Breeding Journal, Species: Pterapogon kauderni

General
Species:  Pterapogon kauderni
Social Structure:  Pair
Size of Individuals:  2"
Age of Individuals:  roughly 3 years
Date added to Tank:  9 months

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank:  16
Substrate Details: crushed argonite 
Filtration Details:  central sump
Water Changes:  30% every 2-3 weeks.
Water Temperature:  82
Lighting:  florescent
Lighting Cycle:  12 hour
Other Tank Inhabitants:  none

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types:  rotating food Rod's fish blend, Spirulina brine, fish eggs, mysis, homemade food and occasional flake.
Feeding Schedule:  3 times a day.  Roughly 2-3 bite fulls per feeding.

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn:  11/1/2010
Spawn Time of Day:  generally just after lights out
Dates of Consecutive Spawns:  12/8/2010, 1/15/2011, 2/27/2011, 4/4/2011, 5/16/2011, 7/12/2011 , 8/10/2011, 9/28/2011
Courtship Details:  Generally 'quivering' or dancing for a few days prior to spawn
Egg Size:  n/a
Egg Color:  n/a
Egg Count:  n/a

Hatch Details
Hatch Date:  estimated 9/1/2011 (not confirmed visual...but jaw size increased substantially on this date)
Hatch Time of Day:  noticed in the morning of the 1st
# Days after Spawn:  18
Larvae Description:  mini fish


Larval Tank Details
Temperature:  78
Size of Larval Tank:  10g glass
Substrate Details:  bare bottom
Other Tank Decor:  one fake plant that is twig like
Filtration Details:  central sump, slow water change and hob that I used during the first week.
Lighting:  florescent (normall ambient..but for the first 7 days I am going to provide more direct light)
Lighting Cycle:  12/12
Water Changes:  continuous

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types:  frozen bbs, rotifers, shaved spirulina brine, shaved rods and live rotifers.
Feeding Schedule:  frozon roughly 6-10x a day in very small amounts.

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start:  9/5/2011
Days after Hatch:  6
Date of Settlement End:  9/7/2011
Description of Fry:  mini fish

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature:  78
Size of Grow-Out Tank:   10g glass
Substrate Details:  barebottom
Other Tank Decor:  fake plant
Filtration Details:  central sump
Lighting:  ambient
Lighting Cycle:  12/12
Water Changes:  continuous....30% from central system every 2-3 weeks
Size at Transfer: 
Age at Transfer: 

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types:  same as larvae...graduating to non-shaved around 4 weeks.
Feeding Schedule:  frequently as possible, 5-10x through 4 weeks, then slowly cutting back to 3-4

Additional Information
 
(No Pictures or Videos in the Section Please)
 
Settlement posted as release, as requested by Tal.
Miscellaneous Information: 
I01&I02


You will be required to provide photographic or video evidence in this thread of each event submitted for the MBI Program.
If your thread does not contain these photos the MBI Committee will not be able to approve your reports. PHOTOS AND VIDEO S MUST BE PLACED IN ADDITIONAL POSTS, NEVER IN THE FIRST POST IN A JOURNAL.

This father is pro at not showing me the eggs, although he usually is willing to show me the fry when they are close to release.
 

Well, I appear to have lost this batch.  This is the second time in a row I have had this pair not hold to term.  Considering these are the first two times I have not had this pair hold, I am looking into possible effects.  This pair was recently moved into this breeding setup, but has carried two batches to term since being moved. 
 
The only two factors that have changed are this pair got neighbors, a pair of PJs they can see, but they do not seem to pay much attention to them.  The other factor is the onset of summer and temps rising in the water.  The setup is in the basement, but due to humidity increase the dehumidifer is running in breeding area. 
 
I have noticed over the last several months the pair has become much more aggressive at feeding time (striking much harder/quicker at food).
 
So my possible issues I can see are
1) An effect that did not have an immediate impact from being moved.  Two parameters that are diff are salinity and temp (temp listed seperate here)
2) Temperature increase in tanks.  The water temp was 79 during their last several successful  cycles, both in the breeding setup and in their previous home (tank attached to my main reef).
3) PJs...despite there lack of attention to them, maybe has caused a behavioral change.  Aside from the more aggressive strikes, there are no noticable differences in behavior, before, or after fry transfer.  The aggression in strikes may be related to #2 due to increased matabolism from the temp increase.
 
