Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion Ocellaris]

What suggests that your clowns are Percularis?

Well. . . the coloration? I guess. They are light on the lower half, and darker on the upper half... and it is just odd, as I am not coming across any of similar coloration, to where the colors blend like that... I will try to post better pics... maybe more eyes will give a definitive answer. Some are saying the darker colors are representative of wild caught- which I ended up finding out the store I originally got them from can't tell for sure, as back then they were purchasing/selling both wild caught and tank raised... so they were just labeled as "common ocellaris"- but to me they look like a mix... with maybe some onyx thrown in? as they are darker along the top portion. I am not familiar with all types of clowns (yet, lol) so I am only going by what I have seen in photos/videos... Aren't the percs usually darker than the o's?

Michelle  
 

Michelle  
 

Michelle  
 

arrghhh lol not understanding why my icons don't work right.. anyway- that is the link to my youtube
 

Michelle  
 

Michelle  
 

Tried doing the Public chat again here at work.... to see if maybe it was my computer at home, maybe a firewall issue or something preventing me from using the chat? But still nothing happens... any ideas of how to get signed up or approved to use it? Is it maybe that I don't have enough points under my belt yet? Thanks guys - have a great day!
(picking these guys up tonight) along with Rod's food as they have apparently been eating it like crazy (also grabbed cyclopeeze )
 
My breeder pair is doing well - so far so good Eggs have thinned from what they were originally - but I will be very pleased with whatever wants to make it into the world
I split my rotifers this morning... having some in several different containers, as well as a few bottles in the cooler as indicated... also have some as a backup being shipped

Michelle  
 

The chat works over the same protocols as the rest of the website so I doubt that is the issue. What browser are you using? That may play a role but other than that as long as you are logged in you should have full access to the chat. We don't do any of that point or post based stuff to get access to things here.. All Breeders are created equal!

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Ok cool..... so then I will check my browser... odd but will work on getting it corrected on this end...in the meantime, lol... thank you again guys for fixing my videos
 
Well... right now I am acclimating my picassos, taking some extra time. In the video above u can see how well they have been getting along... they must not have liked the ride home in the bag. They are in a container, and circling / darting each other- like fighting, then they stop- then again... just a 'tiny' bit worried they may over exert themselves...I am placing them into the 20L for tonight, and will most likely swap them and the broodpair, putting the babies in the biocube, and the pair in the 20L.. which is next to the larval tank, rots and phyto... that will take some switching...so not happening tonight. I brought ghome some Rod's as that is what the babies were being fed at the store.  Hoping for the best with these little guys Pray for me
 
The brood pair look good, healthy, eating as usual. The eggs have thinned as mentioned before, but still a decent amount to practice with So again am hopeful with this as well.

Michelle  
 

Don't worry. The little ones will spaz out a bit in the bag, it's normal. Acclimate them like normal and you should be fine. 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Thanks- was getting abit concerned, as they bonded so well in the LFS! Literally the little guy made his way over to the other and hasn't left each other's side since I put my deposit down So I was SO happy, thinking bonding would come much quicker...then the little spaz spat ,lol
 
Ok- adding them to the tank in abit... making sure everything is done with abit of extra time, as the LFS told me they are 'more sensitive' then regular ocellaris -?true or false on this one...not sure.
Anyway- acclimated for about 2 hours... slow drip - the tank is good to go... I have 2 small live rocks with some xenia, and a pvc cup (thought I had a pot, but no terra cotta to be fiound when I got home, darn!) will get one tomorrow... and a couple sprigs of macro... just a starter tank- will change it up once I move them to the biocube... I am looking for an anemone for them..

Michelle  
 

 

(? still playing around as spent more time playing with fish/tanks last night than working on the browser issue, sorry....so hopefully the video above is there,lol)

 

Today is Day 8-Post Spawn of my Ocellaris Pair. I have actually been looking more into what B. Fenner mentioned...and in Martin Moe's book, the pics of the wild Ocellaris and Wild Perc...meshed together do seem like they would resemble my pair...... so........to be called Percularis from this point? Anyway.....they are doing well.. gave them a bit of the Rod's food last night also... female gobbled everything up right away..male has not.

