Breeding Journal, Species: Oxymonacanthus longirostris

General
Species:  Oxymonacanthus longirostris
Social Structure:  Pairs
Size of Individuals:  about 1.5 inches
Age of Individuals:  unknown
Date added to Tank:  7/20/11 , New pair 1/26/2012

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank: Two 20 gallon high tanks linked to a common sump.
Substrate Details:  live sand
Filtration Details:  100 micron filter bag, large brick of fake live rock in sump, small powerhead to return to both tanks, small powerhead in tank aimed along the surface, to provide maximum efficient flow, live sand in both tanks, previously used to house pairs of clownfish for at least a year.
Water Changes:  at first, 5 % daily, as I am feeding these guys so frequently, and they are not eating everything.  Later it will go to 5 % weekly when I am sure the biofilter is adequately handling the load.
Water Temperature:  80
Lighting:  room
Lighting Cycle:  14hrs light/10 dark
Other Tank Inhabitants:  neon gobie in one of the tanks on this system, in 2012: pair of target mandarins only

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types:  mixed shaved frozen bits of PE mysis and Ocean Nutrition F1 and pellet Otohime C1 , homemade mash
Feeding Schedule:  4 times daily for pellet, once or twice for frozen. New pair: twice daily pellet, once or twice frozen 

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn: 
Spawn Time of Day: 
Dates of Consecutive Spawns: 
Courtship Details: 
Egg Size: 
Egg Color: 
Egg Count: 

Hatch Details
Hatch Date: 
Hatch Time of Day: 
# Days after Spawn: 
Larvae Description: 


Larval Tank Details
Temperature:  80
Size of Larval Tank: 17 gallons          
Substrate Details:  bare
Other Tank Decor: 
Filtration Details:  central stand pipe, sponge filter, UV
Lighting:  fluorescent
Lighting Cycle:  24
Water Changes:  small daily

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start: 
Days after Hatch: 
Date of Settlement End: 
Description of Fry: 

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature: 
Size of Grow-Out Tank: 
Substrate Details: 
Other Tank Decor: 
Filtration Details: 
Lighting: 
Lighting Cycle: 
Water Changes: 
Size at Transfer: 
Age at Transfer: 

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Additional Information
 
(No Pictures or Videos in the Section Please)
Miscellaneous Information: 
I purchased these two pairs from a local store that employs a young man Kyle who took an interest in them.  When I saw the first one in the store it was emaciated, and I spoke the manager about her.  She seemed doomed. He was aware of strategies to save this fish, but I did not have much hope, given her condition.  The next time I visited the store, she was a mated to a male in that tank, and their bellies were rounded.  Kyle had followed Matt Pedersen's recommendations, and had trained these fish to eat frozen PE mysis. The next time I visited the store, there was a second pair, who, having watched the first pair, in the adjacent cube, strike the mysis, began doing so themselves.  So now there are two pairs of mated, mysis eating filefish.  How could I resist? I got them all.  The first pair is plump, the second, less so, but having two pairs increases my chances, so here goes.
 
The store had purchased all these fish from Quality Marine.  They were keep in mild copper system to prevent disease.
 
The third pair was obtained from Kate B., shipped to me from Portland, OR.




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Where's the "LOVE" button? 

MBI...or it never happened...

Go, Kathy, go!

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

I purchased these two pairs from a local store that employs a young man who took an interest in them.  When I saw the first one in the store it was emaciated, and I spoke the manager about her.  She seemed doomed. He was aware of strategies to save this fish, but I did not have much hope, given her condition.  The next time I visited the store, she was a mated to a male in that tank, and their bellies were rounded.  The young man had followed Matt Pedersen's recommendations, and had trained these fish to eat frozen PE mysis. The next time I visited the store, there was a second pair, who, having watched the first pair, in the adjacent cube, strike the mysis, began doing so themselves.  So now there are two pairs of mated, mysis eating filefish.  How could I resist? I got them all.  The first pair is plump, the second, less so, but having two pairs increases my chances, so here goes. 

 

Pair One:

Pair Two:

 

 

They'll be fat and happy in no time so long as you get them feeding 4-5 solid times per day.  You can totally do these Kathy.  Remember the spawning mop thing too.  FYI, since they spawn on a rock, you might try attaching the mops to a tile base or something and cutting them short.  All they are is acrylic yarn wrapped and cut to make a "pom pom" of sorts...you should be able to modify easily for one that's short and is wrapped on a tile (i.e. to be similar to the gracilaria on the rock).  Or you could try hanging ones like they use for Killiefish

Thanks Matt,
Right now I just wanna make sure they will fatten up.  I've noticed that they strike at whole mysis, but can they chew off bits? Do they have teeth in their mouth tube? 
 
I took some frozen mysis and grated it with a fine grater, and offered them that.  They seem to go for it, and its small enough that it can go down the tube mouth.
 