So I am lowering the temp down..Bringing it to 78-79.  Down from it's current 82-83.

Well they spawned again tonight.
 
At this point I have visually seperated all of the cardinal pairs by adding black acrlic between the tanks.
 
I have also lowered the tank temperature down to 79-80.  Every once in awhile i gets over 80, but generally it is sitting below 80.
 
I have also raised the salinity slightly to 1.021

Do you have any pictures of the pair. Typically this is a requirement for reports that there is full documentation which includes shots of the brood stock.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

O I certainly can take pics of the full pairs.  'She' is just off the the right.  The male is always the target of my attention with Cards.

It just good information to have.. With Journals the more information that you can show the next person the more useful a tool it is for them.  If you plan to submit reports, which is where the real power of the MBI system lies, full documentation from broodstock to 60 days post settlement is required.
 

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Well, so far he is still holding.  His mouth does not look as large as it has with most of his successful batches, so at this point if he holds, I am not expecting a large batch.  We are near hatch and he is usually willing to show me the babies in his mouth, so I will be watching for opportunities to take some pictures.

Continual decrease in the size of his jaw line...he is still holding, but again I am not expecting much.  He is definately much calmer this time around than he has been the last few tried.   I would suspect related to the changes made, but which one, I cannot say. 
 
now on the side of concern, I noticed my female refusing to eat.  I saw her take two bites out of three attempts to feed her.  This is of concern to me as she is usually a horse and will eat anything she thinks might be food.  This is something I will be watching carefully as I had six young adults in this system that were wild caught and had been through QT for 6 weeks, become ill in there 7th week with me, and over several weeks..I lost all of them one at a time.  Each loss started with refusing to eat.  This event occured many months ago (I would have to look up exactly when..but in the spring).  If I start seeing reclusive behavior I will become very concerned and isolate and medicate the pair.

Female began eating again on the 2nd.  Not sure why she stopped eating, but she seems to be back to eating full force.
 
Hatch appears to have occured on 9/1, as the jaw become considerably larger on the male on the first. 
 
I moved him to the fry tank tonight using a clear specimin cup (kind used at LFS for holding water bags when catching fish).

Good luck! hopefully, he'll spit soon!

Well, I have one solo out and about on the 5th of Sept.  He is hiding in the plant and the father is still holding the rest of the batch.  I made a small effort to get him to spit the rest, but I know he will release them when he is ready.  My issue is I am leaving for 12-16 hours a time right now, and I don't really want to leave the father in there for that long after release if i can avoid it.
 
I may try a more concerted effort to get him to spit tomorrow.  The one that is out is plenty developed.

Can you partition off part of the tank so the babies can get away from him? Maybe egg crate?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

I think I am going to have to take your idea.  He spit out 9 more, but he looks like he is still holding and has zero interest in releasing.  I made him mad enough he should have spit them, but he wouldn't and he wont open up far enough for me to see for sure.
 
So as of the moment, we look like we are sitting on 10 plus what is in his mouth.
 
 

I appolgize for my terrible pictures, I just cant seem to get close shots with my lens.  As mentioned above, very small batch..counted 10, plus whatever he is holding onto.  The single one is one the father decided to let go of while I was trying to get him to release...so it is swimming down to the others.
 

 

 

 
 

Well he is still holding onto something, so hopefully he will have a few more left for me.  

well, I think we can call the egg crate a moderate success.  The male didnt release anymore, but I am missing one.  So my guess is one wondered onto the other side and became a snack.  He is eating now and back in the brood tank. 
 
now my other pair (that never holds) is holding again...curious if I should try agitating, but that is for the other pair's thread. =)

Still at 9, and they are all getting more curageous and heading further from the fake plant.
 
I have been using the hob filter during the day and off at night.  In addition to the frozen food feedings, I have been adding live L rotifers to help keep food in the water while I am away for so long.

I had a bit of a challenge getting them to take froze this time around...they were really wanting just the live rots.  The HOB I use with the banggai was the trick again.  When I turned it on, was the only time I could get them to strike frozen food.  Otherwise they would just look at it as it fell.
 
So far no deaths, although I am watching two carefully as they may have bad swim bladders.  Seem to spend alot more effort keeping stable than the others.  At this point I am giving them a rotifer feeding once every other day and feeding frozen foods several times a day.  Today was the first day they vigorously struck at the frozen food.

