Breeding Journal, Species: Amphiprion percula (Picasso variant)

They look ready to go to me.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

I have been going 7-9 days. So tonight is likely the night.

Thank you. I'll pull them tonight (fingers crossed)

Before hatching I cleaned everything with hydrogen peroxide and I also dipped the eggs with Formalin MS (10grops per gallon) for about 6 minutes. I feel this helped with my potential fungus issue. Well, I looked in last night at midnight and it was a much better hatch rate. It seemed like 100% hatch rate. I went to sleep and checked on them about 9:15am. I'd say 75% are dead. They hatched and were scattered around the floor of the larva tank. Specific gravity and temp. matched the broadstock tank exactly. I had two air stones going at a low rate, one directly under the eggs and the other under the heater. I added rotigreen and rots to the tank to try to keep the 15-20 larva alive but I did leave in the dead ones. On second thought this will lead to polluted water and I will try to get them out. Overall, more success but still horrible survival rates.

Hmm. Not sure what's going on.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Brian,
the same thing happened to me the first time I tried to raise my ocellaris fry. I had 95% hatch rate and they all died seemed like instantly after hatching. They were all dead (but five) gathered around the rock from which the eggs were on. To this day I have no clue what happened. I took the water directly from the broodstock tank at the same time as the rock.
the water was a bit cloudy from all the detrius that was on the rock that became dislodged when tranfering.

Most larva that made it past the first night (about 15) made it to Day 2. I had 2 to make it to day 4. My next spawn happened today, about 4pm, and I plan on starting greenwater the night of the hatch. I also suspect poor water quality lead to the 15 or so dying off so fast. I plan on getting an ammonia alert badge to assist me to know when to do water changes. 

Well I forgot to update but no larva made it past day 4. I have researched and I believe broad stock nutrition is the root of my issues. I have increased feeding and diversity of foods for the past 5 days. My pair laid the next batch today and it seems a little bigger. I am just hoping to avoid mass losses during the first 48 hours. Fingers crossed........again.

Another complete loss. My wife had our second child on Monday morning(the night of the hatch). I ran home later in the day to get our camera and transferred the eggs quickly. I think I did everything correctly. The only thing I didn't do was a formalin dip. I set up rots and green water and left 500ml of top off water going at a slow drip. I came home on Wednesday hoping to have a tank full of larva. 100% death rate!! The larva concentration around the pot tells me that they didn't hatch or died extremely quick. Got to say I'm a bit disappointed. Here are some pictures but I don't know how much they will help. I only increased broad stock feedings for 5-6 days before they laid this clutch but I thought I would see some improvement, and definitely not a decline. I will continue to focus on broadstock nutrition but I need some help here. Not sure what's going on. Could my picasso/picasso pair be to closely related? They came from the same breeder and most likely have the same parents.
 

I'm new here, but wouldn't it be better to catch the larva after they hatch, instead of putting the eggs in a different container the night before? I've heard lots of people with the same problem doing the same thing.

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

Hey Brian,
 
Can you do me a favor and update the datasheet in the first post. Your Species name isn't correct. Pretty sure it should be "Amphiprion percula"

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

This is probably a stupid question but, You are letting the bubbles hit the eggs, right? In the pix the eggs are underneath the airstone, I assume that is just for showing the eggs...

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

The eggs are kept in the 12 o'clock position with air going directly over the eggs. The pictures show were the eggs fell off the pot and died. As you can see they either didn't hatch or died extremely soon after hatching. Looking at them, it seems the larva are still encased but it is hard to tell for me. Any suggestions? I am getting a bit discouraged. Thank guys and gals.

Ok, I figured that was the case. Just wanted to be sure. At this point I'm not sure what the problem is... possibly airflow is too high, or low.
 
I guess the next step would be to get some fresh eggs under a scope to make sure they are viable.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Can you help me determine viable eggs with my next batch? I had plans are observing a hatch in my display tank to help determine this but the use of a microscope would be much better. I wouldn't know what to look for at this point so would really appreciate your help.

Sure, I'll do whatever I can.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

What is a good post spawn day to observe them? I will let you know when they lay again. Thanks Tal, I appreciate it.

 
My guess would be too low. You want the flow over the eggs to be vigorous.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

I have tried different flow rates. I'll admit that this time was on the lower end of the flow rates I've tried. And my results were the worst. Good point!! I remember reading that too much is better than not enough. I will increase air flow to try and help. Does anybody have a link to their larva tank airflow? I will also search YouTube. Thanks.

They took awhile to lay their next batch but they did so today. I would like to take these over to Tal's to put them under the microscope to asses vitality. What day post hatch is best to do this? I hope to find a solution to my losses within the first 12-24 hours. I have a breeding rack set to go and it makes me sad to see it empty .
 