Pair one has a normal silouette, and I can see them striking at food whenever its offered. Female from Pair two strikes at food as well, but Male Pair 2 is showing signs of starvation.  He cruises the glass, and seldom strikes at bits passing by.  
 
Both fish from Pair 2 have thin silouettes, but the male is most skinny.
 
I've tried live pods as well, tiggers and M salina, but I'm not sure they are going for them.
 
I'l see if I can get some more browned acroporas. If so I may be able to keep Male Pair 2 alive long enough to complete his training.
 
I've trained my daughter to feed them while I'm at work.  She'll do well.

 

I have absolutely no knowledge of this type of fish.  Sounds very interesting.  Tagging along!

An interesting tidbit:
http://www.advancedaquari...squerading-as-its-prey

i just spent the evening reading a long thread on RC about bulking up these fish.  Then I dug out the nutrimar ova I've had in the Freezer for a couple of years.  Lights are off now, so I'll try some in the morning.  
As an aside, I was gone on Saturday so none of my current broodstock got fed for a good day and a half.  Since I got these filefish on Sunday, and have been feeding them every few hours since, the rest of the broodstock have been getting their regular feed plus the leftover from the filefish. Yesterday one pair clownfish spawned, and today two other pairs spawned, the biggest nests they have ever produced.  I should go away more often, or else the size of the spawn may be related to how much they eat the day before….now to find some rotifers….

I could have given you rots.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Tal, you are too kind.  I can always get rotifers from my professional zebrafish research guy at the University. Give a guy a pair of clownfish, and he gives you a supply of his excess rots whenever you need them.

very cool to see you doing this one Kathy!!  definately tagging along for the ride!

Pelagically yours,
~J      

Absolutely they do, right at the end.  Remember, they are still in the filefish family, which has teeth like triggerfish, puffers etc.  The opening is small on O. longirostris, and the teeth appear (from the naked eye) to be designed to "snip" off polyps.  They use this snipping mechanism to munch down flakes and pellets, and yes, they can tear through a mysis once they've learned how.
 
Nutramar Ova, if you can get it (and I see now you already had it), and Rod's Food - two really good "first foods" to try.  Another (adding an edit here as well) - minced squid.  I neglected to mention how well it worked for my Larvatus when first training them.

Matt

hmmmm….teeth but no jaws. How does that work for them?  I wonder if Witt has any wisdom on how this tube with teeth thing works.  He's been studying fish mouth mechanics.

Went down for the morning feeding. Skinny male looked to be pinned by the current to the dead acro. He didn't look too good yesterday, but I thought he would live a little longer than this.  Sad.
Got the food ready. started feeding the tanks. Skinny male never moves.  Not even a little.  No, he's not sleeping, he must be gone. Sad.
 
So after a few more minutes, I reach in the tank and take his lifeless body off the acro gently by the tail and set him on the aquarium lid...
 
He moves. !!!!!
I drop him back into the tank and he swims to the acro and starts picking at it like nothing happened. He and female interact, and he keeps picking the acro. 
 
!!!
Apparently, he's still alive. How would one have known?
Still too skinny for comfort, still not sure he'll make the transition, but, for now, still alive.

How fun! The best of luck to you Kathy!
I hope the thin male makes a full recovery.

Doni Marie~

How did the Ova go?
 
Don't give up on him, Kathy! Sometimes it seems like you keep them going by willpower alone. Keep trying everything. Live mysis sparked interest in mine even though I don't think they ate any.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

The Thin man is not looking good.  He soon disappeared and when I came home from work he was still disappeared.  I had to hunt for him, he was resting, and I got him to swim briefly but then he disappeared again.
 
The ova was met with indifference….

Sadly, Thin Man is dead. 
Thin female still eats and yet is still thin.
 
Pair one are rather plump looking with the female having that particularly gravid plump look about her.  She was making some pokes at the gravel that resemble the pokes that Matt's female made when she was preparing to spawn.  I guess I getter get that spawning mop made real soon.
 
I am not sure what to do with Thin Female. If I can fatten her up I may give her back to the store i got her from, so they can sell it as an acclimated fish.  They may be able to get me another male, but if Pair One spawns for me, I won't need a Pair Two. 
I suppose it would be good to have a backup pair, but I don't anticipate being able to sell a whole bunch of these fish should I be able to raise them.  ( I hope that sentence comes back to haunt me.)

Keep Thin Female.  Absolutely keep it.  You never know if/when a spare female will come in handy.  Sorry to hear about thin male, but you are still at a better success rate by 5% than me
 
Sadly, the one thing I failed to mention - separate QT for each fish.  With Thin Female and Thin Male both being hungry, if Thin female was better off, her presence (and presumably some aggression) may have pushed thin male over the edge.  Totally my fault for not thinking to mention it in our conversations...yes, it's in my article, but I neglected to remember to suggest that.  You can put thin man on me.

None of these fish are showing aggression. They are positively nice to each other.  I think Thin Female looked sad this evening, without Thin Man.  ( Anthropomorphosizing, shameful, sorry.)
 
