Breeding Journal, Species: [Amphiprion Percula]

General
Species:  Amphprion Percula (?) Picasso Clown
Social Structure:  Sheltered- just the two  together - nothing else

Size of Individuals:  1 inch,maybe less when purchased 
Age of Individuals:  About 4 months
Date added to Tank:  1/18/2011

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank:  20L
Substrate Details:  bare bottom
Filtration Details:  triangle foam filter/bubbler
Water Changes:  vaccuming bottom and planning on how I will do the water changes - just 1 day into having them
Water Temperature:  78
Lighting:  sunlight & ambient from window/room for now
Lighting Cycle:  sunlight during day- light on at evening, phyto glow lite during nite
Other Tank Inhabitants:  nothing yet

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types:  Rod's, Cyclop-eez, Otohime, Flake, Pellet (mixed with the Oto), Reef Caviar 
Feeding Schedule: morning, afternoon, and evening 

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn:  0
Spawn Time of Day:  0
Dates of Consecutive Spawns:  0
Courtship Details:  pairing up, then splits
Egg Size:  0
Egg Color:  0
Egg Count:  0

Hatch Details
Hatch Date:  0
Hatch Time of Day:  0
# Days after Spawn: 0
Larvae Description:  0


Larval Tank Details
Temperature:  0
Size of Larval Tank:  0
Substrate Details:  0
Other Tank Decor:  0
Filtration Details:  0
Lighting:  0
Lighting Cycle:  0
Water Changes:  0

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types:  0
Feeding Schedule:  0

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start:  0
Days after Hatch:  0
Date of Settlement End: 0
Description of Fry:  0

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature:  0
Size of Grow-Out Tank: 0
Substrate Details:  0
Other Tank Decor:  0
Filtration Details:  0
Lighting:  0
Lighting Cycle:  0
Water Changes:  0
Size at Transfer:  0
Age at Transfer:  0

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types:  0
Feeding Schedule:  0

Additional Information
Miscellaneous Information(NO PHOTOS OR VIDEO): 



You will be required to provide photographic or video evidence in this thread of each event submitted for the MBI Program.
If your thread does not contain these photos the MBI Committee will not be able to approve your reports. PHOTOS AND VIDEO S MUST BE PLACED IN ADDITIONAL POSTS, NEVER IN THE FIRST POST IN A JOURNAL.

Michelle  
 

This thread is being created to (1) minimize my overloading of my actual breeding journal...

                                                 (2) to request any helpful tips from those who have picassos...

 

I have added the babies in a 20L as of 1/18/2011.

So far they are doing well... there is just the triangle foam filter, heater, couple of xenia pieces, ammonia badge, thermometer, a mini pvc cap, and a measure container, (as they seem to like this).

 

I am wanting to transfer the brood pair into the 20L and put the picasso pair into the biocube, ...so will most likely do that over the weekend, or next week. Giving the babies time to get comfortable. (And waiting out for the brood pair's eggs to hatch.)

 

I am also wanting to get an anemone....what are the suggestions for picassos? I was thinking either a rose or green BTA<?>

 

I am still getting the hang of the journals- as I tend to add too much info here and there..so will try to reign it in, lol, but PLEASE feel free to offer helpful tips on raising these lovely clowns

Michelle  
 

Michelle I only have one thing to say.....There is no such thing as too much information.. Personally I'd love to see more conversation and more verbose journals here.
 

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Lol -
Ok - question #1 - FOR ALL BREEDERS out there, as I do not think this relates only to picassos....
 
This morning I got up, about 2:30am...checked on the babies, and they were laying odd.
1 was laying down on its' belly, while the other was laying slanted wedged near the bottom of the cup- they were not stuck, plenty of room, but is this a normal thing for picassos, or babies in general? Is it that they exerted too much energy during the day and are simply tired? Or is this how baby clowns sleep?
 
 My adult pair are constantly wiggling throughout the nite, I can see them at whatever time I look- but this was weird, I though something was wrong, but as soon as I turned the light on... they went about swimming all over the tank.... ?
 
