Class/mentoring group description

This mentoring group is intended as an introduction to basic culturing techniques for an easy pelagic copepod species, Apocyclops sp. (probably panamensis).
 
Why culture pelagic copepods?
Pelagic copepods are a mainstay in the diets of larval fish and invertebrates. They hold clear advantages over traditional early larval feeds (rotifers and brine shrimp nauplii) because they are much more nutritious. They also hold advantages over traditionally cultured benthic copepods because benthic copepods spend most, if not all, stages of their lives on or near some surface. Pelagic copepods spend all life stages suspended in the water column where each life stage is available to your larval fish.
 
Why culture Apocyclops sp.?
Apocyclops seem to me to be a perfect copepod for the beginner to pelagic copepod culture. They are a good size (1st stage nauplii have been measured at 90 microns, far smaller than normal rotifers) and they are the easiest of the pelagics that I have tried. They have been successfully used to rear both shrimp and larval fish.

 
Mentoring Group Structure
This mentoring group will be limited to around 15 participants. If you want or need to receive shipments from me then you must be located in the continental United States. (Sorry to those who don't live here, but international shipments of live animals are beyond me.)

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Very much looking forward to it Andy.  There was a lot of great discussion this weekend about copepods; specifically how Todd would try and time adding adult copepods to larval tanks such that the naupli would hatch out the on the day for first feedings by the larval.  I guess I should have taken better notes.

Rook

Can't wait!!!
 
Will these work as an alternative to rotifers for clowns first foods?

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

I believe they can, though I have to admit that I broke down and added rotifers also to the batch of clown larvae that I ran with these copepods.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

By the way, I know that I said this in the other thread but I also wanted to say this here:
 
This class really can't ramp up until the fall when it's possible to start shipping cultures of these little guys around the country and have a reasonable chance for them to survive. I'm willing to send you all starter cultures if you all will pay the costs of shipping and packaging. Sound fair?
 
In the meantime we can concentrate on making sure that you'll be ready once the copepods arrive.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

yep.

sounds more than fair. I was going to look for a place to purchase them myself, but getting a start from you would be even better!

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

 
I've been trying to do the same thing in my last 3 batches.   I seed the rearing tank with phyto and light 4-5 days before the hatch time, then add copepods and rotifer into the tank 1-2 days before hatch.   I don't have to feed the larvae or add anything into the tank for 7+ days on my 2nd try.  On my 3rd try, somehow the phyto didn't boom and I had to feed the tank with phyto everyday.  I'm still working on the timing to get it right.  Need to take better notes on exactly what I did and when.
 

Going to be an exciting topic for sure!!
 
Andy, feel like starting a thread in this section dedicated to algal culture so we can hopefully lend an easy to find helping hand?

Pelagically yours,
~J      

Go for it, man. I'm finally back to work on the Bike book that was supposed to go to press Friday. Sigh. Gonna be a long night.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

 
Sounds fair enough, looking forward to culturing some copepods!

Alright guys, as Andy said this group may not fully kick off until the fall....
 
HOWEVER!!!
 
The first lesson I learned is that if you arent prepared for a species when it hits your doorstep you most likely fail.  So lets all take this time studying and researching the needs of the species and the methods to provide for those needs.  As Andy has mentioned before there are a variety of food methodologies done for this species, from live unicultured algae, multiple live algaes, pastes, etc.  We should all have our methodology (at least our initial attempts) lined out prior to receiving the little guys.  Just because they are tiny does not mean they are not live animals!! 
 
My intention personally is to do at least two separate cultures, one following Andy's protocol using O. marina, and the second I plan on using some of my own protocols, maybe trying some brewers yeast, boiled wheat, or sugarcane (I've been meaning to try the sugarcane for a while to incite bacteria anyways).

Pelagically yours,
~J      

I'm really excited to participate in this.
 
I'm just getting started in breeding, having a pair of ocellaris that are laying regularly, but I haven't attempted to rear any of the eggs yet.  I have never cultured phytoplankton, rotifers, or even brine shrimp, much less copepods.  I have a copy of Frank Hoff's Plankton Culture Manual, but after a read through, I'm still not feeling all that educated.  I mentioned to Andy that that was likely due to a lack of practical experience.  Which I'm thinking I can overcome with some assistance here!
 
As far as methodology for the copepod culture goes, I would really like to try O. marina.  If I'm not having any luck with that, I still have RotiGrow Plus to fall back on.
 
