Request for "latitude" in Oxymoncanthus 60 DPS requirement

Hey Guys...so here's the deal.  I put together my O. longirostris journal at http://www.lsmac.org/smf/...opic=140.msg714#msg714
 
In going through all my MOFIB posts, the last images I posted there were 106 days post hatch.  Now, here's the kicker...I consider settlement on this species to be 55 days post hatch.  That means I was 9 days short with my last photograph.  I've been LOOKING and looking and frankly, I just never bothered to take any more pictures of the babies, as I was busy focusing my efforts on getting BETTER images of new babies
 
Now, I'm bringing this up publicly so we can point to it later if there is ANY question of the acheivement.  I have to raise the issue that other people watching this species develop put meta/settlement as early as 28 days post hatch, others 40.  If those are the actual dates, then I'm free and clear regardless.  I could write that in my reports and since I'm the only one to date who's ever reared the fish, you'd have to take my word for it and my 106 day photograph would be adequate evidence.
 
BUT...I'm not gonna do that.  I believe firmly that true settlement happens at 55/56 days OR LATER depending on the stage of development.  As such, I'm requesting that my 106 day photograph be accepted as sufficient proof of my post-settlement success, as well as my word that the 2nd batch baby lived to 6 months with the 3rd batch baby living to 4 (#2 died of amyloodinium, and #3 died from jumping).
 
Now...I *MAY* still have the frozen body of #2...I know I kept it for a long time.  But...we may have thrown it out...you know...kinda morbid to keep it for over a year!  Anyway....looking for a public discussion.  Pled my case..hoping for some latitude / understanding as I head in to write up my formal reports.

Well, I'm not a member of the Council so my thoughts probably don't hold much sway, but I'll take your word for it since I was following your thread since the beginning

That's a pretty resounding endorsement Gale!

Just a "BTW", I did go through all my original photos from March 19th to  the end of June in 2009 and did not see ANY images.  I do have some Nikon .nef files that *MAY* have been additional photos and if so, would have hit the 60 DPS requirement by ALL measurements.  Going to get Nikon View installed on this computer so I can check them.
 
I have NOT yet checked my freezer, but if it's still there, I suppose I could thaw it, take a picture with the measurements....

It's my opinion that, in this case, you're close enough to the mark. Being the X-Prize we should grant a little latitude due to the nature of the prize itself.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

I think over time there are going to be some instances like this where latitude will be needed (and deserved).  IMHO the most important peices are the efforts to *document* and *raise* the fish both of which have been done, a few days here and there in my mind is not of the largest concern.

Pelagically yours,
~J      

I was thinking about this some more, and I realized that there may already be a precedent for cases like this and others.  I.e., I made a note on KathyL's Neon Goby report about the lack of photographic evidence for the eggs.  Clearly, we all know she had the spawn because the babies are evidence in and of themselves, but of course, there is also the obvious understanding that we all know and trust KathyL not to be fabricating anything either (i.e. she didn't go get the babies from someone else and then say she spawned them).  In truth, there is one of those things were documenting the eggs would've proved beyond difficult (as they were laid inside a PVC pipe)...all the more reason that the MBI Council can safely assume what is reported is accurate without additional verification.  Furthermore, I think we already have similar such reports...i.e. I know I never managed to photograph the eggs of my Priolepis hipoliti, yet I know you all approved that report (I think it bears mentioning that just as a matter of common sense, no MBI council member casts a vote to approve his/her own reports).
 
There will be other times when we might have to come back for more verification / evidence however, so I'd think having certain discussions like this in the open demonstrates the thought process behind the MBI Council's decisions, which arguably I'd say is important seeing as how we constitute the "referees" of the "game".
 
 

Well, there was mention at one time that presence of a later stage constitutes proof that the animals had gone through the earlier stage. There may well be cases where there is intent to defraud (though I can really hardly imagine why anyone would bother, given that this is, in the end, just a game) and we have to keep a lookout for that, but I certainly sniff no intent to defraud here. Especially as the events in question happened before the game was even invented.
 
You told me, Matt, long before you even thought about posting up here, how long your fish had survived and how it died. Good enough for me.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Well said, this point I think illustrates one of the major reasons the board and the community are so good here.  The openness and dignity of the atmosphere will serve it well.

Pelagically yours,
~J      

Matt, I have no issue with the granting of "latitude" in this case.  Like already said there will be cases were latitude will need used.  All of these decision are on a case by case basis.

Well guys, I checked the freezer tonight and guess what...body still in there in a block of ice.  Going to defrost, take measurements and photos.  The length measurement alone should be interesting to see how big this fish actually was at approximately 6 months post hatch.
 
Anyone have any ideas what I should do with the body after it is documented?  I've been holding onto it for some time.  I could refreeze it, but not sure what that would do to it.

Have it mounted like John C. did with his angelfish

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Good idea Chad!  I forgot about that

How did John C. have his fish MOUNTED?  Shellac from a spray can?
 
First, thank you all for participating in a discussion about "leway" and the application of common sense in situations where proof is difficult.  I think you all demonstrated that this IS a subjective call and was not made simply on a "I'll take your word for it" even though several of you basically said just that LOL!  FYI guys, I took the pictures and the fish is now frozen again.  I updated my journal thread. Here is a (dead) 6 month old Harlequin Filefish, frozen for roughly 1 year.
 
Standard length was 34 mm, or 3.4 cm, aka. 1.3 inches.  Total length is 39mm / 3.9 cm, or 1.5 inches.  At six months of age, this fish was fully "market size".

Speachless

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Wow, that little guy looks really good for being in deep freeze so long.
 
Oh, btw, I was only taking your word for it because I followed your thread over on the "other" site.

lol I dont think too many people really just took your word for it on this one Matt.  Your successes with this species has been well documented in plenty of other places and quite frankly, pretty high profile!
 
Whats the subject of your presentation at MACNA this year?

Pelagically yours,
~J      

Joe - "Rethinking the Harlequin Filefish" - you got to see it @ Reef Ed

*lol*
 
I know Matt, I've considered the schedule, I'm just jivin ya!!  Mostly on the premise that your asking for latitude on a subject that we all know your more than familiar and deserving in regards to.
 
Man we gotta work on your ego, no wonder you didnt fit in with MOFIB... your just too damn much of a normal human being. 

Pelagically yours,
~J      

 
What a jab.  Ouch! My wife assures me almost daily that I'm at least "weird"...

But a "good" kind of weird....

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

lol I wont tell you guys what my wife assures me of...
 
rest assured weird is a compliment

Pelagically yours,
~J