Apocyclops fed preserved phyto

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JimWelsh
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Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Sunday, September 25, 2011 12:05 AM
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The question often comes up, "Can you culture pelagic copepods without live phyto?"  I've been very successful at culturing Apocyclops panamensis using live phyto, specifically Isochrysis (T-Iso and C-Iso).  I've also recently added Thalassiosira weissflogii to the menu.  Andy Berry has clearly demonstrated that Apocyclops can be cultured using live Oxyrrhis marina as a feed, which he considers to be much easier than culturing phyto.  Nonetheless, many hobbyists still would like to be able to use preserved phyto pastes to culture a pelagic copepod directly.  Accordingly, I am going to conduct a long overdue experiment to see if I am able to culture Apocyclops using preserved phyto products.
 
I'd like at this point to explain that my methods employ some aspects one might expect to find in a "real" scientific experiment such as the use of a couple of controls and consistent treatment of the various cultues, except for the food provided, but most definitely lacks other aspects necessary for "real" science, such as replicates or objective quantification of the amount of food given, or objective quantification of the results.  I am not a "real" scientist.  I'm just a hobbyist who is a plankton geek.  Still, I think there might be some value to what I am doing here.  Another note I'd like to add is that two of the preserved phyto foods I'm using are definitely "past their prime".  They have been in my fridge for quite some time, and are, frankly, past their "best used by" date.  That said, they have no funky smell, and I am successfully feeding some happy Tigriopus with them, so they aren't all that bad.  I can, and am willing to repeat this experiment with some fresh preserved phyto products should the opportunity arise.  I just don't have a lot of fresh phyto paste on hand at the moment, and still got inspired to go ahead and start this experiment with the materials on hand.
 
I have taken 1 liter of a very dense Apocyclops panamensis culture that has been cultured using a combination of live Isochrysis galbana (C-Iso strain) and live Thalassiosira weissflogii.  The liter of Apocyclops I used was taken from the supernatant of a slightly larger volume that was placed into a graduated cylinder, after the sediment in the culture was allowed to settle.  I strained that liter of Apocyclops through an 80 micron sieve, and backwashed it into a clean container with 1500 ml of clean, fresh, seasoned artificial salt water at a specific gravity of 1.026 (Instant Ocean).  Now, I have 1500 ml of a "clean" Apocyclops culture with no appreciable amount of live phyto present.
 
I took that 1500 ml of clean Apocyclops culture, and divide it evenly between five 500 ml Erlenmeyer flasks, making sure to keep the culture stirred so as to distribute the copepods between the five flasks as evenly as possible.  I labeled the flasks with the numbers 1 through 5.  Each flask was fitted with a foam stopper that had a rigid airline tube inserted through the center of it, which reached to within appx. 1 cm of the bottom of the flask.  Each rigid airline was fitted with a flexible airline vinyl tube which was in turn affixed to an air distribution manifold, which in turn was supplied with air from a pump.  The five individual valves for each flask were adjusted to provide approximately 4-6 bubbles per second.
 
Each flask will be fed 30 ml of food each day.  Flask #1 will get straight, undiluted dense live phyto.  Flasks #2 through #4 will have their food added to 30 ml of water.  With the exception of flask #5 (the starvation control), the food density of each food type will be adjusted to visually match the density of the food given to flask #1 (the live phyto control) as well as I am able.  The feeds for each flask will be as follows:
 
1)  Live phytoplankton, a mix of Isochrysis and Thalassiosira.
2)  RotiGrow Nanno, a Nanochlorpsis-based preserved phyto paste.
3)  A "home brew" smorgasbord consisting of a combination of the following Reed Mariculture products:  RotiGreen, N-Rich Plus, Thalassiosira weissflogii, Shellfish Diet 1800.
4)  Reef Nutrition "Phyto Feast".
5)  Plain salt water (a starvation control).
 
Flasks #2, #3, and #4 will also be given an ChlorAm-X solution, in an amount I estimate is appropriate for the amount of phytoplankton being fed.
 
After approximately 6 or 7 days, the 500 ml flasks should be full.  At that time, I will transfer the contents of each flask into clean 1000 ml flasks, after turning off the air for long enough to allow the sediment to settle, and attempting to avoid transferring the sediment into the new flask.  I will attempt to transfer the same amount into each new flask, i.e., the starvation flask will likely have very little sediment, but that doesn't mean I will transfer more volume from that flask than the others.  After the transfer to the new flasks, I will increase the daily amount of feed from 30 ml to 50 ml.  That will give approximately 10 or 11 more days before the 1000 ml flasks are full, for a total of from 16 to 18 days of the experiment.  At that point, I'll figure out what to do, based on the results so far.
 
I will view the contents of each flask daily, and estimate the density of the culture in each flask, using a subjective scale ranging from 0 through 5, as follows:
 
0:  No live copepods visible at all.
1:  Very, very few live copepods visible.
2:  A small number of live copepods visible.
3:  A moderate but healthy culture of copepods.
4:  A strong and somewhat dense culture of copepods.
5:  An extremely dense culture of copepods.
 