You think I should separate Pair one if they are getting along and are fat and happy?
 
Also thinking about putting a sacrificial ocellaris in there with Thin Female to :
a) make sure she understands what food is.  If she sees the clown eating something it may give her ideas.
b) give her something to enrich her environment. Solitary confinement is never a good thing. 
 
I have a lot of ocellaris, and I can spare one if something bad happens in this quaranteen period.

Ocellaris might not be a bad idea because you can overfeed to compensate if the Ocellaris starts hogging all the food.
 
I have  sneaking suspicion that the relationship between the Thins wasn't as cordial as you suspected.  A hungry filefish is a mean filefish.  I would NOT separate your fat and happy pair since they are fat, happy and eating.  But in hindsight, I *might* have separated the thin ones so each fish could feed at its own pace.  I found that separation trumped the "teaching" effect.  Focus on those foods that the Thin Female WILL eat, and stuff her full of them.  As John Coppolino put it to me recently, early feeding of "picky eaters' like these (he was talking Angelfish) isn't about calorie quality, it's about calorie quantity.

I added an ocellaris to each of the tanks.  They seem fine with it.
 
While feeding their usual fare, I tried some Otohime C1.  They loved it!  This will make my life easier, if I can autofeed them pellets during the day!
 
Thin Female is still eating well. I suspect that I never saw aggression with Thin Female because, while she is still thin, she was always eating. So not actually hungry.  Also, I think it is good to have a fish that is feeding in with a fish that is learning to feed, so that there is a constant example of what to do.
 
I think the ocellaris will help to keep the tanks clean, as they will eat any excess food.
 
Pair One are still Fat and Happy.  Perhaps that should be their new names.  :0

I'm sorry to hear that you lost Thin Man, Kathy. Sounds like he just never picked up on the clue.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Ehh, he never really ate well. But, three out of 4 ain't bad.  My store is going to try to get another pair in and train it for me. We'll see.
 
Thin female and her new friend the ocellaris are seeming like good buddies.  They hang out together. The other ocellaris in the Pair One tank with Fat and Happy is a good neighbor as well. I think this was a good decision so far. Solitary confinement is a bad thing for people and for fish, I think.
 
I've made a template and have ordered some new glass lids cut for this pair of tanks.  Previously and presently they are covered with a hodge podge of glass and plastic.  The new covers will accomodate the returns, the clamp for the powerhead,and a hole for the autofeeder.  And it will prevent losses from jumping.  I can't wait until they are ready!

I fed them some floating pellets this evening.  All learned to suck them off the surface! Smart fish.

Now both tanks have a feeder with Otohime C1 to give them 4 small meals a day while I'm at work.  I am still feeding them shaved frozen PE mysis and a little shaved Ocean Nutrition Formula One frozen cube, and nutramar ova, morning and evening.
 
I also made a spawning mop on Saturday and they completely ignore it.  I am tempted to find some gracilria and tie to a piece of PVC

Love and War:
First time I saw some aggression: 
I got some browned out acros from a local store and the pair started to fight over them.  The male,Happy, sending the female, Fat, to the corner.  No actual damage.
 
You never saw a more devoted friend than the little black clown is to Thin Female.  He goes wherever she goes, and they are never more than an inch apart.

Love and War:
First time I saw some aggression: 
I got some browned out acros from a local store and the pair started to fight over them.  The male,Happy, sending the female, Fat, to the corner.  No actual damage.
 
You never saw a more devoted friend than the little black clown is to Thin Female.  He goes wherever she goes, and they are never more than an inch apart.

Kathy, they only time they'll show interest in the spawning mops is when they're actually in spawning condition and actually spawning.  I'm going to stick my my instincts - the spawning mops WILL work, especially if they are the ONLY suitable substrate.  But you have to have 4 or more so you can rotate them out daily.

I don't understand.  Why 4? Couldn't you take them in and out daily with 2?

I takes a couple of days for the eggs to hatch.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Yup 50+ hour incubation time.  So the mop you pull on Wed should hatch Friday, and then you'll want Saturday to maybe clean it so you can put it back in when you pull one on Sunday.  The whole reason to get in such a rotation is so you never actually have to know they spawned, you'll just get the eggs whenever they do.  While my pair did spawn daily, it didn't start that way.  The rotation would catch it.

When given a choice, Thin Female seems to prefer the Otohime floating at the surface, to shaved mysis in the water body.  She is thriving on it, though.  I could not detect a ridge of skeleton today that I've seen on her since the beginning.  Fat and Happy continue to do well.

Go Kathy! I'd proud of you, and your fish.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Thanks Andy! I'm going!

All 3 doing well. Fat and Happy seem to have permanently bulging tummys, not too much, but just right.  Thin Female is no longer thin, and sporting a bulge of her own.  Otohime, YAY!

Nice to hear. Now we need new photos!

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886