Breeding Journal, Species: Elacatinus Oceanops

Yes rest in peace papa Gobie... 

He was a good fish. I learned a  lot from him and his mate.

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So, I acquired a few more and got a pair out of them, and they've been spawning. 
Jazzybio asked me if I sterilized the tank for the larvae.  
I have to say, I have not had consistent success with neons, so take these observations with a grain of salt:
I felt after a few failures that the changing of water was a bad thing for gobies as they seemed to do better with more neglect than attention.  Recirculation seemed to do them in as well, and also turning the lights out. So my thinking is that sterilization may not be the best idea. Jim Adelburg does not sterilize, he lets the babies stay in the broodstock tank, and moves the parents out. So he is working with a cycled tank. He claims not to have a great yield, but still, he is successful. Another breeder starts rotifers in the larval tank 3-5 days before the eggs hatch.  This must introduce lots of bacteria, and perhaps the kind that neutralizes ammonia.
 
 I have certainly had the experience, and recently, where the rotifer population increases until it crashes, ammonia to the roof.  Most of the gobies died. Interestingly, I just received a shipment of mysids, had emptied the bag, and was on the way to putting it in the trash, when I realized that there were still some in there, I rinsed them into the gobie tank.  This was before the crash.  They survived the crash, and the few days thereafter that it took me to clean the bottom and do a 95% water change.  No added food for a couple of days either. Yet the shrimp survived, and one of the gobies. Really. It survived ammonia, a huge water change, and no food. It's still alive.  I used the tank for the latest gobie hatch without further cleaning.  It was a bad hatch, half the eggs did not hatch, and many died the first day, a phenomenon I've experienced frequently.  But the ammonia is under control, I'm keeping careful watch of the rot population, and I won't be surprised if the gobies make it this time.
 
Clownfish go through meta in a week, so it makes sense that they might need a sterile tank at first to postpone cycling until after metamorphosis. Or never, if a sponge filter is used.
 
Gobies take a month to get to meta and if you start with a sterile tank,  suffering throught the cycling of the tank during their delicate larval period may just be too hard on them.  My thought is that the tank needs to be cycled or recirculated with a sponge filter in the sump, or something.
 
My thought that gobies can't stand water changes has been disproven by the one that survived a 95% change and is still alive today.

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Interestingly, that gobie did not survive, but another from the last nest survived a similar culture that killed all its siblings. What is it with one survivor from each nest?This is the third time it's happened.
 
Using the same tank, cleaned the bottom, left the sides, and did  a massive water change. Put the next hatch in there.  It was a good hatch from a smaller nest, and again we have a massive die off in the first 24 hours. The long older brother is still alive. Mysid shrimp still thriving.

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There were at least a dozen 11 day old gobies in the BRT when I added the nest of new babies. They were due to hatch this morning, so I scraped a couple eggs off the inside of the pipe, and checked them under the scope.  The yolk was just a bit bigger than the eye, so I thought that I should wait a while longer to try to hatch them.  I floated the few sacrificial eggs in a small cup in the larval tank and went about my business. In no time, all the eggs in the cup hatched.
 
So I've been having lots of difficulty getting goby nests to hatch at the same time.  I've had hatches that go over two days with lots of efforts shaking the pipe in the water as David Mulcahey had advised.  I would get a few hatches, but not all, and not even the majority.
 
Given what happened this morning, I decided to try just scraping the eggs off into a small plastic cup with larval tank water and seeing if that is enough stimulation to get them to hatch. It was.  Almost all hatched within 20 minutes. Some didn't hatch, but not many. 
 
So now I have 3 generations of gobies in the same tank, one at 22 days, a dozen or so at 11 days and a hundred or so at 0 days. Also mysid shrimp, Parvocalanus, rotifers, live Isochrysis and dead RGgreen.  It's a soup. Zero ammonia.

