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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:59 AM
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 Originally Posted by Chelle's Ocean
Is it true that a lower temp will delay metamorphosis and a higher temp speeds it up?
It is true that you will get higher growth rates at higher temps
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:59 AM
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And with my percs, I think I delayed meta by quite a long time by culturing them at 78.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:59 PM
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Thank you both- I have the tank set at 78 now.... should I bump it up to 80?
Or rather, will it hurt them staying at 78? I don't mind the length of time it takes, because I am still learning as I go, so really don't want to speed up quickly- but I don't want to alter them by going slow either. (does that make sense when reading it?)
If they will be ok at 78 (and the only side effect will be the slow meta) then I think that is a good route for a beginner like me to take.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:06 PM
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Today is (assuming since they were hatched at 12:20am 8/21/10) Day#2 post hatch?
(or do I not include the actual hatch date?)
I gave 2 feedings of rotifers
I also tried something else:
took a small mason jar of phyto, along with the same mason jar of h2o from the parent tank, and added them both to the larvae tank... I know there are rotifers in the parent tank- so hopefully they will multiply for my babies! And since it is the parent tank, I am hoping the h2o chemistry is ok to add like that.
I also added a 1/4 mason jar fresh water, and 3 more drops of Prime.
I laid underneather the rack (using the wine rack is working nicely) and can see the bottom of the tank perfectly. I am counting around 16 or so- but it is hard as they keep moving so quickly. They are staying in groups, huddling together. But so far a good amount are still here. Very pleased with that.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:52 PM
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Congratulations. At 80F they will meta at around 7 days. At 78, I think it might be 9-10 days. Not a significant difference, and I was once advised that the misbarring is less at the lower temperature. Not sure if that is true, but 78 will not harm them.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:06 PM
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lol so nice to have Kathy bopping around!! Talk about your wealth of knowledge.
I've done all my clutches at 80 for the fast meta rate as well (though my concern was more in collection of the fry post hatch than the actual rearing of the fry).
On the rotifer cultures... try and split one of those mason jars into any (yep pretty much any) available large vessel... instead of splitting daily continue to add fresh culture water and phyto. these guys will grow in almost anything... my wife used to give me greif because at one point I "requisitioned" a plastic hat box she was using... it held water, therefore it held rotifers... that was my thinking! (though important to note if you dont sieve your rotifers this could cause a problem)
on the oyster feast... I have had experience in smaller detached vessels. While not quite a larval tank (it was a snail study I was working on involving small 2 gallon vessels) I made the mistake of using it. Unless it's eaten it will foul the water quite quickly! While the nutritional content and viability as food is extremely high, I wouldnt use it in a small unfiltered set up. Though in thinking of it, I might try it in a filtered grow out tank in the future!
On the spectrum, they will take it in place of Otohime if it is crushed very fine ala mortar and pestle. I use crushed spectrum as well as crushed ocean nutrition pellets in a lot of my mixes.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Monday, August 23, 2010 11:45 AM
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Thank you Kathy and J - thanks for stopping by my thread and for the advice. I will stay away from the fuel for now- but may try it once I am able to filter out the water- good idea. I will definitely use a mortar/pestle- Tal mentioned that as well. To make a very fine powder. I will set up larger rotifer containers this week. Good pointing out better to do that than to split everyday. And so far the larvae....the fry seem to be eating well  (ok please someone correct me....at what point do they go from larvae to fry? haven't gotten my book yet- don't want to mistype)
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Monday, August 23, 2010 11:49 AM
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Metamorphosis is when they transition from larvae to fry. As mentioned above, it is usually complete ~7-8 days. Possibly a bit later at cooler temps.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Monday, August 23, 2010 1:05 PM
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Actually, Joe is wrong (gasp!) about the rots. I worked the numbers through at one point, and it _is_ definitely better to split the rots everyday. You ultimately end up with more younger rots (= smaller) and a healthier culture with more rots at each age range. I have the excel sheet around somewhere if you'd like me to dig it out.
