Breeding Journal, Species: Hippocampus reidi

General
Species:  Hippocampus reidi
Social Structure:  Two mated pairs
Size of Individuals:  6"
Age of Individuals:  2+ years
Date added to Tank:  21 July 2010

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank:  65 Gallons
Substrate Details:  Sand bed
Filtration Details:  Polyester sock, Protein skimmer, Chaetomorpha in sump, Rowaphos in phosphate reactor, live rock
Water Changes:  25% weekly (daily while fry kreisel is operating)
Water Temperature:  72-76 F
Lighting:  HO T5 2 x 39 W, 1 Actinic 450 and 1 Super Daylight 6500 K
Lighting Cycle:  12 Hr photoperiod
Other Tank Inhabitants:  Clean up crew-- Turbo snails and red-legged hermits

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types:  PE Mysis, Hikari Mysis, Enriched Brine, occasional live ghost shrimp
Feeding Schedule:  2-3 times daily

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn:  Both males arrived pregnant.  First broods lost to filter sock.  First spawn in my tank was 2 August, 2010.
Spawn Time of Day:  Not witnessed.
Dates of Consecutive Spawns:  20 August, 2010, and 23 August, 2010 (different males), 3 September, 2010.
Courtship Details:  Larry loves Freckles, and Big Bob loves Miss Piggy.
Egg Size: 
Egg Color: 
Egg Count: 

Hatch Details
Hatch Date:  First brood birthed 19 August, 2010.
Hatch Time of Day:  About 1:00 AM
# Days after Spawn:  16 1/2
Larvae Description:  Several hundred (appx. 375) small fry about 7 mm long


Larval Tank Details
Temperature:  Ambient room temp ~ 72 F
Size of Larval Tank:  Jelliquarium Ephyra grow-out: http://www.jelliquarium.c...ls.aspx?productID=3112
Alternative tanks used are 1-gallon fishbowls lit from top and bottom, with an airline in one corner.
Substrate Details:  Bare bottom
Other Tank Decor:  None
Filtration Details:  10 Gallon sump with HOB Penguin Bio-Wheel 350 filter + bio balls + live rock
The 1-gallon tanks have no filtration, per se.  Live T-Iso used as greenwater.  Twice daily siphoning and frequent small water changes, plus judicious use of AmQuel Plus and Prime.
Lighting:  15W fluorescent
Lighting Cycle:  24 hrs
Water Changes:  50-75% daily.  The small fishbowls get frequent (2-3 times a day), small (10%) water changes.

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types:  Enriched rotifers, Enriched Instar II-III BBS, Apocyclops panamensis, Euterpina acutifrons
Brood #2 was fed almost exclusively A. panamensis.  They got a few rotifers on day One, and some enriched BBS, but they never really liked the BBS.  The are copepod pigs!
Feeding Schedule:  Many times daily.  Every time their guts don't look full, and when the snicking stops. 4-5 times daily at first, and then more like 2-3 times daily at two weeks.

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start:  Hitching seen with some individuals of Brood #2 at Day 11.
Days after Hatch: 
Date of Settlement End: 
Description of Fry: 

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature: 
Size of Grow-Out Tank: 
Substrate Details: 
Other Tank Decor: 
Filtration Details: 
Lighting: 
Lighting Cycle: 
Water Changes: 
Size at Transfer: 
Age at Transfer: 

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Additional Information
Miscellaneous Information: 



You will be required to provide photographic evidence in this thread of each event submitted for the MBI Program.
If your thread does not contain these photos the MBI Committee will not be able to approve your reports.

Wow Jim, it looks like we are in a very similar situation! I received 2 pregnant males from a seller on 8-19 and they both gave birth in acclimation.  Good luck!

The first brood documented in this Breeding Journal was the offspring of the seahorses named "Freckles" and "Larry".  This morning, I awoke to a second brood, this time the offspring of "Miss Piggy" and "Big Bob".  Only about 120 fry in this brood.
 
Since the kreisel is busy right now as a home for Brood #1, I put these few fry in a 1 gallon fishbowl, and made a small kreisel out of it by bubbling air up from the center of the bottom of the bowl (user BlakeT's suggestion made over on MOFIB).  This brood got a first food of Apocyclops panamensis, and they immediately started eating them up!  They seem to prefer the copepodites.  The adults get their interest, but are generally too active and fast.  The nauplii are too small to be interesting.  I also tried some rotifers on them, but they weren't interested in them.  Later in the day, I did a 90% water change, and added in a very dense culture of A. panamensis, and about 10% of a medium-dense T-Iso culture to give them greenwater (brownwater?).  I put the whole setup on top of an inverted 5-gallon tank, with the light underneath, to draw them down, away from the top to hopefully avoid the air snicking problem.
 
