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Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (P fridmani) Pr 1
Thursday, September 22, 2011 7:58 PM
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Breeding Journal DataSheet
General Species: Pseudochromis fridmani, Orchid Dottyback. Wild-caught as juveniles. Social Structure: Breeding pair. Size of Individuals: M - 2.5" SL, F - 2" SL. Age of Individuals: Age at purchase unknown. Date added to Tank: M - Nov 2010, 1" SL. F - Feb 2011, 1" SL. Broodstock Tank Details Size of Tank: 40 gallon breeder. 36x18x16". Substrate Details: Live rock rubble, crush coral, large shells. General chaos. Filtration Details: Just powerheads for water movement. Water Changes: Bi-weekly 20%. Tap water with Prime. Top off is RO/DI. Water Temperature: 76-78F Lighting: Ambient sunlight and compact fluorescent. Lighting Cycle: 8 am - 9 pm Other Tank Inhabitants: Lone male Banggai, 3 blue-leg hermits, one ring cowrie, 2 Astreae snails. Broodstock Feeding Details Food Types: Frozen: Homemade (white shrimp, halibut, capelin roe, clam, squid, Selcon, Kent garlic), PE Mysis. New Era Algae Flake. Feeding Schedule: 2x times per day. Spawning Details Date of First Spawn: Unknown. Spawn Time of Day: Unknown. Dates of Consecutive Spawns: ~ Sept 15, 2011. This is a guesstimate as the spawn was not seen. I just counted back 5 days from when the larvae hatched. ~ Sept 22, 2011 (I think...female appeared to slim down) ~ Sept 27, 2011 sometime between 11am and 4pm (I think...female appeared to slim down) [didn't pay attention to their breeding efforts] ~ Nov 29, 2011. Sometime before noon. ~ May 20 or 21, 2012. Spawn with new female. Possibly they have been spawning for a bit already and I haven't noticed. Courtship Details: Observed on Oct 4, 2011 the male swims up to the female's face, turns around and wiggles while slowly moving towards what I believe is his nesting site (haven't seen eggs there yet). He goes about 6" away, then swims back to the female's face, and repeats. Very cute. He appears to be trying to convince her to follow him. Egg Size: 1 mm. Measured via a 40x loupe with 0.1 mm graduated markings. Egg Color: Clear with a clear dot. Egg Count: Haven't seen the entire egg ball. Hatch Details Hatch Date: Sept 20, 2011. Hatch Time of Day: 11 pm, 2 hours after lights out. # Days after Spawn: Unknown. Larvae Description: See pics. Consecutive Hatch Date: #2 Sept 27, 2011. Sometime between 12am and 7:30am, spawn hatched 50 more larvae at 11 pm on 28th. #3a Oct 9, 2011. Hatching occurred from approximately 10 pm to 1 am (Oct 10). Collected ~150. #3b Oct 11, 2011. Continual hatching from 3a? Hatching was already started at 8pm (lights still on). Collected ~150. Larval Tank Details Temperature: 78F Size of Larval Tank: 7 gallon BRT filled with about 3 gallons. Substrate Details: None Other Tank Decor: Heater, air stone. Filtration Details: None. Lighting: Room fluorescent, and ambient sunlight. Lighting Cycle: 6:30 am - 11:30 pm Water Changes: Not yet. Larval Feeding Details Food Types: Rotifers; plicatilis, L-type. RotiGreen Omega for greenwater. Feeding Schedule: Loaded the tank Sept 20 to about 30 rots per mL, added more Sept 22 to about 60 rots per mL. Rotifers are maintaining population. NHBBS will be added on Sept 29 at 5 per mL. Metamorphosis/Settlement Date of Settlement Start: Days after Hatch: Date of Settlement End: Description of Fry:
Grow-Out Tank Details Temperature: Size of Grow-Out Tank: Substrate Details: Other Tank Decor: Filtration Details: Lighting: Lighting Cycle: Water Changes: Size at Transfer: Age at Transfer: Grow-Out Feeding Details Food Types: Feeding Schedule: Additional Information Courtship and spawning not observed. The female was ripe with eggs one day, and the next day she appeared thinner and appeared a bit roughed up (mostly her sides, not her tail). I think I know where the male was keeping the eggs, but it is not viewable. Approx 5 days later I find approx 250 larvae in the trap. I don't have a microscope, so no cool closeups from me! Batch #3a: Started in 9 gallon BRT with 8 gallons water. First time using BRT with white acrylic installed in bottom. Added enriched L-type rotifers (N-Rich PL Plus) at rate of about 30 per mL. RotiGreen Omega used for greenwater to add just light tint to water, added 2-3 times per day. Using 7.5 watt incandescent bulb indirectly lit 24/7. Adding 1.5 mL AmQuel per day, monitoring with SeaChem Ammonia Alert for backup. Batch #3b: Trying something different. I put this batch in a standard 5 gallon tank with the heater on one long pane near the bottom with the airstone under it. Attempting unidirectional water flow. Same steps with rotifers and lighting. Batch 3a and 3b turned out to be hermit crab larvae! Must look closer! Ack!
