Probiotics for larval tanks?

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Umm_fish?
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Probiotics for larval tanks? - Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:18 AM
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Let me say up front that I'm not a fan of adding bacteria to try to speed up the cycle in a normal tank. It just seems like a waste of money, since the tank will cycle just fine on its own.

 

But ...

 

What's the thought with larval tanks? I don't like the idea of adding system water into my larval system--I can see the hydroids in there, after all--but it seems like a lot to ask to wait six weeks for a cycle between larval runs (and I really do think it helps to have a functional biofilter established). So ... anyone used 'em? Pros? Cons?
--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Electrokate
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Re:Probiotics for larval tanks? - Thursday, October 21, 2010 1:40 PM
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This came out a while ago, don't know what is in most commercial aquarium probiotics.

http://www.practicalfishk...campaign=April_19_2010

Kate

 

 

THEJRC
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Re:Probiotics for larval tanks? - Thursday, October 21, 2010 6:34 PM
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nope...
 
in fact I did run my recent larval tank with an established sponge filter which gave me little to no beneift (bacteria could not keep up with bio load).  If your having success with your current water changing process it's probably not worth changing?
Pelagically yours,
~J      

Reefspur
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Re:Probiotics for larval tanks? - Monday, December 3, 2012 9:51 PM
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It looks like details of the study have been published.  
http://www.umces.edu/imet...w-faster-and-healthier
 
http://www.plosone.org/ar...2Fjournal.pone.0045572

DanUnderwood
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Re:Probiotics for larval tanks? - Tuesday, December 4, 2012 1:01 PM
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I use both probiotics and bacteria for cycling.  Two different things with different purposes.
 
For cycling, I use the bacteria from Fritz Pets.  I have also used the stuff from Aquatic Eco but like the Fritz stuff better.  Whenever we empty a fry system or seller system, we will nuke the system with bleach, scrub it down, neutralize it, drain, refill with new water and add bacteria for cycling and add fish.  Within 24 hours I can have the system back up and running.  Currently we are averaging a system a week that we do this to.
 
Dan

reefer addict
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Re:Probiotics for larval tanks? - Tuesday, December 4, 2012 10:43 PM
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The only bacteria additive I've heard good things about is Dr. Tims. I think mpederson has had success with it.

KathyL
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Re:Probiotics for larval tanks? - Monday, October 7, 2013 10:06 PM
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I've been thinking about this a lot.  I have some of Inve's MIC-F, and I recently bought with very expensive shipping, a couple ounces of Fritz's Turbo start.  Now I realize that the bacteria in MIC-F are supposed to populate the gut of the larvae, and the Turbo Start is more for ammonia control of the tank, but the MIC-F is supposed to help with ammonia control as well, so this expermient was about survival and ammonia control.
 
I used three 15 gallon tanks filled half way, after my usual routine of cleaning, with 27 ppt saltwater, new but aged 24 hours.  All three had identical 100 Watt Eheim Jager heaters, set to give 81F water, and an airstone. All three were bleached at 1 ml per gallon for 24 hours, then dechlorinated with sodium thiosulfate, and tested for chlorine. The first tank was dosed with Fritz's Turbo Start according to directions, the second tank got MIC-F according to directions, and the third tank was a control tank.  These bacteria or spores were added September 25.  Also added on that day to each tank was 100 ml of live isochrysis, because I had it and I'm not sure why, but I doubt that it hurt anything.
 
The following day, I hatched a small nest of A. ocellaris in a bucket.  I distributed them 70 to a tank, by scooping 10 larvae into a small plastic cup and delivering 10 to each tank in succession until I had 70 each.
 
I fed each tank 500 ml of my enriched rotifer culture which  had 900 rotifers per ml.  I filtered out the rotifer culture water and only fed the rotifers.  I put in 10 drops of RotiGreen twice daily or as needed to each tank.  Each tank was lit by 12 inches of a cool white LED strip suspended 12 inches from the tank, probably 18 inches from the water. 14 hours day, 10 hours dark. 
 
On September 28, I had 23 dead bodies counted on the bottom of the Turbo Start tank, 27 dead in the MIC-F tank, and 23 dead in the control tank.
 
 The next day, I found it easier to count the live ones:
Turbo 17, MIC-F 10, control 7.
 
The following day, 
Turbo 17, MIC-F 8, control 6.
 
There were no further losses until day 7 when the experiment was ended, and all remaining larvae were merged into the TurboStart tank. It's day 12, metamorphosis has been going on, and all appear well.
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KathyL
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Re:Probiotics for larval tanks? - Monday, October 7, 2013 10:14 PM
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Discussion:
Rather disappointing yield from this nest.  Not sure why. I don't usually get a massive die off in the first 3 days. It is what it is.
 
Turbo start appeared to protect something in those three days, though, as the die off was less severe in the TurboStart tank.  I added Seachem ammonia Alert badges a day or two too late, but the readings on all tanks were identical, despite the claims of Turbo Start that there may be no cycle. There was a low level of ammonia in all tanks.
 
I am not sure what any of this means, or if it means anything at all. I did not have enought tries at this or enough larvae to make me feel that any differences were  significant.  
 
check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
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DanUnderwood
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Re:Probiotics for larval tanks? - Monday, October 7, 2013 10:51 PM
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Interesting Kathy.
 
The MIC-F should not have been expensive to ship.  We normally ship via small flat rate priority mail.
 
I haven't used the MIC-F for ammonia control.  We use it strictly as a probiotic.  We gut load live organisms with it and then dose the tanks according to directions.  If we see any unusual mortality, we double or triple the dose.   Our survival rates are higher using it than not using it.  Where it pays the biggest dividends is when we have high survival rates and the tanks are overstocked (500 3 inch juvenile seahorses in 90 gal), the tanks are noticeably cleaner when using it.
 
Turbo-Start we use strictly for seeding a new bio filter.  It is not unusual for us to sterilize a system, dose with Turbo-Start and go.  Because we have high stocking densities, I dose a lot more than the directions which are aimed at a typical display tank.  Once the product is more than a couple of weeks old, I do find that it doesn't work as well and takes more to do the job.
 
Dan

KathyL
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Re:Probiotics for larval tanks? - Tuesday, October 8, 2013 8:24 AM
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TurboStart was the only shipping that was expensive. The MIC-F I bought from Dan and was quite reasonable.  I had previously used it for a goby run that was reasonably successful, when I had not had much luck before, and I wondered about the affect on clownfish larvae.
 
I did not gut load with the MIC-F.  I should try that next.
check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
Captive bred clownfish and more
(Wholesale to the trade.)