Kind of scary being only a few days into having them, lol..... and have not had a successfull batch of larvae make it to the point of transitioning into a baby fish, lol.... so let's have the opinions guys, what would cause them to sleep like that?
 
(also ammonia badge is still @ -0-, no change to it... how to tell if it is working properly? Or if it is a 'dud'? )
 
Thanks!
 

Michelle  
 

That's normal. Clownfish "sleep" at night. It's not uncommon to see a tank full of juvenies all near the top or bottom as soon as the lights come on. Kinda freaky the first time you see it but it's normal.
 
I've noticed that my Picasso offspring tend to spend a lot more time near the bottom than other species, variants, that I work with.
 
BTW, the best time to catch a clown is as soon as the lights come on when they are a bit groggy.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Lol! Tal that is so funny you mention that,'cause that is what my female did this morning... I was nervous at first, but thought maybe she 'just didn't want to get out of bed' haha it took her a few moments to realize it was morning, get up and get feeding
 
But yeah, the baby pics stay more near the bottom, ok cool that this is a normal thing- now I feel abit better,
 
 

Michelle  
 

Question #2, : Feeding..
 
What is the proper amount to feed a baby? I only have 2, not a swarm of babies, lol... and I am caught between feeding enough not to cloud my water, but feel that I might be underfeeding.
 
They go for the Rod's... and the Cyclop-eeze, but.... how much is a good amount? Or if I split it up throughout the day.... I just don't want them to starve, and I am trying to feed in the same place each time so they know that is the spot to go to .......
 
I am thinking they may be like a bulldog, lol, in the way that if I keep feeding....lol...they will keep eating so I don't want to overfeed and cause them issues

Michelle  
 

(yeah me! lol.... I have a little fish near my avatar )

Michelle  
 

I feed 4 times per day. Only as much as they can eat in a minute or so. They would eat more if I fed them more often. I feed frozen foods with a wooden toothpick and a pinch of flake depending on how many fish I'm feeding.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

?Ok, you lost me.... where does the toothpick come into play?

Michelle  
 

I thaw the food in a little dish. When I'm ready to feed I dip the toothpick into the food and dip it into the tank. Think of it like a fork with a single tine. The food sticks to the toothpick and you can control how much you feed.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Nifty trick!

Indeed.... got it now, lol -very cool idea, no way to over feed that way
 

Michelle  
 

Maybe I should make a video?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Absolutely! I have been catching some of yours on youtube
- (22 hatchlings this evening! Woohoo - visit the other thread tomorrow )
 
'Nite
 

Michelle  
 

Moved the baby picassos into the biocube over the weekend... they are doing well. Giving them the otohime B2 and they love it!
 
Ammonia is down to YELLOW / Safe on the badge,
 
And they are sleeping in a little cup, lol...until I can find an anemone for them - but going out this evening and grabbing another terra cotta for thrm to use as a 'cave' .
 
Also - I am noticing more black as mentioned that it will start coming in

Michelle  
 

Baby Picassos seem to be doing well ( )
They are more comfortable when I am approaching the tank, and as I open the top for feeding, they readily head to the surface knowing that is where the food is coming from
 
More black lining is noticeable

Michelle  
 

Awesome, keep up the good work! Do you have any pics?

Strong work!

http://www.suzysreef.com/

Suzy- lol cool avatar....
 
What is the BEST anemone for picassos? I am leaning toward a RBTA or GBTA...any opinions?
 

Michelle  
 

Ok- so I have not been on this to update- sorry, busy with the babies, lol
 
The Picasso pair is doing well. I have been feeding them Rod's, brine, and Cyclop-eeze
 
They have become quite fond of a plastic cup I had placed in their tank for shelter until I was able to find an anemone I liked... have found one.. (visit the Frag Farmer if you haven't already- great guy, awesome stuff- and he is having a killer sale tonight 50% off items from the site:
http://thefragfarmer.com/green-with-pink-bubble-anemone-p-782.html 
So that is the anemone I purchased, it should be here this week.. then I will remove the plastic cup. As I do not like it there, but the babies like to play in and around it
 
I have kinda decided who is who already, lol. The one with the more black lining = male. The one with the wider white patches=female..haha but will have to wait and see what nature decides, lol- although the one I think is female is a tiny bit larger already.
 
