Originally Posted by
slosht Matt Pedersen's Lightning project is what got me thinking about this. To summarize he is attempting to force the Lightning to remain a male by keeping it in an aquarium with a much larger female (separated by egg crate). At this juncture he is looking for a suitable PNG female for him and is not intending to permanently pair the Labrador with the Lightning.
Yes, that's basically the jist. So much of fish "sex" is "social pressure" and "social cues". I.e. what prevents my female Centropye argi from becoming males? The fact that there is male around.
Originally Posted by
slosht So assuming one wanted a pair of clownfish would it be better to take 2 juvenile clowns and place them in a tank together, let them bicker and try to reign supreme until the lesser clown submits. The dominate will become the female and the other the male. This is unless the bickering becomes so intense that 1 of them is killed or flat out rejected as a suitable mate.
This is the general advice, but there is a twist that is usually given. Even when pairing up juveniles, the general rule is to make sure there is at least a little size difference. Having the size difference helps ensure that there is a clear winner. The more aggressive the species, perhaps the bigger size difference needed (i.e. Maroons). Of course, there are some clownfish species that as adults do NOT have a size difference among mates, and others that have extreme size differences. Still, from the standpoint of forming a pair, having a size difference can be helpful.
Originally Posted by
slosht Or to take an existing female and a juvenile and pair the two up for the purpose of making the juvenile the male and then once the juvenile is a male to remove him from the female and put that male in with a new juvenile thus forcing the male to turn into a female and the new juvenile to become the male in the permanent pairing.
I think you're over thinking this, at least on the premise of simply trying to form a breeding pair, assuming you have your choice of whatever 2 fish you wish to work with. If you have an existing female, great, because it takes longer for fish to mature into functional females vs. functional males. I.e. the reason it can take 3 years for Perculas to spawn is because the fish may need at least 3 years to have grown enough and matured enough to become a functional female. Meanwhile, we have documented cases of percs as young as 8 months being able to be fertile males. But it's not like that fish could've become a functional, egg laying female at 8 months of age.
So, if you have a female, any juvenile fish should work well for a pair, and there you have it. No need to make the juvenile a functional male only to go pair him with a third fish...why ditch a perfectly good female?
Of course, in a more complicated situation, things like this DO come into play. I.e. I have a small PNG "male" in with a Gold Stripe maroon simply to ensure that the PNG stays male. Meanwhile, I have 2 PNG "males" in a 10 gallon, one in a breeder box, one with run of the tank. They hate each other. The last PNG "male" is a bit larger, almost as big as the Lighting Maroon now, and lives in a breeder basket.
The truth is that I could "create" a PNG female by taking one of these adolescent or male Maroons and pairing it up with something smaller. I.e., I could go out and find a little CB Gold Stripe Maroon. Pair it up with one of those males in the 10 gallon tank, and a year from now I might have a big, functional female. I could then swap the male out to be the Lighting Maroon, and that leftover GSM male could be paired up with the GMS that is currently paired with a PNG male, being kept male specifically so I could pair it up if I wanted the Lightning Maroon to go female (which I lean towards at times).
And there's all these other spare fish around...I have a spawning pair of WS Maroons coming in less than 2 weeks, and I'll be using them to participate in some mate shuffling just like this. The beauty of a male clownfish is that it can remain male, or it can be allowed to become female. It is rare (only one or two documented cases) that a female clownfish can revert back to male. Thus, with a desirable fish, better to keep it male to improve chances of pairing it with some other unknown clownfish out there that could show up in the future.