 

I am eagerly awaiting my eggs to hatch...and looking forward to using the rotifers I have been storing...

 

(side note on the otohime.....for the baby picassos.......which bag size would you guys recommend,as still small-about an inch in size... Bag A and B seem small for them.....but what size food grain to offer to these lil ones? They did not eat alot last night, as they were fiesty coming out of the bag ride... got up a couple of times throughout the night to check on them, (yeah...lol...I do that ) and this morning they are both swimming around when I turned on the kitchen light. So, stick with just the Rod's food?

 

 

Michelle  
 

(lol....don't look at my thumb, slammed it into a drawer, and can't get rid of the stupid bruise,haha)
 
Thinking -for some reason- that the one with the WIDER white pattern will end up being a female... does that one seem just a smidge bigger in size to you?

Michelle  
 

May I suggest that you split this discussion as you're talking about two different pair of fish here?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

(sorry- I will not post about the picassos in this thread again, my bad - just kind of threw them in the mix, wasn't sure I was allowed to post a separate journal on them as they aren't breeding (yet), just got caught up in the excitement of it all, lol   --  Point taken   and thanks
 
 

Michelle  
 

No problem at all, it was just starting to get confusing. You can start a journal for any pair and you can always post general breeding questions in the general breeding forum.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

It's not a problem at all to start a journal on them. In fact we think it's a good idea to start a journal even when you are in the planning stages or just got a pair. It helps to give readers later on a better idea of eveything that you did.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Ok- will do - thanks guys

Michelle  
 

Ok everyone- trying to keep this updated... so , lol, have not gone to bed yet, I am DEAD tired... so you will just have to excuse any typos- as the screen is a blur by now, lol.
 
Turned lights OFF around 11:30pm...... finally done hatching around 1:15am.
The eggs had been dwindling down over the past week.. odd... but as mentioned earlier, can either be stress on the parents, or the eggs weren't viable, or it is just weird, lol.
 
SO- as of tonight, er.. um.. as of this MORNING, lol - I have only a small group of 21 + 1 stragler, seems though he is hurt as is just acting weird.
 
So- added some brood stock tank water to the new tank. I then added numerous rotifers, and about 2 shot glasses of phytoplankton,. turned the bubbler on, the heater on, and let it run til all the eggs were hatched.
 
I then topped it off with another dose of rotifers...just to be on the safe side. I covered the top, about 4 inches above the tank where the shelf is I put a piece of black paper..as someone mentioned they are attracted to the light.
 
WISH ME LUCK and SUCCESS Guys!
Please walk me through something you read that I am doing wrong
 
Ok- too tired, gotta go, have a great night!

Michelle  
 

Got up this morning,and gave another feeding of rotifers.

The larvae are darting to and fro.

 

Here is a shot from last night's count:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/wa...u_in_order&list=UL[/video]

Michelle  
 

22 is great for the first nest!  I only managed 4.  Looking good so far in a nice video.  Don't get too caught up in the babies... Momma should be laying again soon. 

So far so good Looks like the numbers have not gone down from hatch night -
I will take photos at night, to update the process..... but I am not sure I will be able to get as good of a shot as most of you get Some of your shots are spectacular!
 
Ok, So today is Day 1 Post Hatch
I am doing regular intervals of rotifers... adding just abit of phyto each time. I am not overfeeding - but thinking if I keep the tank 'stocked' so to speak, then all should have enough to eat without having to search out the food, and keeping an eye on my corners and the sides of the tank as Tal's site suggests, to make sure the larvae aren't congregating in those areas. So far they are staying within the center of the tank
 
 

Michelle  
 

{ok so another side question from what B.Fenner mentioned :}
 
Since my clowns may be {percularis} for the sake of discussion - and it takes 10 days from spawn to hatch..... I am thinking what I should be changing in my aquaculturing techniques.. I am following alot of what others have done- with success on their end.... and sometimes I run into dead ends.
 
