Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails?

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Aloha Corals
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Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Monday, December 27, 2010 2:25 AM
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Aloha,

 

Was wondering if anybody is breeding turbo snails?

 

I have been doing it by accident for about a year and have finally decided to search out some information on breeding.   Currently i am breeding the endemic Hawaiian Turbo argyrostomus sandwicensis.

 

They are currently breeding in my coral holding tanks.   I also hold Left Handed Hermit crabs in these same tanks.  The first active step i have taken is separating my left handed hermit to stop them from stealing turbo shells.  The systems are plumbed together so its a daily ritual for me to scan the crab holding system for baby turbos and move them to the other tank.

 

I snapped two pics tonight:

 





 

 

To be perfectly honest, i don't even know what turbo snail eggs look like.   I'm almost to the point of just letting it happen naturally as it has been.

 

If anyone here is currently breeding turbo snails, please point me in the direction of some information or share your processes.

 

Mahalo,

Kevin

 
Rook
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Monday, December 27, 2010 7:50 AM
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Nice pictures Kevin.  There have been a few write ups of breeding trochus and nassarius snails.  Absent anyone with direct experience I'd try to follow the procedures for the other snails.
Rook
cmpenney
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Monday, December 27, 2010 8:48 AM
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It seems that we have found that with many of the snail species that have either direct development or very short veliger stages that the only real trick to breeding them is providing an enviroment as free from predators as possible. Which you seem to have done, save for the hermits.
 
 
Chad Penney - MBI Council
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mPedersen
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Monday, December 27, 2010 9:37 AM
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I'm all excited I won one of those $30 gift certs @ Uberfrags..guess what I'll be having you send me
Aloha Corals
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:11 PM
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Alright, after speaking with Tal via FB i've decided to revisit this thread.  As mentioned before i'm a little green at this.  Early i also mentioned i don't even know what the eggs look like.  Well, i had a hunch and thanks to Tal i decided to take some pics which by accident confirmed what i thought to be eggs.
 
I grow my zoanthids and palythoas out on terracotta plates.  Underneath the plates is where the magic happens.   Here are some pics:
 
Plates (Sorry the zoas are closed...  i just flipped them over to take pics)
 

 
First late flipped:
 

 

You can actually see a baby turbo snail emerging from a deflated bubble down in the bottom right of the photograph.

 
Another plate, Egg Bubbles just starting.

Close up

 
Another plate.
 

 
Kevin
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:19 PM
http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."
THEJRC
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:30 PM
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would love to see development shots of the eggs which would tell a lot, as well as a pic of the underside of the shell so I can see the aperture for positive ID.  I'm fairly certain here though the the identification is correct.  Based on what I can see of the apical whorl it is benthic development so I think your right on there.  This will be a fun one for the snail geeks...  (wait... I think I'm the only one lol)
 
when you get time if you can get me a close up of the tip of the shell (apical whorl) and the bottom of the shell (aperture) so I can run it through the keys and of course satisfy my own indulgence into taxon... but I do at this point beleive this to be a positive ID as the sandwicensis and for it to be a direct development (pelagic) larval snail.  would love to later play with the species
Pelagically yours,
~J      
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:52 PM
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We could probably buy a bunch from him and have them shipped in time for the workshop.
Chad Penney - MBI Council
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:54 PM
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lol you dont tease....
 
reality is if I can make the workshop I'll probably be bringing some livestock as well, might be worth me buying early and figuring out the stages.  Dunno.  Depends on if my wife will tolerate the "but honey it's another pelagic *numnum*" remark anymore... I need another scientific term...
Pelagically yours,
~J      
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:57 PM
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Quote Originally Posted by THEJRC


would love to see development shots of the eggs which would tell a lot, as well as a pic of the underside of the shell so I can see the aperture for positive ID.  I'm fairly certain here though the the identification is correct.  Based on what I can see of the apical whorl it is benthic development so I think your right on there.  This will be a fun one for the snail geeks...  (wait... I think I'm the only one lol)

when you get time if you can get me a close up of the tip of the shell (apical whorl) and the bottom of the shell (aperture) so I can run it through the keys and of course satisfy my own indulgence into taxon... but I do at this point beleive this to be a positive ID as the sandwicensis and for it to be a direct development (pelagic) larval snail.  would love to later play with the species


 

I'm sorry, but the terminology is above me...   so i just took a bunch of pics in hopes that i get what you need.  lol

 

I randomly grabbed two from the tank.  A mid sized and a large.