You guys can feel free to use me as a control group to see if someone with no experience can succeed!

I as well would like to try to work with the o. marina, as part of my promise to myself when I got into breeding is no photo cultures.  So I have to operate off of pastes.

You'll succeed so long as you try!!
 
Hoffs manual is pretty much the plankton "bible" much like Wittenriches book is the breeders "bible".  That said you are not bad off saying that you do not feel much more educated after reading it.  You are 100% correct in the practical experience peice.  Hoffs manual written sooo long ago is like a chilton for mechanics...  Reading for the sake of reading it a lot of times does no good, when you begin culturing you'll start to get it trust me!!
 
If you can, start up some rotifers as soon as possible, this will help you to get comfortable with the culture water changes and maintenance process.  it will help you to set up a good routine as well which is of the most importance when culturing. 

Pelagically yours,
~J      

I have rotifers and nanno that shipped out today. I knew I should have ordered the Tiso too! dangit!

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

nah, the rotifers beleive it or not do very well from a growth standpoint on Nanno, the Iso is more for nutritional profile and DHA.  Nanno, while a very easy starter culture and a very common alga is not very nutritional in comparison to many others.  There is a huge following of Iso as the magic bullet which is as well IMHO a bad move.  It's the multiple culture that wins, there are plenty of studies to back and prove it.  Even with Nanno one can add a supplemental such as Iso, Tet, or even the pastes or an omega yeast (brewers yeast) to round out the nutritional profile.
 
Do not get stuck in a rut because something is popular, always look at the why's!!  I'll see if I can get some reprint rights for some of these papers.

Pelagically yours,
~J      

I just want to say what a great group I think this may turn out to be, and to volunteer as yet another source of starters of Apocyclops copepods and/or Oxyrrhis marina dinoflagellate food cultures!
 

Awesome, with Jim joining us it's bound to be a party!!  We now have another mentor to learn from IMHO!!  I look forward to how this discussion ramps up for sure!

Pelagically yours,
~J      

Thanks, Jim! You rock!
 
Like I say, these are good beginner critters. The O. marina is not much more difficult than rotifers and the Apocyclops is really forgiving except that (I always thought) they need a live food. Since I'm wrong about that last part, even better.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

This looks to be a fun project. I'm excited to get some culture back in my life!
 

 
Nice! I don't think I can help you with life culture unless you put "lack of" in front of it.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

hrmm considering Andy's one of the most cultured guys I know... uh...
 
where does that leave me...  oya...  

Pelagically yours,
~J      

I've been raising rotifers with no problem, and i have a 10 gallon with some copepods starting to take over, so I'm eager to learn how to keep these little critters going.

Well, I tried to get two cultures of copepods going from my free samples acquired from the workshop. I only had a couple copepods from each but it looks like I didn't do a very good job, I believe I lost them all. I am very excited that we are starting a class/group on these. I look forward to learning a lot. Thanks to those who made this happen.

Starting cultures from small stressed bottles of critters can be tough, most zooplankton cultures that fail will do so within the first few days.  Important to keep trying!  Makes me wish Alga Gen would post salinity and temp averages on the bottles themselves to help me along when trying to start a culture here.

Pelagically yours,
~J      

FlynnFish--Just so you know, these are a completely different type of copepod. The ones you are talking about are likely benthic, living on algae that grows on surfaces. If you see their population growing, then you are doing exactly the right things to keep them alive.
 
The copepods that you'll be working with here do not spend _any_ time on any surface. They have evolved to live in the open waters--mainly around coastlines--and eat the very small phytoplankton that grow in these waters. That's what's great about them! They naturally live and breed in exactly the same situations where you find fish larvae.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Andy, where is that video of O marina? I need to see it again to make sure I'm not culturing ciliates…...

O. marina does loop-the-loops and/or spirals, and has one (or two) long tails from the "back" end.  Ciliates move more slowly, and in a more random pattern, and have cilia all round their circumference.

Here's one, Kathy:
 

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

So, that's obviously a rotifer, maybe S strain. The little things that look like footballs are O. marina. It starts off at 40x. Later on I switch it to 10x. Then I try to go for 100x. Ha, ha.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

cool video!  The software that comes with my CCD sucks.  It only does like 1-2 fps.

Thanks Andy! Just what I needed!  

1.025 (I asked about that one a while ago  and temp is 78-80ish.  Next time I go over there I'll ask about temps, but  I know they culture some without ac...