<message edited by EasterEggs on Monday, May 21, 2012 2:28 PM>
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Friday, September 23, 2011 9:13 AM
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Broodstock tank:  Larvae in trap:  Sieved rotifers:  Larval tank:  Larvae in tank: 
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Friday, September 23, 2011 5:11 PM
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Here is a photo from just a few minutes ago. You can see most of the larvae in the photo. I counted 80-90. Looks like about 1/3 of what I collected from the larvae trap. They have full bellies, so something must be going right. I tested ammonia earlier today and found it to be 0.5 ppm using an API kit. I had forgetton to add ammonia detoxifier, so I proceeded to add Prime and knocked it down to 0.25 ppm. I added more Prime and need to retest soon. I'm not sure if there is a MAX amount of Prime I can safely add. I am going to do a small vacuum of the bottom of the tank right now, and drip some water back in for a mini water change. I want to get the little dead bodies out of there before they break down too much. I can't see any dead ones, but I know they are in there! 60 hours PH: 
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Friday, September 23, 2011 5:20 PM
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Sweet!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Saturday, September 24, 2011 10:22 AM
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Thanks for following along Kathy! I was looking at your fridmani journal as well. Hopefully you get some larvae to work with soon.
My fridmani larvae are now 5 DPH (I count their hatch date of the 20th as 1 DPH right?), 84 hours PH. There does not appear to be any losses since I started using Prime. They sure have developed and grown a lot since they hatched.
I am trying to get a copepod culture going (have to find a source first) so that I can supplement before meta. I have contacted our local large university for cultures.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Saturday, September 24, 2011 7:14 PM
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Ammonia is the devil! I lost a bunch more larvae today. Ammonia sitting at 1 ppm. I think I only have about 40 left now. Ugh...I need some better ammonia fighting tactics. I have been pretty hands off, so I think I need to get in there and do drip waterchanges, be on top of it with Prime.
The pair have been showing courtship behaviors yesterday and today. The female is looking fairly round, so I expect more eggs in the next couple days. So with any luck in a week I will have more larvae to work with.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Saturday, September 24, 2011 11:11 PM
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Anytime you have a ton of bubbles hanging out at the top you have issues.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Sunday, September 25, 2011 8:55 AM
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Thanks for the hint Adam! I haven't noticed any bubbles collecting at the edges or anything, but if the tank is low on phyto (I'm using RotiGreen Omega) the bubbles will take a little longer to pop, but they don't float to the edges or anything.
Today is 6 DPH. I have been adding 1 mL Prime on every phyto addition now. I am removing one liter of water (and rots to keep their population in check) and dripping 1 liter of fresh saltwater back in everyday. I am also using a long eye dropper thingy to suck out any noticeable detritus/dead larvae. I see maybe 5 dead larvae today, still have 30-40. Once I figure out ammonia control I will be doing much better! I have ClorAm-X on order...probably be a couple weeks before I get it.
I would be surprised if I get any of these guys through meta. I'm going to start a culture of TiggerPods today. I am told the larvae will accept these when they are a couple weeks old, but I haven't seen anything written about that...they seem rather large for the larvae.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Sunday, September 25, 2011 10:26 AM
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what about ammo chips in a small lift tube? kinda like an egg tumbler but an ammo chip tumbler instead  can run you air stone below it to move the water over the ammo chips just a thought for constant ammonia control
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Sunday, September 25, 2011 12:05 PM
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Do those ammo chips actually work? I was under the impression that they aren't overly efficient. The larvae are pretty fast and have some strong swimming spurts surprisingly so I think they would be able to stay away from a tumbler. I will look into a design for this. Thanks for your input!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Sunday, September 25, 2011 12:19 PM
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now im no chemist, and i don't even play one on the internet, but this stuff i have used in the past and have taken brand newly sat up tanks and added fry with no ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate ever detectable http://www.thatpetplace.c...roup/10688/product.web i also do not promote this company its just the closest real LFS to me so im familiar with thier products
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Sunday, September 25, 2011 4:34 PM
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Hmm, I forgot about Chemi-Pure. That might be a decent avenue too. I really only have to wait a couple weeks before I will have ClorAm-X, after that it should be smooth sailing. I'm almost out of Prime, so I think I will pick up a jug of AmQuel to tide me over.