He is correct about the Oyster Feast, though. I will definitely use it with my animals, but I also try to co-add it with something like O. marina that might also use Oyster Feast and/or the resulting bacteria bloom as food.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Monday, August 23, 2010 2:41 PM
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Hmmm..... ok then........ I guess continuing to do what I am doing is ok- as it is working for me thus far- but I do see where having the larger vessel would come in handy. I am also getting a magnifying glass - that might just be the problem. I just don't feel there are enough in the jar... but there very well could be. And maybe it's my eyes not seeing them. (I know it's supposed to look like a brownish coloring... but really not that much brown is coming out)
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Monday, August 23, 2010 6:46 PM
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The only reason I raise my clowns at higher temperatures is because of the delay in metamorphosis. Delayed metamorphosis means they need rotifers and greenwater longer (sometimes substantially longer). I'm too impatient I culture my rotifers in a couple one gallon containers. A couple days before hatch I set up about 5 gallons and add the rotifers that I harvest from 50% harvests of the two one gallon containers. The morning after hatch I harvest two gallons from the 5 gallon container and put the strained rotifers into the larvae tank with some RotiGreen. Using this method I don't have to add any more rotifers to the larvae tank. The RotiGreen will feed the rotifers and they will reproduce faster than my 500 or so larvae can eat them. On the temperature, I've raised some of my larvae at lower temperatures and they seemed to have a higher misbar rate so I'm thinking that water quality or nutrition is more a factor than temperature. Raising them at lower temperatures seems to be less stressful to the larvae as they go through meta. Maybe because the changes aren't so fast and drastic? Sorry for rambling....just throwing out some thoughts
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Monday, August 23, 2010 7:05 PM
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No- please ramble- the more thoughts and opinions for what everyone does the more I know what to expect, what works, what doesn't. I take in what everyone offers, then use what works for me. I definitely will stay with the slower morph I think - at least for the time being, until I am comfortable with moving faster- I definitely do not want to stress them out. And they seem to be doing well so far.... so I am not wanting to push my luck. Tomorrow is Day #4 and I am truly hoping they stay with me at least until the end of the month so my husband has a chance to see them when he gets home. But truth be told- I am praying (and cheering them on) that I see this hatch all the way through Yes- Tal mentioned the roti-green as well - I am making a list of what suggestions I receive, and will start acquiring items for a supply stash for the next hatches. This one I started with only phyto and rotifers thanks to a fellow reefer. I want to be better prepared for the next ones. I wish I could get my camera to focus close enough without the blur effect- they truly are adorable They come right to the front of the tank when I turn on the dining room light. So cute - Although still cannot get a good count as to how many are there. Sometimes it seems like only 5, then they come out of nowhere and it looks like 15?! (ummm... yeah- still abit too green in there, lol) Ok - turning the computer off- getting a migraine from lack of sleep.... but I want to say Thank You to everyone here and also on www.captivereefs.com who initially introduced me to MBI. The info shared is extremely helpful. Thank You for making this an enjoyable experience thus far. Tal I appreciate the info received, and am happy I found CR and you guys - Thanks! Good night to all. Michelle
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Monday, August 23, 2010 7:13 PM
( permalink)
Originally Posted by Chelle's Ocean
(ummm... yeah- still abit too green in there, lol)
I actually keep my tank very green until about day 5 or 6 (for 82F temp and for perculas) you may want to keep yours green for a few days longer than that due to the 78F temp. The most useful suggestion I ever received was to start using RotiGrow to feed my rotifers instead of live phyto. Thanks Ummmfish. lol Have a good night.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Monday, August 23, 2010 9:31 PM
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wow and we got Gale here too...
I'm living this one... I think I'm the only one in the group that is still culturing his own algae to feed the rotifers / copepods (copepods another story, ala Andy has a new species I havent tried!!). By no means is culturing your own necessary as many (including Andy and Gale) have proven. I culture my own for other reasons (odd species).
Bearing in mind my efforts with the alga, the Rotigrow is a great idea for most hobbyists and I would agree with the endorsements. Though I will probably never use it (lol).
On the note of everyone being in the same thread here... Gale / Kathy.... tell me more about this misbar at higher temp thing, I would love to look into this further!!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Monday, August 23, 2010 11:30 PM
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That RotiGrow.... It seems expensive (and it ain't cheap) but it makes rots so dang easy. I wouldn't trade it.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Monday, August 23, 2010 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Umm_fish?
That RotiGrow.... It seems expensive (and it ain't cheap) but it makes rots so dang easy. I wouldn't trade it.
I have to agree. I'm really liking the product. Well worth the cost, especially since it can be frozen for 2 years.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 12:03 AM
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I just wish I didn't go through it so fast! lol
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 12:28 AM
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Just skimming and came across this:
Originally Posted by KathyL Not a significant difference, and I was once advised that the misbarring is less at the lower temperature. Not sure if that is true, but 78 will not harm them.
I have heard this advice as well, and in general, there has been some talk from certain persons (I don't want to quote without asking first) that basically suggests that HIGHER temps are not necessarily overall "better" temps for breeding fish, incubating eggs, and rearing larvae.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 12:33 AM
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FYI on the RotiGrow Plus (and the required companion product RotiGreen), I 110% concur that it has blown me away. I am getting better batches of clownfish now than I ever did with my own live phyto.
The expense is actually anything but expensive. In truth, it is the best value for general phyto needs. When I looked at all the time, the absolute never ending burden of culturing my own Phyto and routinely harvesting, making new water and sterilizing, and then STILL crashing the stuff I wanted like T-Iso...well, RotiGrow and RotiGreen become downright cheap. When I look at the investment in starter cultures, lights, air pump, fertilizer/media, bottles etc, I really did not save a penny by doing it myself. All I really did was HIDE THE REAL COST to make it FEEL like I was doing it "on the cheap" and made myself work a LOT HARDER in the process. I was very proud of my cultures, and there are certainly times where live cultures may be needed, but if you can do what you want using only the frozen pastes (and it's RotiGrow + for Rotifer culture, and RotiGreen for greenwater), cough up the funds and have Reed ship it to you!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: <A. Ocellaris>
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:00 AM
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That's a fact, Matt! Rotigrow+ is indispensable.
The only reason I still grow Nannochloropsis is because I bought the dry mass pack from FAF a long time ago and haven't run out yet LOL.
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