint: another good reason to by books.  I do recall seeing this book online also.

I have a decent collection of books but as I've never had much of an interest in clowns that book just isn't one I've picked up before..Needless to say it is on my list now.
You can also get that information off of fishbase, when it's working:
 
A. sebae:
Dorsal spines (total): 10 - 11; Dorsal soft rays (total): 14 - 17; Anal spines: 2; Anal soft rays: 13 - 14. Often all yellow or has a yellow band. In Bali, they are mostly black (Ref. 48636).
 
A. allardi:
Dorsal spines (total): 10 - 11; Dorsal soft rays (total): 15 - 17; Anal spines: 2; Anal soft rays: 13 - 15
 
A. clarkii:
Dorsal spines (total): 10; Dorsal soft rays (total): 15 - 16; Anal spines: 2; Anal soft rays: 13 - 14. Highly variable in color and several geographical and localized forms (Ref. 48636). Two white bands, one behind the eye and one above the anus. Caudal fin white, sometimes yellowish, but always lighter than rest of the body.
 
As you can see in this case that doesn't help much as they are almost identical and overlap.

 
No need to apologize I had a feeling they were probably not actually A. sebae when I got them becuase so often clarkii are sold as sebae. At $25 for the pair it was pretty hard to turn down though so I don'tconsider it much of a loss.
 

 

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

I just got word back from the store owner this morning:


So I think this pretty much makes it official that this is in fact A. clarkii. I'm going to have him look into sources for true A. sebae for us if anyone is interested.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

count me in Chad.  I'd be interested if he can get some

I'll keep you posted on what I find out.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Thanks

FWIW, late to the game, but seeing those pix I was an instant "A clarkii" response.

FYI, to the person that posted the pix of the Yellow Breasted A. Polymnus, I HAD 2 of those shipped to me with the Lightning Maroons.  They were PNG collected, part of the SEASMART program.  They were awesome.  Unfortunately, one died almost immediately and the other pretty quickly thereafter.  As I've had nothing but good luck with Blue Zoo shipments ordinarily, I'm chalking this one up to one of those atypical bad shipments that can happen due to handling or something else, or I just really screwed the pooch somehow.  Regardless, I believe you'll be able to get more of those Yellow Breasted PNG Saddlebacks through Blue Zoo Aquatics...I know I intend to.

Mind you, this was shot hours before it expired, but still, even on it's deathbed, one cool clownfish - http://www.lightning-maroon-clownfish.com/?p=119

FWIW,

Matt

 
Your opinion is always more than welcome Matt! I'm not sure if you read the whole thread or not but I got the pair for $25 so it was hard to pass up no matter what the species was. Another good thing that came out of this is that the it looks like the store I bought them from is going to start labeling their Clarkii's as Clark's Clowns and not Sebae going forward...Now if we can just get stores to stop labeling Occys as False Percs We'd be all set.
 
 
That was me once again...You just never see clowns like that at least around here. They are so cool looking so it seems like you would be able to move them if you get them to breed. It would be nice to get some Latz clowns but I'd be sleeping in the doghouse, and my kids would be eating bread and water if I spent $1,000 on a pair of fish!
 
 

 
I'll have to look into it..Maybe drop the Sebae search and start hunting down some A. Polymnus instead

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Wow, those less common species you posted Chad, WOW. I thought distinguishing Occys and Percs was hard enough haha. How do these Clarkiis and Sabeas behave? Smallest recommended tank size? Still thinking about stocking a potential 5.5 AGA, im hesitant to put most any clown in there, Green Banded Gobies look pretty cool too though. Hope this isnt a hijack... based on the fish base links the color variations are subtle and i imagine fish to fish they are hard to distinguish

No problem on the Hijack..

Do you want to get a pair or a single individual? Although a 5.5 is a small tank clowns really don't move around much. So they don't need as much space as most other fish. You could certainly keep them in a tank that small in the near term. Although space isn't going to be a huge issue for these guys you are going to have to keep up with your water changes to keep your water quality in check.

The Green Banded Gobies would probably be a better option for you especially long term. If you wanted to up to a 10 gallon you could keep a clown pair basically as long as you wanted there.
 

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

i think i need to move in and see what space i have for sure but as im looking at a Nova extreme 18" to light this project i could potential move up to a 10G. Only looking to keep softies and maybe a single LPS of some sort in there. I would only keep a single clown in a 5.5G for sure. Are there GBG breeders locally too? i heard they were more shy and hide in the tank. I'll start another post for this project though.

What kind of behavior do Clarkiis have? compared to say percs or tomatoes