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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Friday, December 31, 2010 4:16 PM
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Hi Dave, Thanks for reading my journal and thanks for your questions. I'll start by saying that my goal with this nest was Day 3 and didn't really do enough concrete planning for beyond. If I had it to do over again, I would have nailed down the first three foods before ever attempting to raise a nest. I thought I had done that but I was wrong so my entire approach has been loosely based around my understanding of Hoff + Wilkerson and has evolved rapidly over the last two weeks. Rotifers. I overfed rotifers early on. I bought 1G of T-Iso with a rotifer density of 10/mL. Once a day I strained 1L of this culture through a 53 uM plankton collector and finally backwashed this using water from the parent's tank. I did for 5 days and realized that I had way too many rotifers in culture with my larva so I cut back on rotifers to 500mL per day and again to 250mL. During the two weeks the rotifer culture has switched from T-Iso to Nanno which is where it's at today. Attempting to batch harvest such a small colony of rotifers wasn't smart at least at the rate I used. I'm nearly out of rotifers and not all of this nest is ready. I learned the hard way that culturing live algae for rotifers is hard and expensive when things go wrong. I'm switching to the Reed RotiGrow and RotiGreen system for the next try. Dry Food. I introduced dry food on Day 3 for the first feeding of the day. I also began vacuuming 2L of larval water before the next feeding to remove any left over flake immediately. I've been mixing Ocean Nutrition Formula 2 and Reef Formula flakes in a mortar and pestle. I've been grinding a very fine consistency. Somewhere around Day 9 I added second dry feeding each day. I recently bought an Otohime starter kit and think my grindings are around a B1. I started using B1 today and will probably stick with Otohime until my starter kit is finished. Brine Shrimp. I introduced brine shrimp on day 5. I've been decapsulating the brine with chlorine and storing 3 days supply in the fridge. I have two of the black plastic bases and 2L hatcheries going constantly. I've been hatching the brine shrimp in a solution made by mixing 25g non-Iodized table salt with a pinch of baking powder and a few drops of dechlor (thio). I've tried to add 1/4 teaspoon of bbs each split over two feedings each day. The second feeding has 0.25 mL Selcon added after the first half is harvested. I have a feeling that I've added too many brine shrimp as I can see large free swimming versions in the larval tank. Surprisingly this has been the biggest challenge and I'm not sure how to improve on this step for the next attempt. I'm considering buying decap'd brine shrimp to start with but still need to work out the hatch timings. I think I need to light the hatcheries 24/7 with small hot lamps too. Today. Today I'm adding about 250mL of rotifers which isn't much really. I switched to Otohime B1 feedings and will try using it again. I've used it 3 times so far today. I plan on ramping dry food up as I believe it's my best chance at success. I'm still feeding brine shrimp as described but am hoping to discontinue soon. I'm thinking of offering Rod's Coral Food or Cyclopeeze instead. Any input is most welcome. The larval tank lit for 16 hours each day. It's located in the same room with my other phyto cultures and gets quite a bit of light from the side. I'll leave the black plastic on until after meta next time. The parents have been laying on the inside surface of a shell which I don't know how to aerate. I didn't want to disturb them but since I let a very large nest go last night I'll risk it. With the shell gone, she will have to use a clay pot, a tile, or the tank itself. If you stuck with this long winded response, thanks again and Happy New Year!
<message edited by ignatz on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:12 AM>
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Saturday, January 1, 2011 5:09 AM
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Nest 2 Update -
Dec. 31 - 9.
The first and second stripes are now visible with no magnification. The orange coloration has begun which I think is part of the juvenile coloration! Most but not all of the remaining individuals seem healthy.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Sunday, January 2, 2011 6:50 AM
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Nest 2 Update -
Jan. 1 - 10
Most of the survivors are displaying a nice orange color with a bold first stripe and a tiny second stripe. There are a few individuals that appear to be late stage larvae: no visible stripes, no orange, the eye looks very different from the early juveniles and they swim vertically with no waddle. Does this mean that settlement is still happening?
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Monday, January 3, 2011 10:50 AM
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Nest 2 Update - Jan. 2 - 4 I did not add any additional brine shrimp on Jan 2 and instead switched to cyclopeze and otohime. I added a piece of live rock approx. 3" in diameter.
<message edited by ignatz on Wednesday, January 5, 2011 8:15 AM>
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Tuesday, January 4, 2011 7:56 PM
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Hi there- first off- thank you for posting - not long winded at all, lol- found it to be good reading, and helpful for me. Your last post, though... soory... what was it you fed? A oiece of 'live' about 3" in diameter? Just curious... Thanks again for posting  Can't wait to see updated pics
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Tuesday, January 4, 2011 7:58 PM
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oops ... meant *sorry, and piece... (took abit of nyquil for a cold, lol sorry for the misspell) ok- time to get off, I will be back tomorrow- goodnight and again thanks for sharing your progress
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Tuesday, January 4, 2011 7:59 PM
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 Originally Posted by Chelle's Ocean
Your last post, though... soory... what was it you fed? A oiece of 'live' about 3" in diameter? Just curious...