Meanwhile, Brood #1 got a nice meal of enriched BBS.  They ate well -- many full bellies to be seen.  A total of about 110 fry have been culled from Brood #1.  I still don't have any idea how many remain.
 
Since I'm new here, I have a stupid question:  How do I edit my first post in this thread to update it?  I don't see any "Edit" button or option available to me.  What am I missing?  TIA -- Jim.
 

Oh!  I forgot the pictures:
 
Fat fry from Brood #1:
 

 
Newborn fry from Brood #2 this morning:
 

 
Fry hunting copepod from Brood #2 this afternoon:
 

 
 

Attached Image(s)

Jim,
 
When you mouse over the "reply to message" button you should get an edit option.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Nice pictures Jim.
 
BTW, once you start filling out breeding reports, note that for livebearers, like seahorse or banggai, the spawn and hatch occure at the same time.  I'm not certain on settlement; perhaps Tal can chime in regarding that.

Rook

Well, it looks like Doni Marie was right about these:  At Day 12, Brood #1 has only about 3 healthy fry left out of an original 375 or so!  At about day 8, they just stopped eating.  I doubt any will ultimately survive. They got rotifers as first food, and enriched BBS after about day 2 or 3, plus some A. panamensis copepods as supplements.  I've been culturing them in live T-Iso green water.
 
Brood #2, on the other hand, is doing a little better.  They got A. panamensis copepods as first food.  They only saw rotifers on Day 1 long enough for me to see that they weren't interested in them.  They have had a dense culture of copepods every day, and also enriched BBS as a supplement.  They've been in live T-Iso based green water every day, too.   They are at Day 9 today.
 
A power outage today caused today's culture of enriched BBS to suffocate, so Brood #2 has only the copepods to eat today, but they are still chowing down.  Here's a picture:
 

 
I am expecting another large brood this coming weekend, and another smaller one shortly after that.  I'll keep experimenting with foods and culture vessels and will report what I did and how it worked out here.
 
 
 
 

Attached Image(s)

I'll use Banggai as an example.  A holding male is considered a spawn, hatching and settlement is achieved when the male releases viable offspring

So, Jim had a spawn when the male was holding, hatch and settlement once the ponies were released?

Rook

With pelagic fry like H. reidi, wouldn't settlement be when they start hitching?

That is my understanding. Banggai are a bit different.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Jim, the two week point is tough.
IME, once reidi begin to hitch, they prefer crawling pods.  The two that I had survive (from the several batches I tried) ate mostly crawling pods and very little from the water column. They loved to hunt from the bottom, sides and on their hitches. It takes a LOT of pods for just a few juvies but try some the next go.

Doni Marie~

There are two weak, but still eating fry left from batch #1, at day 14 now.  There are 20-25 fry of various sizes at day 11 from batch #2.  They really don't like enriched bbs.  They LOVE A. panamensis copepods!
 

 

 

Attached Image(s)

Nice photos! They are looking good, Jim. I still have nightmares about losing all my H. comes.  Pelagic seahorses were very frustrating for me.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Larry gave me another several hundred this morning.  My T-Iso is not producing as fast as I would like, so my A. panamensis are not producing as fast as I would like.
 
Fortunately, I have a robust rotifer culture, and Randy Reed has recently comped me a bunch of his products to try out!  As a result, I have a bunch of very nutritious rotifers cultured on Roti-Grow Plus, and then enriched with N-Rich.  The new fry are in a fishbowl with many enriched rotifers, a few copepods, and some live Nanno for green water.  Here are some pics:
 

 

 
The first brood of 375 is now down to just one weak fry.  The second batch of 120 is now about 20 mostly very strong, fat fry of various sizes and colors.  They are all eating well.  They have gotten big enough to have decimated the adult A. panamensis, including all the egg-bearing females.  They got fed BBS enriched with Reed Mariculture Shellfish Diet + N-Rich today.  They are eating the enriched BBS up:
 

 
 

Attached Image(s)

Good luck with this batch Jim! Congrats on the 20 that are doing well. Every day is a success!

The O. marina like that RotiGrow+ and NRich, and will get your copepod production back up.... Just saying....

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Yeah, I know what you mean Andy, but I've been culturing the copepods with live T-Iso, and have just kept a "stock maintenance" culture of O. marina, and not a production one.  I'm working on ramping up the O. marina production now, since my T-Iso is running short.
 
I see that you and Gale (at least) are continuing to successfully maintain A. panamensis cultures raised on O. marina and phyto pastes.  What is the current protocol you are using?

The O. marina reproduces so fast, you can halve the culture twice a day. Heck, you can be in production mode in a couple of days, tops.
 