I also purchased a couple of the St Thomas Blue Mushrooms from the above site- so it will be interesting to see which the babies go to first. The mushroom or the anemone.....
 
Will try to post a pic / video soon, and compare with the ones I took originally to show the color changes.
 

Michelle  
 

Ok- came home to something scary - there is something on one of the fins of the picassos?
Not quite sure what it is... looks like a tiny bump, growth? Has not been there. It is on the front part of the right fin.
 
The only new additions to the tank:
a BTA, 2 St Thomas blue shrooms - small (alone, no rock came with them), and an acan that I am (still) trying to find out which name (think it is a superman, but have not gotten any response back yet...(it was a freebie frag )
So those are the only new additions, still have no sand in tank as I have not decided which type I want to use.
 
One of the babies found the anemone the other morning, but has not been back to it (?) the anemone has moved a few times to get adjusted to the tank.
 
I will try to get a good photo- but I am abit worried in the meantime. Any thoughts anyone?

Michelle  
 

Definitely a picture would help.  It's always possible that a parasite came in on the corals, but not enough info yet to identify.

You are right- tried getting a good pic last night no luck.
 
Will take him out and put him in a different container to get a close up shot.
 
I hope it is not a parasite.
 
 

Michelle  
 

Have not been able to catch him yet (crap these lil guys are FAST!!!)
I am 2nd guessing tearing everything down, and trying to net him, but do not really want to stress him out, and REALLY do not want him jumping into the overflow (biocube, pain in the a$$ to get any thing back out of there)
 
Spoke with one of the LFS owners today- he says he is treating one of the remaining 2 picasso babies he has, with similar issue- but he says it is 'stress related fungus' (?) Coming from the two fighting/attacking each other (?)
 
Mine do go at it, then stop, cuddle, play, swim, then go at it again... so I am not separating them as I feel (correct me if I am wrong) they are just displaying dominance.
 
I will try to get another pic, and just post what I am able to take, maybe seeing it you will spot something right off the bat that I am unaware of.

Michelle  
 

[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/volitans2007#p/u/0/9l5UWWZvDyM[/video] 
Please comment on thoughts/treatment ......

Michelle  
 

Hi Michelle,
 
Hard to tell from the vid but try googling some images of Lymphocystis and see what you think.
 
See also http://www.masa.asn.au/masawiki/index.php/Lymphocystis
 
Nice looking clown
 
Chris

Thanks Chris
 
Curious after reading that article..... is there a difference in Beta Glucan (human use vs marine life use) ? This is what I have found locally:
http://www.getingethealthy.com/shop/product_view.asp?id=383524&StoreID=HQ0USHRK24S92ND700AKHLBD34SU9LUB&private_product=1 
Do I just open the capsule and add it to the food daily?
This describes my issue - "pin head size... pink (or peach) in color, usually on the skin or fins. The incubation period could be weeks or months" - for the LFS to tell me he is having the same issue, leads me to think the fish came in from the supplier with something... or it was in the new set up that he had bought from a fellow LFS going out of business... maybe there was something in the tank that he was unaware of, as (the supplier of the fish is very reputable).
 
So, curious to see if I can pick up a bottle of the beta today after work, and give that a shot. I REALLY don't like adding chemicals, and he mentioned he is treating his fish with something (cant remember the name) and that if I were to use the same chemical, I would need to isolate the fish away from the anemone and corals as "it will kill them" ... hence not wanting to use that.
 
Is there a special form of beta glucan that you (or anyone else) know of? Appreciate the article, feel more at ease now- thank you

Michelle  
 

 
Thank you The black lining is coming in very nicely

Michelle  
 

The reference is this Advanced Aquarist article:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/feature.htm
More info can be found
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic19619-10-1.aspx
Have never used beta glucan so can't comment much more.
I had a small spot similar to yours on a perc recently, cleared up fine after a month without treatment.
 