I am going to add a side note to this journal, unrelated to this spawning attempt, but information for those who might stumble across this journal.  I do my best to track my fish after they leave my hands.  I try to get as much info as I can from the LFS that sell them and, when possible, introduce myself to those who have taken some of my fish home.  Most have had great success with my fish and are very happy with them.  I had a recent discussion from one who purchased a large set of them from me.  He is a very experienced and capable reefer.  I feel confident in his overall husbandry.
 
He was experimenting with different foods with the batch he purchased, 12 if I recall correct.  The one thing he is comfortable with stating is he was feeding largely the new IO gel foods to a group of them.  He noticed lower development rate and a few deaths as a result.  The fish were kept in the same system, with different feeding regiments.  So that is a tid bit for those curious.

Fun note...today was the first day that the fry seem to associate me with food.  When I walked in, they would run to the side of the tank near me.  I left and peeked in, they all had dispersed.  When I came back, they all came running to the side of the tank again. 
 
Im finally the food giver =)   Obviously at this point, they are all gladly taking frozen.

All of the fish are now on the same eating schedule (2-4x a day) as the rest of the fish and eating the same foods.  One of the two that appeared to have a bladder problem is doing better, but is still not graceful in his positioning.  The other is still having a hard time and seeks out the corners of the tank.  The latter was the slowest of the fish to move to accepting the frozen foods, but seems to understand now that it is food.
 
The having a harder time swimming are smaller than the rest at this point.
 
 

Thought I had noted another spawn at 9/28/2011, but I guess I didn't.  In any event, he appears to be without eggs this morning.

Images of fry 30 days post release/settlement
 


 

Well, as mentioned I completely pulled them off of live food and shaved foods.  I had one just go missing, couldnt not go sump diving because there is a sponge around the overflow.  One was found dead today.  There were a few that were being picky about the frozen.  I have not had this type of problem with eating before, but I have never fed them live food either.
 
So we are down to 7.

Picture of pair

Just to update this thread, as I have not updated it in awhile.  These two are breeding like clock work at this point. 
 
Due to being out of town, I have not been able to do much with any fry being held, but I have been playing with different ways to allow the father to release while I am gone. 
 
I am confident my wife can rear the babies as this seems to be down to a very simply regiment at this point.
 
We will see how the seperating works.
 
The famile is hydrating today, so i am expecting to see him holding when I return home this next week. 

OK, I am excited!
 
Looking like I am back in town for awhile and I am rearranging tanks.
 
After the MBI conferences I wanted to re-explore the idea of water quality impacting holding rates on these guys.
 
So I am in the process of setting up a tank that is attached to my reef (roughly 350g) and then two tanks that are independant that are in the same room.  I will continue to maintain the system that these guys are currently in, but I will be moving as much stock out of it as possible.
 
Much if it will wind up in the reef system, where the water quality tends to stay pretty decent.  The focus will be on this pair who was attached to this system in the beginning and consistently held to term.  After some struggle with them in the breeding system, where the filtration is not as robust and diverse, I want to see what happens with them connected back to the reef.  These guys are hitting 5 years now and have not been holding consistently.
 
My schoal, (see other journal) seem to be encountering the same issue of not carrying to term.  So all in all, I am thinking water quality is a strong impact on them carrying to term.  We will soon see.
 
I intend on moving my PJs, and three pairs upstairs.  Just this pair and a very young pair will be directly on the reef, but the PJs and the older bangs will be moved to the room where they will receive frequent water changes to/from the reef.

Following some conversations at the MBI conference, these guys have been moved back into the reef system where water parameters are much closer to ideal (~0 nitrate, ph 8.4, alk 11, calc 425, phospate ~0) .  The thought is that water quality causes issues with the ability to hold to term.  These two have had babies come to term in the last 12 months, but only one batch that I am aware of. 
 
The move occured on Sept 28th and they started showing signs of spawning tonight, although I will force the male to drop the eggs, as he held a failed batch for almost 35 days up until 5 days ago and he is in pretty rough shape.
 
She was moved on the 28th of Sept, he was moved on the 3rd of October.

35days? wow that is long... I wish you success with the move

Michelle  
 

He never released, so I assume he was holding a bad batch.
 
This pair has now been moved to the reef system to see if spawn success goes up.  They were moved on 10/12