The O. marina: .75 mL/gal, twice per day of RotiGrow+, AND 2-3 drops of NRich per gallon, twice per day.
 
For the Apocyclops, I harvest about 1/5th of the culture daily and replace that water with O. marina.
 
To all of it, I give 1 mL/gal. of ClorAmX per gallon, twice per day.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Thanks, Andy!
 
The ClorAm-X is at a concentration of 16 tsp / Liter, yes?

Yes, exactly.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Thanks for the confirmation.  I did some calcs on the ammonia control:
 
ClorAm-X weighs 5.33 grams / tsp.
16 tsp = 85.33 grams
According to the label, it takes 0.0319 grams of ClorAm-X to neutralize 1 mg of ammonia.
Therefore, that 16 tsp of ClorAm-X is enough to neutralize 85.33 / 0.0319 = 2675 mg of ammonia.
That means each ml of the solution will neutralize 2675 / 1000 = 2.675 mg of ammonia.
 
Translating this for users of AmQuelPlus:
 
According to the label, 5 ml of AmQuelPlus will neutralize 1.2 mg of ammonia in 40 liters of water.
That means that 5 / 40 = 0.125 ml of AmQuelPlus will neutralize 1.2 mg of ammonia.
Which means that 0.125 / 1.2 = 0.1042 ml of AmQuelPlus will neutralize 1.0 mg of  ammonia.
So, the 2.675 mg of ammonia referenced above will be neutralized by 0.1042 * 2.675 = 0.28 ml of AmQuel Plus.
 
So, basically, we can give a rough equivalent of 1/4 (1/3 if you want to be extra safe) ml of AmQuelPlus = 1 ml of the ClorAm-X solution for ammonia control.
 
The AmQuelPlus has the additional benefits of being pH buffered, and it also helps control nitrite, too!
 

Well, my O. marina cultures are ramped up now, and I'll be feeding some to my Apocyclops tonight.  As an aside, I have been doing some more experimentation, and initial results indicate that Apocyclops may do well on just live Nannochloropsis, so for those who just grow Nanno, Apocyclops cultivation may be an option!
 
My most recent batch of H. reidi fry born last Thursday morning (Larry & Freckles offspring) are divided into two containers:  one with about 100 fry that are being fed primarily Apocyclops in T-Iso "green water", with some rotifers and some enriched BBS, and another container that has been fed only rotifers for the first 5 days.  Late tonight, the end of Day 5, I did a big water change and added a few Apocyclops and enriched BBS for them to eat, too.  The rotifer batch have been feeding quite nicely on the rotifers.  I've been culturing the rotifers with Roti-Grow Plus, and have been enriching them for 12 hours +/- 6 hours with N-Rich.  I've also been using the Reed Mariculture product "Roti-Green" on them, as a preserved green water product.
 
My initial observations about Roti-Green:  The first time I used it, I used too much.  Immediate results were very negative!  Immediate "scratching" behavior, like what I see with ammonia or nitrite toxicity, started within just minutes.  The fry stopped eating.  Another batch of some 30 "warning babies" that I also used the Roti-Green on with too much dosage were wiped out within about 1/2 hour.  The Roti-green had been stored in the fridge for about a week after receipt.  I don't think it had had a chance to turn bad.  I was horrified, and did a huge water change on the rotifer-eating batch of fry to dilute the Roti-Green, and things immediately got much better!  Over the next day, I saw almost every fry had Kelley Green guts instead of the usual brownish/orangish color of the ones eating rotifers.  I am continuing to use the Roti-Green, but much more cautiously.  I've frozen most of it in ice cube trays.  The dosage I am using is 1/2 ml / Gallon.  The Roti-Green product does seem to keep the rotifers nicely enriched.  This evening, after the major water change, I sieved the Roti-Green maintained rotifers, and they looked nice and green in the sieve.  I was impressed!  Initial impressions of this product is that it does a good job of keeping the rotifers enriched, as long as you use it in moderation.
 
 

I just gave up on a batch of Apocyclops that I was culturing only with algae paste. Individuals in the culture lasted surprisingly long, but it never thrived and it needed lots of intense work. It certainly needed daily 100% water changes. If I went to two days, the culture would take a big hit. But they were still reproducing in there for 2-3 weeks before the whole thing started to peter out.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Larry gave me another brood this morning.  This one was much larger than before, I'd estimate about 500:
 



 
I've split them into two batches.  One will get only A. panamensis as first food, and the other will get only enriched rotifers as first food.  The copepod batch will have live T-Iso as green water, and the rotifer batch will have Roti-green as green water.  Let's see what happens!
 

Attached Image(s)

Jim,

Do you have any pics of the parents?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Jim,
 
Do you have pics of the parents so that we can confirm the species?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Sure.  Give me a day or two to get around to it.  Just curious:  is there some recent reason to doubt the frys' parentage?