No eggs that I can see, but they sure are a flirty couple! The female is getting pretty round. People seem to say that Orchids spawn every 6-8 days, if that's the case I should have a hatch tonight or within the next couple days. I might turn on the larvae trap tonight just in case. The eggs hatch within an hour or two of dark (at least they did last time), so it's not a big deal to run the trap for a couple hours. With only 30-40 larvae left from the first hatch I would hate to miss an opportunity to get more.
From what I understand Orchids tend to have "marital issues" especially the wild-caught fish, so having a breeding pair now doesn't seem to have much guarantee that they will still be getting along so well in 6 months or tomorrow for all that matters. All the more reason to try to raise as many larvae as possible. Plus, I have the space right now.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 9:04 AM
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Collected another spawn this morning, slightly smaller than the last (~200?). I think it is smaller simply because it was in the trap for several hours (I assume). There was a Cowrie in there too, so it might have been snacking. They hatched sometime after midnight, last time they hatched at 11 pm. So they are about 6 days and a few hours between spawns. The female is plump, and given the cycle they should be spawning today (or maybe tomorrow).
The other batch is 8 DPH. I haven't checked on them this morning as I was distracted with the new hatch. I just added greenwater so I can't see them very well. I haven't lost any appreciable amount since I remembered to add ammonia detoxifier!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:29 PM
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I think they spawned again today sometime between 11 am and 4 pm. The female was round this morning, and now she is roughed up looking and slimmed down. She just gets some marks on her sides, he doesn't beat her up too bad, no ripped tails or anything.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:26 AM
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The hatch went over two days, I collected about 50 more larvae out of the trap at midnight lastnight.
I think I'm suddenly down to about 10 larvae from the 9 DPH batch. Not sure what's going on there. I'm going to start NHBBS tomorrow, not sure how I'm going to control the population of BS in the larvae tank...I will have to provide lots of NHBBS to get the density required for proper feeding, but that will mean there will be thousands in there that are growing too big for the larvae to eat them in just a short time...hmmmm.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:41 AM
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Batch #1 and #2 are no more.  Made it to 12 DPH on the first batch and 9 DPH on the second batch (if I remember correctly). Batch #3a Oct 9: Started in 9 gallon BRT with 8 gallons water. First time using BRT with white acrylic installed in bottom. Added enriched L-type rotifers (N-Rich PL Plus) at rate of about 30 per mL. RotiGreen Omega used for greenwater to add just light tint to water, added 2-3 times per day. Using 7.5 watt incandescent bulb indirectly lit 24/7. Adding 1.5 mL AmQuel per day, monitoring with SeaChem Ammonia Alert for backup. Batch #3b Oct 11: Trying something different. I put this batch in a standard 5 gallon tank with the heater on one long pane near the bottom with the airstone under it. Attempting unidirectional water flow. Same steps with rotifers and lighting. I did not setup the larvae collector on Oct 10. The hatch must have gone over 3 nights...weird!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Friday, October 14, 2011 10:28 AM
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So I figured out why the hatch went over 3-4 nights... I put my "Dotty" larvae under a microscope...and they are CRUSTACEANS!!! Probably Hermit Crab larvae (see my other thread, "Am I a Hermit Crab Larva?"). There have been times where I thought the larvae looked different and some batches were much more phototactic which I put down to having a stronger batch or a weaker batch, but possibly because some were Dottys and some were Crabs..? I will be keeping a closer eye on the larvae to find out if indeed I have been getting Dottys at some point! Ugh... If I can't find some REAL Dotty larvae in the next couple weeks I will be asking to remove my associated Hatch Report.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:26 PM
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YES!  I was walking by this tank this morning and I notice out of the corner of my eye something flapping in the water. I think this might be algae (dangit, I should be doing more waterchanges on this tank) so I take a closer look...nope not algae! These HAVE TO be Dottys eggs, please! He must have had a wad get loose from his stash. I collected these and tossed them into a brine shrimp hatchery with tank water and set the hatchery in the tank. I don't expect them to hatch like this (not nearly sterile enough), but I'm so happy I finally have proof! I tried to get them under my microscope, but it won't focus on them for some reason. They are definitely fertile though, and I'm sure they were only a few hours old when I collected them.   Eggs on the left of the vessel: 
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:57 AM
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I measured the eggs to be 1.0 mm with my 40x loupe that has 0.1 mm graduated markings on it. I have handled these eggs so much, and disturbed them so much that I am surprised I still have them. I removed two white eggs with a toothpick. I also dumped all the water out of the hatchery and filled it back up with "new" saltwater from the tank.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Orchid Dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani)
Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:07 PM
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Thats excellent. When the eggs are laid are yours clear like the picture or milky in colour? I was watching my female lay some a few days ago and they were cream/milky coloured (slightly yellow like milk from a cow not from a bottle ) She promptly took off with them still attached and I haven't seen them since, but its the third batch that I am aware of.
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