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And now the pictures:
Eggs in a cup, hatching.  

 
copepods and a damselfish egg

 
 

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OK, Mr and Mrs Neon started spawning again, so I have a hatch to work with. I have them in a BRT right next to the damselfish larval BRT.  They are at least 10 times bigger than the damselfishes, but the damsels are at least 100 times as numerous.  This time I am using rotifres and parvo together, with bright light and heavy air. I put Roti green as well  as Iso in the water.  They appear vigorous and as if they are eating.  Tomorrow more coppepodites and live phyto.

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Oh, and the morning after hatch, they spawned again. 7/24/14.  Mrs always looks so gravid I think she will burst.  After spawning, she is particularly ravenous.

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Still have a few gobies at 6 days, that look robust and eating. A new nest will hatch tomorrow, and I'm tempted to just hatch them, and put them with these older ones.
 
I've been increasing the water volume the past couple of days, and it is good to dilute the scummy water.  In the next few gallons, the water will overcome the overflow, and get a chance to be protein skimmed (yes, I actually set up a small one in a sump for these guys--I am breaking all my foibles against protein skimming) and ammonia neutralized in the sump below, before being trickled back into the BRT.

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Big nest hatched tonight.  I put them in the BRT. They are 1/3 the size of the ones that are 7 days older. So much fun!

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I only got 5 adults out of that batch.  They are happily living in another tank with the baby clarkiis--cuteness!
 
Sterile BRT, heater at 78F, some expired Dr Tim's one and only, sterile Instant ocean, central airstone with moderate air. Biggest nest I've ever hatched. Might be a thousand eggs.  Great hatch.
 
I have the light right on the tank, and for the first few days, only live Tetraselmis and Isochrysis for green water, now supplemented with RGreen. Rotifers at 15 per ml, have been self repopulating.  I've been checking every day, as it seems too many is a bad thing.
 
I did not experience the early die off that I anticipated, given my history with neons.  There are still way too many baby gobies in there. Its funny, they stay in a cloud in the best flow part of the tank, in good light.  Some are on the wall, but all are constantly striking at food. The other half of the tub is practically empty.  I've never had it so good.  But we are only 3 days in, so a lot can happen.
 

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Day 5, no appreciable die off, no need to add rotifers either, as they and the gobies appear to be thriving.  I wish I knew what I did right. I've never seen so many healthy, active goby larvae.  Maybe it's the live phyto.  Maybe its the new f/2 bottle that I've been growing it with.  Maybe it's the CO2 addition to the phyto culture station. Hard to say.

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How are you adding the CO2? Are you seeing the increased growth that Dr Rhyne spoke of.

I have to say---no. I don't seem to be growing phyto faster or darker, and it is a major frustration. On the other hand, there is no control for the experiment, so I don't know if there is something wrong with my system or my water or something that is making my phyto grow ever more slowly, and the CO2 is keeping it limping along….
 

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tons o gobies, some picking something off the sides of the BRT, the others in a cloud that encompasses half the volume of the BRT, and a smattering of others in the other half, probably more than I've ever raised, in the "thin" half. Never was there an easier batch to raise.  I've not had to add rotifers, just phyto twice a day. I continue to be amazed.  Day 7.

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Meta has begun.  I have a few gobies clinging to the sides of the BRT, some with neon blue. There has been some die off, but still, more gobies than I've ever raised! I checked the contents of the water, and the contents of the sediment that I siphoned out: Euterpina or some other harpacticoid explains all the BRT side picking that larvae did early on.  There are also calanoids in the water column, though I can't remember adding them. I've been supplementing with brine shrimp nauplii. One thing that characterizes this run, is that the majority of algae added twice a day has been live, and the pollution generated has been minimal-- no foaming from the airstone activity, and no ammonia even after 30 days.

check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
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Nice work Kathy! You are motivating me to get some and try these as my first non clownfish species before jumping into more difficult gobies.

Interesting the difference you seem to be seeing with the live algae as well. Did you have this large batch on the skimmed and recirculating system?