As of right now, the flasks have all been prepared as described above, and have all been fed their first feeding.  Each flask rates a "4" tonight, since a level "5" culture was diluted from 1000 ml to 1500 ml to prepare the flasks.  I'll keep you all posted!
 
<message edited by JimWelsh on Sunday, September 25, 2011 2:38 PM>

EasterEggs
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:07 AM
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Thank you very much for doing this Jim!  I look forward to your results, as I am one of the people that has been asking about copepods and algae paste!

CableGuy
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:43 AM
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Wow... this is awesome Jim!   This will take the class Andy in having to the next level. 
-Adam

KathyL
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Sunday, September 25, 2011 2:07 PM
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go Jim, go!

Caesra
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:32 PM
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Excellent

JimWelsh
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Sunday, September 25, 2011 10:15 PM
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Thanks, everybody!
 
Day 1:  All 5 flasks still at level 4.  Nothing to report at all yet.

JimWelsh
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 2:14 AM
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Day 2:  All 5 flasks still at level 4, but if I had fractional levels, flask #1 would definitely be a 4.5!  Looking at the flasks tonight, I realized that I should have included a gauge of the relative number of gravid females visible.  Flask #1 has MANY, MANY gravid females clearly visible.  Flask #2 has very few gravid females visible.  Flask #3 has a few more than #2, but still not very many.  Flasks #4 and #5 have no gravid females visible.

KathyL
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:54 AM
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In hindsight, I wonder what RotiGrow+ would have done for you?
 
This is a great effort, and I look forward to future results! Thanks for doing this and posting about it.

EasterEggs
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 9:16 AM
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So far...these results are discouraging!  Dangit.  :p

CableGuy
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 9:35 AM
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Yer' killin' me smalls!
-Adam

JimWelsh
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:21 AM
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Kathy, I can easily repeat the experiment with fresh RG Complete when it arrives for Andy's class.

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:00 PM
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Thx Jim

CableGuy
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:19 PM
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Quote Originally Posted by JimWelsh


Kathy, I can easily repeat the experiment with fresh RG Complete when it arrives for Andy's class.


Awesome Jim!
-Adam

JimWelsh
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Tuesday, September 27, 2011 11:39 PM
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Day 3:  Flask #1 is now a level 5, with many, many gravid females.  The other flasks are all still #4.  Flask #2 still has just a couple of gravid females.  Flask #3 does have several gravid females visible.  I think I saw maybe 1 gravid female in Flask #4.  I can see no gravid females in Flask #5.

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Wednesday, September 28, 2011 8:44 AM
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Quote Originally Posted by JimWelsh


Kathy, I can easily repeat the experiment with fresh RG Complete when it arrives for Andy's class.

I even woke up early to make sure those shipments head out today
 
Oh and you can't get much fresher, it was made yesterday

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:06 AM
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Excellent!  Thanks, Gresh!

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:28 AM
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Day 4:  Flask #1 is a solid level 5, with many, many gravid females.  Flask #2 is now a level 3 (but it is a tough call, really a 3.5, as are #4 and #5), and it has just a few gravid females visible.  Flask #3 is still a level 4, and has several gravid females present.  Flask #4 is a level 3 (3.5?), and has just a couple of gravid females present.  Flask #5 is a level 3 (3.5?), and has absolutely no gravid females present.
 
I'm starting to think that one or more of the "smorgasbord" components of the feed for Flask #3 appear to have some merit.  It might be an interesting follow-up experiment to isolate the various components of this mixture of feeds to see which one or ones produce the most positive results.  But I'm getting ahead of myself....

EasterEggs
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:53 AM
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Quote Originally Posted by JimWelsh
I'm starting to think that one or more of the "smorgasbord" components of the feed for Flask #3 appear to have some merit.

 
That's what I was thinking too.   It keeps some hope alive!

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:49 PM
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I know it's a bit late but you might consider using letters for your flasks instead of numbers to avoid confusion.
http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

JimWelsh
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:09 PM
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You mean confusion between a given flask, and what "level" it is at?

Fishtal
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:41 PM
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Quote Originally Posted by JimWelsh


You mean confusion between a given flask, and what "level" it is at?

Yeah. Flask A is at level 5
http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:48 PM
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Wow. Cool experiment, Jim! Thanks for doing this. And interesting results so far. Do you have an estimate (or photos) to show the amounts of sediment in each flask?
 
If you ever do this again, I'd be interested to see how O. marina compares to autotrophic phyto.
 
(And thanks to you, too, Gresh! Woohoo!)
 
 
--Andy, the bucket man.
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JimWelsh
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:23 PM
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Here you go, Andy:
 



 
As you can see, Flask #5 has no sediment to speak of.  Flasks #1 and #3 have the most sediment.  Flasks #2 and #4 have some, with #2 having the least.  Curiously, the amount of sediment roughly correlates with the health of the cultures as gauged by the number of gravid females present.  Perhaps that means that the sediment has feces as a large component of it (eaten food) as opposed to algae cells (uneaten food)?
 