I'm assuming that he added a piece of live rock...?
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Wednesday, January 5, 2011 3:30 AM
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Oh, ok.... was wondering that... so this is a good stage to add that to the tank? Will make a note of that. Thanks Tal
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Wednesday, January 5, 2011 8:46 AM
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Hi fishtal! You are correct sir, thank you! Hi Chelle's Ocean! Thanks for reading my journal and for finding my typo.  It's nice to see more Florida based breeders at the MBI, can't wait to read your journal. I decided to add the live rock early (Day 13) because I was doing 4+ bottom cleanups a day plus adding 10 drops of Prime and my constant Ammonia monitor was slightly olive colored. I would have used a sponge but I didn't have an aged one ready so I took some live rock from the parent's tank. I don't know if it helped or not but my Ammonia monitor isn't solid olive any longer. I'm thinking of adding a clump of chaeto to help out. I much prefer to see the baby clowns swimming on or near live rock than a bare wall or heater. The live rock does make suctioning the leftovers from the bottom more challenging. I will try to get some new pics of the babies soon but until then here's a pic of mom shortly after she made Nest 2.  Nest 2 Update - Jan 3 - 1 Jan 4 - 2 The fish cluster in a few small groups on the bottom and one larger group near the surface. They are all readily accepting the Otohime dry feeds (B1 and B2 soon to be B2 and C1) and the cyclopeeze. I've added irregular brine shrimp feedings that include cyclopeeze and will continue until I observe many eating the cyclopeeze and then no more brine shrimp! The fish are filling out but don't seem to be much larger than 3/8".
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Thursday, January 6, 2011 6:22 PM
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Very nice Good looking mamma I am using the Prime as well.... (do you prefer that to AmQuel?) I believe that was another suggestion in the past? Is one better than the other? What of macro algae? I read your comment of the cheato.... but I have also started up a macro tank, and was thinking of adding the babies to a similar set-up (when old enough of course), with a couple pieces of live rock and several types of macro plants. (thinking it would help in the ammonia reduction... am I off in my thinking?) Would they be too young for the plants? Also do you notice a color change in your female? Darker vs lighter when getting ready to lay? My female is swollen this evening, and I notice her color is a shade lighter than normal to me.... I wonder if this has anything to do with the time of laying the eggs... or just a coincidence?
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:03 AM
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Chelle's Ocean - I chose Prime for no other reason than Wilkerson mentions it specifically in her book. iirc, fishtal uses or used AmQuel but I have no personal experience with it. I actually had the same question wrt to the differences between Prime, AmQuel, ChlorAm-X, and Sodium Thiosulfate so I did some Googling and this is what I found: Sodium Thiosulfate will bind with the chlorine and chloramine molecules in water but will leave the ammonia molecules untouched. Use it to dechlor but not detox. Sodium Hydroxymethanesulfonate will bind with chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia molecules (and others) in water. This is the main ingredient in Prime, AmQuel (not AmQuel+), _and_ ChlorAm-X. Each brand seems to contain slightly different additional salts but they should all function similarly for detox. I am not sure about growing out in a macro tank. I haven't added any chaeto to my tank yet. Since adding the live rock, I learned that I must physically turn each piece over every time I clean the bottom of the tank. I suspect that _anything_ put into the tank will have this challenge so I think that next time I will use a sump with either a drilled 10G or more likely a BRT. I think that adding the macro to the sump might be the best option. I don't remember a color change but I'll keep an eye out this time. I expect her to lay again in 2-3 days. The body shape is unmistakable at this point; it looks like she swallowed a square shaped balloon. Additionally, she tends to extend her ovipositor for a 24+ hours before laying. Nest 2 Update - Jan 5 - 6 Jan 6 - 1 Jan 7 - 3 Jan 8 - 0 Jan 9 - 2 Since the last update, I've eliminated brine shrimp from their diet leaving only Otohime B2 coupled occasionally with Cyclopeeze. I've increased feedings and tank bottom cleanings to 4-6 times per day. Fin coloration has begun everywhere except the tail which remains clear. Cuteness factor is way up. I'm a bit concerned about the continued overnight deaths. The dead no longer appear to be the small, weak, or un/mis-developed. Both bodies from Jan 9 were larger full bodies individuals showing both bars. I wonder what could be the cause.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Tuesday, January 11, 2011 12:21 PM
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Nest 2 Update -
Jan 10 - 0
Jan 11 - 1
The youngsters are much more active now. Instead of spending much of their time bunched in a clown ball they are actively exploring the whole tank. The larger fish are actively defending territory. I added more live rock to make more hiding spaces. I replaced Otohime B2 with C1.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:01 AM
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The parents spawned again last night (1/11/11) for several hours. Mom was noticed with eggs hanging from her after light's out. This morning I see a tightly packed grouping of eggs covering approximately 4 square inches. All the eggs are fertilized. I couldn't bring myself to remove their shell since Dad does such a good job.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Saturday, January 22, 2011 7:54 AM