Congratulations Kathyl,
                                 Great to see it's going well. With live phytoplankton, I only use 1/3 of the greenwater, add twenty drops of F/2 and top of container with 1.018 s.g. saltwater. I just use tap water that has been sitting for 24 hours. And lights on for 24 hours. It is usually green the next day or so for use again. To darken it more a day or so longer I just add more drops.  Have never had ant luck with paste, don't know why.
                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                                  Doug
 

 
Yes and no.  It was in the BRT that has the sump connected, but I did not feel the need for the sump, as the water quality seemed fine, and I did not want to lose the food items.  I used the BRT as a stand alone.
Pix later.

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Doug,
I've used that method as well, particularly if the phyto is a little thin. I can start a new jar, and keep harvesting from the old jar for about a week.  By then the new jar is ready.

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Only about 20 gobies survived being transferred to a grow out tank.  I don't know what happened, but they started dieing in ones and twos.
 
Then I had a massive nest hatch and survive, and there is the result.
https://youtu.be/y3z6P6HxFeQ
I got a new GoPro camera that works underwater, put a 10x lens on it, attached it to a pole of PVC, and lowered it, nervously, into the tank. This is going to be  a lot of fun.  My pictures of fish in a bRT will never be the same!

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I picked up a few of these guys a couple of weeks ago. Two of them stay together all the time. Should i remove the third one? It is quite smaller than the other two.

I don't know. I've had them spawn with other gobies in the tank, but I've had them disappear, too. If it were me, I would find another one for the third wheel and put them in a separate tank.

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Sounds like plan.
thank you, Kathy

Love that up underwater video! And I like the algae on the sides of the tub. Has to be some good pod growth in there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ken

thanks, I'm pretty happy with the camera and the gobies.  Of course I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking the lush algae growth has contributed to the success of the run.  It started out as a lawn, and turned into shrubbery!  These youngsters were fed lightly 8-9 times around the clock, because the lights are on 24/7. Auto feeder.  That many gobies and that much food makes for a lot of poo.  I know the euterpina is at home on the floor of the tub, in the poo and leftover food, and is thriving there.  There may be some copepods in the algae on the walls, I'll check this weekend. But algae that lush needs to eat as well.  There is no ammonia, and no significant nitrates, and the pH is fine in that small volume of water with possibly 100 young gobies eating constantly. Something is making those pollutants go away, quite effectively. I only do water changes sometimes, and haven't scraped the bottom in 3 weeks….Algae on 24/7 lighting will also provide some oxygen to the tub, and that can't be bad for the little fish.  Microscopic and macroscopic life are good things, even when they make the water thick as in that video!

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I've been moving them to a grow out tank, just a few at a time.  I've moved 36 as of this evening, and the tub population appears undiminished.
 
Anyone ever see an albino neon goby?  I have a couple of large juveniles that seem to have no black pigment, just the blue stripe.  If I can catch one, I'll get a picture.

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My neon gobies lay every 17 days and the water is 80-81.

Wonder if that is the equivalent of a misbar clown?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ken

Hi Kathy, Did any of the albino babies make it?

Actually, I think I was mistaken about that. As I was moving them to grow out, a lot of them blanched--lost their body color, but it was just temporary.  Probably it was from stress.

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I´d be very surprised to see an albino mutation showing up.See that it took 40 years of massive breeding before albino clowns were finally produced.-

Kathy
 
Any updates?
 
Where did you get your BRT?

They are all huge adults.  I've sold some, but have about 60 left.  Anyone want some?

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Hi Kathy I would be interested in getting a few from you. 

I am thrilled to hear it!
 
kathysclowns@sbcglobal.net
 
Let me know your shipping address and how many you want. I know how to ship, but we should get it done soon before the weather gets really cold.

check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
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I think I got it at Walmart or Home Depot a few years ago.  They don't always have them, and they aren't always black.  They are very cheap, though, so when I see some, I get a couple.  I know you can get them from Tuff Stuff, and at most horse and tackle or farm supply stores.

check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
Captive bred clownfish and more
(Wholesale to the trade.)