Chris
 
 

Yes that is what I had read....so hopefully it will clear up- will be sure to monitor water (although all parameters are in check) and add vitamins/essential elements etc....
 
I really appreciate the info thanks- was worried

Michelle  
 

I am so sad. And trying not to freak out.
 
But I am dealing with an issue, unfortunately cannot post a pic until I get home from work this evening.
 
I have tiny white nodules/cyst-like spots jabbing out of 1 of the baby picassos. It started soon after the original issue. But then went away (see above) They have since stopped fighting, have established 'togetherness' and have been that way since- no more fighting. The one is doing well, coloration- eating-looks great. The one with the issue is the one who seems to have it on and off- that is why I am leaning towards 'ich' as opposed to anything else. (someone mentioned brooklynella? but he eats and chases after brine shrimp- so I don't think it is brook)
 
I have been adding MelaFix to the biocube they are in. Since their addition- I have added some sand, an anemone, (which did not survive {was shipped from Miami}), some ricordeas, a hammer frag, a xenia frag, a new anemone and of course the blue shrooms that came with the anemone.
(all not added at same time- there were gaps in between)
 
But I think it is still stress-related? Having more things in the tank?
 
I have been told to use Ich-Attack, or a fresh water dip. But- how long for the fresh water dip? I do not want to cause any more issues than this one. I am still feeling something came over from the coral I had delivered.... or the fish came with it before arriving at the LFS since the owner had similar on his pair...... but PLEASE someone log on tonight and check out my photo. I will make sure to post something as close as I can get.
 
I am thinking of taking them out and placing them in a bare tank again- as they seem to have done better without the sand..... ? or am I just over-thinking that.
 
Ok- I know there will not be an answer now, as no pic available yet- but wanted to at least jump on with a post- everything else up to this has been great. I am very happy with their markings/color
 

Michelle  
 

A fresh water dip is going to be more stress on the fish and won't get rid of the ich.
 
If it was me, I'd go ahead and move the fish to a bare system and treat them with a copper based solution to get rid of the ich.  Then I'd leave the biocube fishless for 6-8 weeks to let the full ich life cycle run through.  Without a fish to host on, that's long enough for it to all die out.  Should be safe to move them back at that point.
 
Of course, that's assuming that it really is ich.
 
Edit: Also, forgot to mention, start adding fresh mashed garlic to the fish's diet.  Not garlic extract, but cloves of garlic that you mash up and add to the food.  It's a better boost to the fish's immune system than extract.

Thank you.
I will post a picture tonight. I am scrolling through Google here at work during my break and cannot find what looks like what I have. I know what ich looks like, however this is not like a light dusting of salt so to speak, it looks like bits of rice jutting out of the fish, if that makes sense?
 
I read a clipping of brooklynella - if that is what it is, it states it kills within 48 hrs, this has come and gone, so I HOPE that is not what I am looking at.
 
But I agree - I think I should place them in a bare tank, and run the biocube fishless. After we are able to make a more definite diagnosis, I will ask more q's--- like raising the temp in the fishless tank to speed up the cycle of the parasite? turn the lights off? etc.
Thank you for getting back to me

Michelle  
 

Just caught the garlic message- will grab some on the way home tonight

Michelle  
 

Regarding fresh garlic... I've found that it is best to slice and dice it with a sharp knife rather than mashing it. If you mash it you're going to loose quite a bit of the essential oils that you need. I mix this into all of the foods that I feed all of my fish.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Going back to what Chris had mentioned earlier, (I didn't think it was the same thing, as the other was a diff color/shape) but it may be the same thing, lymphocystis?
 
I found this online, and looks similar, the white bumps:
http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f184/big-raised-white-lumps-on-clownfish-130401.html
 
So I will continue with my plan of going home, posting a photo of my fish, and preparing to change them into a different tank, unless someone catches something I am not seeing, and can better direct me.
Thank you

Michelle  
 

Thanks Tal, will slice and dice rather than mash and smoosh lol!

Michelle  
 

Got that tip from a chef.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Ha! Well, so far you are considered one of the gurus I am following as far as breeding clowns, lol, So Chef....Guru.....all the same...... masters in different hats

Michelle