 

I never put the two together, I just assumed that seahorse fry "scratched" from time to time. By scratch are you referring to the fry using their tails to scratch the snout or other parts?

Yes, I mean using their tails to scratch their snouts, gills, the back of their head, etc.  In my experience that behavior is generally a clear indication of an ammonia problem building up.  Not sure what it was when I used a little too much Roti-Green, though.

OK, Here ya go:

 

The Female:



 

The Male:



 

The two together:

Attached Image(s)

Nice pix, thanks Jim!

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

An update:  I haven't been posting much on my H. reidi breeding efforts largely due to one reason:  I keep failing.  Up until this most recent batch, I kept getting them up to about 4 1/2 weeks, and then they would all drop dead on me.  Very reliably, around about days 30-33, they would just stop eating and start dying.  Usually the biggest, fattest ("healthiest" ???) ones would die first, and by day 33, only one or two srawny runts would be left, and die the next day.  I never had any of them live to see 5 weeks.

 

Well, I finally have a batch of fry that are currently on day 44!  I have 29 fry still alive out of a brood of perhaps 100, and have had no deaths in 10 days.  I did have a slight die-off during days 30-33, but only lost 11 during that period this time.  The most significant change I've made with this batch is that for the first 40 days, they never saw a single BBS.  They were fed rotifers to start, for the first couple of days.  From day 3 forward I added Apocyclops panamensis, which has been a considerable staple for them ever since, to the diet.  They also saw some Acartia tonsa during the first two weeks, but not much because my A. tonsa cultures aren't doing that well.  They also got a few of these interesting, red-colored mystery calanoids that hitchiked in with the Moina salina from Germany, but these copepods are large and fast, and weren't very easy for the 1-2 week old fry to catch.  Starting around the 2 week mark, I started adding Tigriopus to the diet.  From 2 weeks on, Apocyclops and Tigriopus made up probably 90-95% of the diet.  The rest was a few Acartia, the mystery calanoid and some Moina salina each day.  They also got some rotifers, and I noticed when they got hungry, even several week old fry would still eat rotifers off the glass.

 

Around day 40, overharvesting and other vagaries of copepod culturing had taken its toll, and I was no longer confident I could keep them fed with copepods only, so I broke down and gave them some 48-hour old BBS enriched with Dan's Feed.  In just the last few days, copepods have rebounded, so they're back on a copepod-only diet.

 

More later as things develop.

 

Very exciting to hear the success Jim. Interesting observations on the BBS; it's good for those fry you have a nice buffet of pods for them.

BTW, you should do a thread showing some details of you pod culture stations and methods. I'm sure it would prove very helpful to many breeders around here.

Rook

Nice job, Jim. They certainly sound like an ordeal. How large are the fry at this point?

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Depressing update:  Within just a couple of days after feeding them the BBS, they started dying in droves.  I went from 29 to 6 left in just three days.  I now have only one left at day 60.  This lone survivor is a little more than 1" long at this point, and is a nice dark orange color.  The irony is that I only had to give them the BBS for, like, one day.  I think they'd have been better off starving for a day than having been fed the "evil" BBS.

 

This one lone fry is still living in a 2 gallon fishbowl.  The Tigriopus, Apocyclops, and Moina are self-sustaining in it, since I keep it a nice yellow color with Isochrysis.  If I am able to keep this one fry alive for 12 more days, then I'll have it to that "60 DPS" point!

 

Hey, "It only takes one".  Right?

Wow, sorry to hear that.  Is it conclusive that the demise is the result of the BBS, or is it coincidental?

Rook

Following closely. I have a "friend" who is going to let me raise these at her "house", expecting a deliver today or tomorrow, fingers crossed.
 
(Is it OK if I use the term "friend"? You guys know who/where I mean?)

http://www.suzysreef.com/

 

I'd say neither.  I wouldn't call it "conclusive", just because there's not enough scientific method involved.  But I doubt it is "coincidental", either.  The behavior of the fry after introducing the BBS was the same as I've seen before at about 4 weeks:  They hitch, and just stop eating.  They just stare into space for a day or two, and then die.  Many died still hitched, and I had to actually un-hitch their tails in order to remove them.

 

The parents have taken a bit of a break from breeding, and frankly, it is welcome right now.  If/when they start up again, I hope to have my zooplankton cultures (sans BBS) going well enough to totally avoid the BBS.  If a truly BBS-free approach dramatically improves survival, THEN, I'd call it "conclusive".

Sorry, Jim. I hate BBS. I always have problems after I introduce it. That's one of the things that I'm thankful for the Apocyclops for. They can take the place of BBS.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886