He suggests mimicking water conditions as close to sea strength as possible... if I do this... when would I need to gradually decrease to aquarium strength to raise the babies? IF creating an environment (much like the ocean) helps in getting the eggs hatched, getting the larvae through meta and transitioning into little fish-all successfully.... how far would you think I could let them be until I then have to decrease to tank parameters? (If/when I DO get to the point..in the future.. I will need to sell / trade these little treasures.... and I wouldn't want to keep them in a setup that the common hobbyist can't simulate......... thoughts on this?
 
 What is considered sea strength? I am finding online 1.022-1.029... and a pH of 8.0-8.3....

Michelle  
 

Are you talking about salinity? I run all my breeding systems ~1.020 for a few reasons. Saves money on salt, fish don't seem to care about salinity as much as corals do and disease, and pests, don't do as well at lower salinities. 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Yes, salinity. Thanks
 
1.026 is what I run my reef at.......so I have been keeping the brood tank at the same, as I was planning on adding coral to it.
 
Dropping the brood stock down to 1.020, and maintaining that for the larvae is do-able.
Maybe I am running it too high and that is why I am having issues with the eggs?

Michelle  
 

Added a few drops of Prime to larval tank, just to be safe

Michelle  
 

{in reply to Ignatz' post..wanted to post here as well:}
 
Great update Congrats on no more losses
 
I will be adding the live rock as well... in probably the same time frame you tried...as I am finding the olive /very light green coloration on my alert badge as well.
 
Question to all: what about the chaeto as mentioned? How long do you need to wait to place this in the tank? Would it be better to add to a larval tank, for them to find cover in, and help fight the ammonia at the same time?
 
Following for tips and good reading- Have a great weekend!

Michelle  
 

Hi Michelle!  Sounds like you're doing great.  After watching your videos, I think I'm going to have to try make some myself.  Keep 'em coming.
  AFAIK, Full strength sea water is 32ppt or ~1.0245 and 25ppt is  ~1.020 is called 2/3 strength sea water.  I like to use 32ppt because I read somewhere (missing reference) that the higher salinity neutralizes nitrite.  Wilkerson suggests that by lowering the salinity, fish use less of their available resources for osmoregulation and have more to dedicate to growth.  I think you could go either way and find success.
  WRT chaeto - Wilkerson mentions using it in her book.  I think that if you use it, you'll have to pick it up from time to time and give it a good shake to remove the trapped food particles but otherwise it should work fine.  I wouldn't use it until after meta when you're not keeping the greenwater quite so green.

As long as your salinity is within .07 (so from 1.026 to 1.019) there shouldn't be much of an issue with acclimation between the level of salt.  Past the .07 mark you start having shock issues. 
 
Good luck and keep plugging along!

Update: Day #2 Post Hatch--- still doing well as far as I can tell.
 
Doing things abit different than last time. I went out and bought black construction paper prior to eggs hatching, that has been taped along all 4 side walls of tank, (last time I think I may have had too much light coming in) - also, I am just keeping light room light from the window, nothing too strong, I turn on the overhead strip when I am feeding, and I turn off the bubbler for about 15+ minutes, to allow then time to feed. Then lights off again, in doing this I am hoping the rotifers 'in' the tank will multiply. Good assumption, or am I off?
 
With each feeding, I am also dosing fresh water, phyto, and prime.
 
I am maintaining a slight greenish tint on my ammonia badge. So, in mixing the prime with the topoff/changes I am getting it back to yellow here and there.
NOTE: last batch I did not have a badge- so this is def something I will make sure to have in supply for ALL nests coming.
 
Ignatz: if you do a video- definitely hit me up! I would like to see it
On youtube I am of course volitans2007...or my work email : michelleact1@aol.com or of course here I would love to see other videos...helps to know what something is or what steps to take if you are actually seeing it. I love some of the videos everyone has posted on youtube- very helpful And encouraging when you see the successes.
 
Ok- busy day today- have moved 3 different tanks, swapped them out, and ran out to get more water... going to be sure to set up my 'grow out' tank in HOPES that I will soon have 'something to grow out' hahaha   I am getting some extra live rock  to be placed temporarily in the parents tank, until needed to move to growout...thinking it will absorb some of the nutrients/etc from the brood tank.
 