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The parents spawned again last night (1/21/2011); These fish are like machines... every 10 days. Hope I didn't jinx it by saying so out loud. One notable difference is that the parents chose to move their nesting site (shell). My guess was that they chose a location with more flow but my wife guessed they chose a location that offered more cover. Maybe a combination of both. From what I can see, this nest is very large. Hopefully I will be able to collect these larvae in 8 days time. Nest 2 Update - I haven't posted any updates until now for a good reason... there have been no more deaths! I estimate that there are between 40-50 remaining... or about 30-40% of the larvae that hatched. I am thrilled with this result that is right in line Hoff's historical average for December nests (21.7%). It seems like I had less die off pre-meta, a delayed meta with higher than average die-off. I think that my problems with the BBS caused the high post-meta death toll. Most of the fishes look like miniature versions of their parents by now. They have 3 bold stripes with only the tail fin's coloration remaining to develop. The largest fishes are 3/4"+ and the smallest fishes are around 1/4" in length. The small guys are scrappy and often to be found at the top of the water column first in line for food. The small guys also show full coloration with 3 stripes... they are just tiny like their father. What classifies as a pygmy clown? I've only been offering Otohime C1 and cyclopeeze for the last week. Everything offered is eaten and quickly. I'm feeding at least 4 times per day and vacuum the tank bottom only one or twice daily as needed. The live rock is working it's magic. I've converted the 10G tank to grow tank by filling it with water (was running at about 8G) and adding a HOB filter that has an active biologial filter. I positioned one of the air tubes so that it's bubbles flow over the HOB filter intake... hopefully this will help deter any adventurous babies from finding their way into the filter.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:08 PM
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Great update Congrats on no more losses I will be adding the live rock as well... in probably the same time frame you tried...as I am finding the olive /very light green coloration on my alert badge as well. Question to all: what about the chaeto as mentioned? How long do you need to wait to place this in the tank? Would it be better to add to a larval tank, for them to find cover in, and help fight the ammonia at the same time? Following for tips and good reading- Have a great weekend!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:46 AM
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Michelle - I posted the following on another site but I think it should be here also:
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I make my new water with RO/DI and never change salt mix brands. I test my RO/DI with 2 TDS meters before it's used for topoff or NSW. I adjust salinty every morning to 32ppt @ ~80F in all tanks and NSW. Before meta, I used water from the parent's tank that had been aged there for at least 24 hours. After meta, I've been doing water exchanges with another small tank that's running a seasoned HOB power filter with no other bio-load. After each feeding (4-6 times per day) I vacuum the bottom of the tank which will remove about 2L of water. I strain the detritus from this water before exchanging it with a like volume from the tank with the HOB filter. I test ammonia with a constant monitor and aim for <0.02ppm. I use Prime to detox the larva tank before adding any salt water.
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I'm pretty sure that the 'virtual sump' setup I described above along with the live rock I added to the tank and the constantly cleaned tank bottom completely managed the water quality. I relied almost totally on water exchanges instead of water changes after meta. I got lucky and this worked for me but if it hadn't I would've tried chaeto in the empty tank so that I wouldn't foul the macro with uneaten food.
Thanks again for reading along and asking questions that improve this journal! I hope you have a nice weekend too!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Monday, January 24, 2011 10:16 AM
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Monday, January 24, 2011 11:23 AM
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Awwwww. .. . .. Love it Thanks for sharing ! So cool to see the babies in motion.....that is what I keep striving for Great job!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Sunday, January 30, 2011 6:03 AM
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How are the babies doing? Any updates to share ?
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion ocellaris]
Monday, January 31, 2011 12:20 PM
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Three fish found their way into the HOB filter; The first two survived but the third did not.  Otherwise, the babies are quickly becoming pre-teens. They still spend their nights bundled together in a tight ball but day time sees them all go their separate ways. The spend a good amount of time trying to establish their own territory. Each time I approach the tank, they assume their feeding stations. I try to feed Otohime C2 at least 3 times per day and something frozen once per day. Tank bottom cleanings are down to once every 3-4 days. I'm working on setting up new grow-out space so I can try to raise another nest... for some reason, I feel like I just got lucky with this one.
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