Thank you very much. For the past month or so I have been feeding mostly my frozen mix mentioned earlier. I have been feeding 2-3 times per day. I have increased the amount given each time until my clowns are "full" and won't eat any more. I will also try to feed up to 4 times daily because I did notice a larger clutch during the most resent spawn. Maybe it's just me, it looks weaker now that I took a picture
 

 
 

I actually came across your new feeding regimen a little while after I posted that. It definitely can't hurt anything. Looks like a nice bright orange and a decent size. Good luck!!

Any updates? How are things going?

Michelle  
 

I have a batch that are due to hatch in 3 days. The current clutch, which is pictured above, seems slightly larger than previous ones. I really hope to have more success this time. I started up my grow out rack. It is a bit overkill for only one breeding pair but it has room for me to "grow into" it.............lol. Currently it is (3) 29g tanks with a 50g sump including an ATB 840 skimmer. It should hold hundreds of clownfish once I start producing healthy larva. Nutrition of my broad stock has been my focus this past month. Although, I still only feed 2-3 times per day. The quantity and diversity has increased a ton. Before I would just throw in a few dozen pellets once a day and a frozen treat 3-4 times per week. Now it is 95% my frozen mix with a specific frozen treat the other 5%. I also feed until my clowns seem full and stop accepting food. I hope I have solved my problem and this time it will show with post meta picasso clownfish!!

The varied diet should help produce better results. Post pics of your system when you get time.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Michelle  
 

Well, it's 5:00pm on the day of my expected hatch night. I just saw the female picking the eggs off of the clay pot. I hurried up and pulled it but I'm wondering if this is a sign that the eggs are unviable? She isn't starving.........lol. So, I take this as a bad sign.

I guess all is not lost....yet (LOL). It's 10am on day #1 and I have about 40 larva alive. Not great numbers as I did notice some dead ones on the bottom. I'm estimating about 1/3 of the clutch where dead in close proximity to the pot. About a dozen were still attached to the pot with about 1/2 of them that turned white. I removed the pot and turned down the air stone under the heater and also removed the the air stone used for the pot. It's an improvement and I'll take it. Hopefully I can get them to last past day #4.

Nice, I hope this one goes better for you. Sounds like a promising start.

Thanks Tom, I have a nice correction to my above numbers. It looks like at least 51 larva!!! This is definitely an improvement. They are all in the upper 1/3 of the water column. I have my light directly overhead with all sides blacked out. Does this mean I should increase the roti-grow?

Woohoo! 51 larvae way to go It's fun when you find out you have more than originally counted, lol!

Michelle  
 

 
Very cool! You want to keep the water green enough so you can't quite see the bottom when you have 5 gallons in that tank. 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Thanks guys. Ya, I can't see the bottom but they are in the top of the water column. Also, I noticed a handful are pointing straight up. I remember hearing this means something but it is slipping my mind right now. I'm really excited so far and I need to stay out of my basement or else I'll be counting them all day. I just counted again and I got 56! You guys can have a good laugh at the newbie now.

In the water column is good. If they start hanging out by the sides that is a clue that you need to add more RotiGreen.
 
Just let them do their thing now.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Well, I went down to show my wife and they are all dead. I couldn't find any that are alive. It's like somebody came in and stole them all. So I went from 56 larva to zero within 50 minutes........needless to say I'm a bit bummed out.

Oh I am sorry to hear that! I know how you feel- I have gone through that too.
Better luck with your next batch - still following along

Michelle  
 

I'm at a loss here. Everything looked fine to me last night.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

As I stated in an earlier post, I removed the air stone and the clay pot. I also SLIGHTLY turned down the air stone under the heater because I noticed a few larva tumbling by it. With tank wide death happening so quickly, the only thing I can think of is low oxygen levels in the water. Do you think this could be the cause? How can I insure high O2 levels without adding turbulent water flow?
 
 
I'm trying not to be discouraged but I don't know what questions to ask. Improved broad stock nutrition seemed to help hatch rates so I'll continue doing that. I know I am using the word- hope- in every post but I'm trying to stay positive. I hope to do better next time.................Thanks for all the help!

Just definitely try to stay positive
 
I know I beat myself up trying to figure this all out, and everyone here has been so helpful (still are ) - I HATE to lose even one - lol
 
What about the ammonia level? Could something have been airborne that got into the tank (lysol mentioned a in previously read post)
 
What about a bacterial bloom? I had a complete wipeout...and this was the result of a bacterial bloom, unbeknownst to me at the time- I was checking them every hour on the hour, they were doing GREAT- then WHAM! they all died, at the same time, wipeout! no rhyme or reason.

Michelle