Also, I am getting some macro algae, to add to the juvenile tank- to help keep ammonia, nitrates etc down.
 
Will post a pic of the day this is pic worthy lol
 
Keep following- taking your tips into consideration and applying them as needed
Thank you everyone

Michelle  
 

My clown rearing tanks are painted black, on 3 sides and the bottom. The front is left clear but covered with a piece of corrugated plastic painted black. Black paper or garbage bags just seemed too much of a pain or messy.

 

I leave the front covered for the first 2 weeks then I remove the plastic so I can view from the front.

 

I light the larval tanks with a PC bulb with a reflector for 14hrs per day. Sometimes I light 2 tanks with 1 bulb placed between them. Clowns are visual feeders so they nee enough light to be able to see their food. 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Congratulations!

http://www.suzysreef.com/

Thanks Suzy- Your site is cool
 
Tal- what type of paint? Is a sponge on paint better than a paint on / spray on? Of course let it air dry for period of time... but is there a diff in the actual paint used?
 
Also - 14hrs of light / day? I thought the reason for keeping them in a dim lit tank was to prevent them from exerting too much energy? And the light reflected may hurt their sensitive eyes...
Please comment on this and correct me -
 
(side note: Thanks to Tal for pushing the Otohime the other fish L*O*V*E it )

Michelle  
 

I just use cheap black spray paint on the outside of the tanks. Dries fast and can easily be scraped off if needed.

 

They are on the same lighting cycle as the rest of the room (except the fridmani larvae that get 24/7 lighting until meta). I've had no issues with lighting. 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Ok- so maybe the losses I have had were due to not getting enough light in the past?
I will increase this time period.
 

Michelle  
 

Michelle  
 

Ok - so in trying to count what I could this morning- it appears that I may have had a few losses over the night, although I will have to wait until I get home from work to see exactly how many it is ,
 
I am thinking of introducing the bbs this evening, in addition to the rotifers, - today is Day 3, I am fearing that I may not have enough rotifers to last until I can wean them off fully. As this seems to be my greatest fear of raising the baby fish- the rotifer supply - I always feel as though I may not have enough. I will be careful though, and not over feed the bbs, so as not to risk water quality...but they have been eating so strongly- (it seems) - that I am hoping they will readily take to it.
Will keep you posted
 

Michelle  
 

Michelle, If you are using the greenwater technique your water is way too clear. I can't tell how deep the water is in the tank but when I add my RotiGreen I am unable to see the bottom of the tank. If the water is not green the phyto isn't feeding the rotifers (well, it did feed the rots but they consumed it all), nor is it providing the limited sight distance that the technique is used for. JMHO 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Tal-
* I am slowly running out of phyto as I had ordered some more, but it has been delayed thru shipping... haven't gotten any response to a local call for phyto.... so have been stretching it out..
 
* I thought I made the mistake last time, (in my previous videos) of making the water too dark... so I was trying to go for something inbetween...I make it a light lime green color, but of course I will add more, as I don't want to hinder the feeding.
 
I am waiting for the next video to upload to youtube.... (takes longer when you add music, so I have been stopping that on the last 2, lol) but they are still feeding / swimming/darting to and fro
 
I added an itty bitty bit of bbs... just a tiny bit, to introduce it.
I gave a good feeding of rotifers when I came home from work, and had my son add some while he was home from school - in trying to keep up with the several feedings throughout the day.
 
I have next on my list to get the Rotigreen as you have suggested......I just have not as I had some nice phyto I was using, unfortunately (my calculation) I did not take into account how much I would go through between the larval tank, the rotifer buckets/jars...I miscounted, under counted the amount I would need. So in the future - I will be sure to have plenty on hand.

Michelle  
 

That's the trick with using live phyto... having enough on hand at all times. Kind of a pain especially if you're using it for rotifers and greenwater. Trust me, RotiGrow and Green makes life a lot easier.

 

Getting the proper density of green is more of an art than a science, at least for me. Do what works best for you.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."