 



 



 



 



 

Larger one

 



 



 



 



 

Kevin
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:07 AM
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Beautiful photos.  Thanks for sharing.
THEJRC
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Thursday, January 13, 2011 9:28 AM
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[This post was marked as helpful]
very very excellent shots!!  you got exactly the detail I was looking for!!  For reference the apical whorl is the first whorl or developed section of the shell, rather the tip of the cone if you will.  I was looking to see it's size and shape as a large smooth whorl is typical of direct development (in the egg capsule) and a smaller more rough whorl is typical of pelagic or planktonic development.  Not all snails develop identifiable apical whorls though (most whelks do not) so it's not always a true test.  In these specimens you can see how smooth and near perfect the first few whorls are of the shell, indicating that it is most likely a direct development species.  The large egg capsules also tend to swing towards direct development.
 
The next peice I was looking for was a picture of the shell aperture, or rather the opening of the shell.  A lot of taxonomy of the species can be derived from comparing the shape and structure of this!  In this case I was looking for the rough toothed edge for my positive identification. 
 
I was looking at other peices as well that may or may not interest anyone out there, the Umbilicus which can be thought of as the center "hole" that the shell coils around.  This is very well illustrated in the last two shots.  Depending on the size / shape of this hole we can make some educated guesses about the development of the Columella... lol another term... the columella is the center of the shell it reaches from the apex (top) to the mouth at the bottom, think of it as the center column of the shell.  Another very nifty tool for identification (though identification based on the columella typically requires destruction of the specimen.)
 
In any case, hope that entices someone out there to get into snail watching lol... excellent pics!
 
 
Pelagically yours,
~J      
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:38 PM
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That is great... I had "silky tegula snails" from Reeftopia grant me a few offspring, but they had a tendency to crawl into the powerhead feeding the skimmers. Never impressive numbers either. Probably worth another try since they do not get large enough to plow frags over and don't drag sand across the acrylic like my "ninja star snails" did.
How large are your biggest snails?
Congratulations, and great photos too!
Kate 
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:54 PM
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Fabulous pictures.  I assume you are feeding something in this tank, either leftover from feeding fish, or direct feedings to the tank? 
 
 
Are those skeet "plates"? 
Rook
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Thursday, January 13, 2011 1:49 PM
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Quote Originally Posted by THEJRC


very very excellent shots!!  you got exactly the detail I was looking for!!  For reference the apical whorl is the first whorl or developed section of the shell, rather the tip of the cone if you will.  I was looking to see it's size and shape as a large smooth whorl is typical of direct development (in the egg capsule) and a smaller more rough whorl is typical of pelagic or planktonic development.  Not all snails develop identifiable apical whorls though (most whelks do not) so it's not always a true test.  In these specimens you can see how smooth and near perfect the first few whorls are of the shell, indicating that it is most likely a direct development species.  The large egg capsules also tend to swing towards direct development.

The next peice I was looking for was a picture of the shell aperture, or rather the opening of the shell.  A lot of taxonomy of the species can be derived from comparing the shape and structure of this!  In this case I was looking for the rough toothed edge for my positive identification. 

I was looking at other peices as well that may or may not interest anyone out there, the Umbilicus which can be thought of as the center "hole" that the shell coils around.  This is very well illustrated in the last two shots.  Depending on the size / shape of this hole we can make some educated guesses about the development of the Columella... lol another term... the columella is the center of the shell it reaches from the apex (top) to the mouth at the bottom, think of it as the center column of the shell.  Another very nifty tool for identification (though identification based on the columella typically requires destruction of the specimen.)

In any case, hope that entices someone out there to get into snail watching lol... excellent pics!




Thank you very much for the lesson...   I learned something today.  That is always a good thing.  Mahalo!    It's funny, i took a picture of the columella only because i thought it was cool.  lol

 

Quote Originally Posted by Electrokate


That is great... I had "silky tegula snails" from Reeftopia grant me a few offspring, but they had a tendency to crawl into the powerhead feeding the skimmers. Never impressive numbers either. Probably worth another try since they do not get large enough to plow frags over and don't drag sand across the acrylic like my "ninja star snails" did.
How large are your biggest snails?
Congratulations, and great photos too!
Kate 


These things are notorious for knocking over frags in my tank.   I just picked up a few 40g breeders and some 20g longs during the Petco special.  I'm going to try to replicate my frag tank in one of those to see if i can purposely get them to breed.

 

Here is a pic of the largest.  The one on the left i have had for a few years.   It was about a 1/4" in size when i collected it.   I had a picture of this one spawning a couple years back but i can't find it for the life of me.

 



 

Kevin
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Thursday, January 13, 2011 1:51 PM
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Quote Originally Posted by Rook


Fabulous pictures.  I assume you are feeding something in this tank, either leftover from feeding fish, or direct feedings to the tank? 


Are those skeet "plates"? 


 

I only feed the fish in the tank.  I do not feed my zoas and palys.  It seems to be enough for the snails.  With NSW changes i have been able to keep the calcium levels in check.   I do not dose anything in the tank.

 

They look like skeet plates.  lol  I got them at home depot for pennies...

 

http://www.homedepot.com/...51&catalogId=10053
Umm_fish?
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Friday, January 14, 2011 8:49 AM
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I'm not an expert on snails by any means, but are those the same species? The older turbo close up has large areas of smooth whorls with only occasional bumpies.
 
The larger turbos on the plates and the small one in the close ups has whorls that are very broken up with small spikes.
 
Like I say, I'm not an expert. But it looks to me like you have two things going there.

 

Those are enormous freaking egg casings, by the way.
--Andy, the bucket man.
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Friday, January 14, 2011 12:19 PM
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Which picture are you referring to?  the last one?
 
Kevin
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Friday, January 14, 2011 12:23 PM
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No, check these out. Compare the crosshatching on the adult here:
 

 
With the crosshatching on the juvie here:
 

 
Same, right?
 
But then compare to this guy:
 

 
Some crosshatching, but mainly smooth.
 
--Andy, the bucket man.
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Friday, January 14, 2011 12:32 PM
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I couldn't tell ya...  I'm not a snail expert by any means either.   The second one in the picture is wild caught and was not born in my tanks.
 
This could be totally out in left field, but in the wild (and in my display tank) these snails are in, out, over, and under live rock all day.  (Think sea glass smoothing over time)  The one in the first pic was born and raised in my tank.  There is no live rock or sand at all in my tank.  Tank is a poly plastic as well as the frag rack.
 
Again,  i'm not an expert...  That's why i post here so you guys can help.   Also, are you suggesting i am possible breeding a hybrid turbo snail?  That would be kinda cool. 
 
I have never imported any snails into Hawaii.  It is actually against the law.   The only 3 turbo type snails i know of in Hawaii are the:
 
Turbo argyrostomus sandwicensis (endemic)
Collonista verruca verruca
Leptothyra rubricincta
 
Since the last is red, its possibile that one of them is the Collonista verruca verruca, but from what i see every day compared to this site: 
 
http://www.marinelifephot...turbo-sandwicensis.htm
 
I was comfortable with my educated (not much by the way) guess...
 
Kevin
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Friday, January 14, 2011 10:39 PM
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Well, that last one's certainly been around the block a couple times (with encrusting organisms like the worm on the shell), so I suppose it's possible that the crosshatching wears over time and that one is just older. I'm certainly interested to hear more about them. Heck, I'd love to give them a try. The turbos from the RSF never took off for me, so I'm still looking for some that I can breed.
--Andy, the bucket man.
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Saturday, January 15, 2011 10:49 PM
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Andy,
 
It's definately not uncommon for the ridges and features of a snails whorls to wear thin (in fact it's what makes the apical whorl look different on pelagic vs. benthic species).  I've actually noticed this with many of the nassarius over time.  Aside from general wear, I also assume it may have something to do with calcium levels throughout the snails life and shell development.  Just a point to make you go "hrmmm"  looking at what I can see of the aperture and the rest of the whorl development they all look to be the same species.
Pelagically yours,
~J      
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Tuesday, January 18, 2011 3:46 PM
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We need to get some of these to Colorado....I'd love to try them out.
DIBS Turbos never took off for me either but these guys have ginormous egg casings.  They'd be easier for me to track LOL
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Tuesday, January 18, 2011 3:52 PM
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At the very least we are plannnig to have some for the MBI Workshop in July. If you aren't coming then I'm sure someone can bring some back.
 
Chad Penney - MBI Council
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Tuesday, January 18, 2011 4:00 PM
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Cool...I'll have to see if Joe's going.
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Tuesday, January 18, 2011 5:10 PM
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Quote Originally Posted by
DIBS Turbos never took off for me either but these guys have ginormous egg casings.  They'd be easier for me to track LOL

 
Heck, you might be able to see those, Gale.
--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Wednesday, January 19, 2011 8:34 AM
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Quote Originally Posted by Umm_fish?


Quote Originally Posted by
DIBS Turbos never took off for me either but these guys have ginormous egg casings.  They'd be easier for me to track LOL


Heck, you might be able to see those, Gale.


ROFL....that's a fact!
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Re:Anybody Breeding Turbo Snails? - Wednesday, January 19, 2011 8:21 PM
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Just a reminder that tonight is a full moon. I'm going to do a water change shortly and hope for the best!