EDIT:  It may look like Flask #4 has a lot of sediment, but it is a thin, dark layer spread across the bottom.  The bubbling action has accumulated the sediment in Flasks #1 - #3 into the left-hand side of each, and #1 and #3 have a relatively thick pile of sediment, compared to the other flasks. 
 
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:38 PM
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Jim you rock, keep it comming and repeat with RG+ and RGC if you feel the urge

JimWelsh
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Friday, September 30, 2011 2:33 AM
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Day 5:  Flask #1 still a level 5, with large numbers of gravid females.  Flask #2 is turning cloudy -- I don't know if it is an Oxyrrhis bloom or a bacterial bloom, but it is still a level 3, however, I do see a larger number of gravid females in this flask than before.  Flask #3 is also cloudy, and is a level 4, with a moderate number of gravid females.  Flask #4 is clear (not cloudy), a level 3, but I am also seeing a larger number of gravid females in this flask than before, too.  Flask #5 is a level 3, but I see absolutely no gravid females at all.
 
Perhaps it takes the copepods a few days to adjust to the new food, and then they are able to adapt, and make eggs/babies from the new food?  It is starting to look like that may be the case.  Each of the flasks #2 - #4 do have gravid females at this point, and the starved flask has none.
 

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Friday, September 30, 2011 5:31 AM
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did you have O. marina in the culture?  I do, and i noticed a cloudiness early on in the culture, then a great bloom, then, unfortunately, a crash.  They are recovering now…but back to Jim's experiment.

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Friday, September 30, 2011 7:16 AM
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This is really cool stuff, Jim. Thanks for the photos. I'm sure there must be some meaning there, but I can't come up with anything other than your reasonable explanation. Maybe after coffee.
 
Regarding the blooms: Maybe they are eating something other than the algae paste and needed to wait for whatever _that_ is to bloom in response to all the available food before the copepods were able to have their own bloom?
--Andy, the bucket man.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Friday, September 30, 2011 11:06 AM
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I see no O. marina in the cloudy cultures in the small samples I've examined with the microscope, so I suspect it is a bacterial bloom.  Perhaps Andy is right, the copepods are eating whatever is blooming, but I didn't think they would eat something as small as bacteria, and remember Flask #4 has no bloom at the moment, and is also starting to get more gravid females.

Umm_fish?
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Friday, September 30, 2011 8:12 PM
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Well, maybe a last ditch spawn of animals that are starving then? No clue.
--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Saturday, October 1, 2011 12:22 AM
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Day 6:  Flask #1 remains a strong level 5 with many gravid females.  Flasks #2 through #4 are all a level 3 tonight, even though I can see some/several gravid females in each of them.  Flask #5 is a level 3, too, with no gravid females at all.  Yes, Flask #3 has been downgraded to a level 3.  Flasks #2 and #3 still have a cloudy bloom going on.
 
I'm starting to think I should start a new experiment where the variable is not so much the TYPE of preserved phyto as it is the AMOUNT of live phyto given at each feeding.  I should probably keep Flask #5 going, though, to establish how long it takes to starve an Apocyclops culture.  That way, I can probably eliminate that flask from future trials.

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Saturday, October 1, 2011 9:32 AM
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Interesting observations Jim. 
 
Quote Originally Posted by
...a new experiment where the variable is not so much the TYPE of preserved phyto as it is the AMOUNT of live phyto given at each feeding.

 
The bolded word, is that supposed to be "preserved" instead?

JimWelsh
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Saturday, October 1, 2011 10:06 AM
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Yes, I mean preserved instead of live.  Thanks for catching that.

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Sunday, October 2, 2011 12:37 AM
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Day 7:  Flask #1 is, of course, a level 5.  Flasks #2 and #3 are a level 3.  Flask #4 is back to a level 4!  Flask #5 is also a level 3.
 
Flask #2 is still very cloudy.  Flask #3 has a LOT of clumpy, fluffy sediment.  Flask #4 remains relatively clear.
 
As usual, Flask #1 has many, many gravid females. Flasks #2 and #3 each have a noticeable number of gravid females, but the egg density is not that high.  Flask #4 has a higher number of gravid females that #2 or #3, and the number of eggs each female is carrying appears greater in Flask #4.  Flask #5 has no gravid females.
 
Looking at the flasks tonight, another measure of culture health occurs to me.  I can see a very large number of very tiny nauplii in Flask #1.  So far, I cannot detect any nauplii in the other flasks.  The cloudiness of Flask #2 and the clumpy, fluffy stuff in Flask #3 might be interfering, but Flask #4 is clear enough that I don't have any excuse.  Still. I see no nauplii.  Perhaps I just need to be patient.

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Sunday, October 2, 2011 9:19 AM
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Possibly. The other cultures did have a few days with no egg production. I've seen similar lags in copepod production in some of my cultures, then they seem to explode. Maybe a similar cause? Flask 5 makes me sad, but I would like to know how long they'll last. Also important (but not something you are focusing on here, I know) would be how long they can starve and still be coaxed back into a thriving culture.
--Andy, the bucket man.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Sunday, October 2, 2011 10:48 AM
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Well, I agree I get no joy out of Flask #5, but I feel it is important information for this project.  Good thing is I'll only have to do a Flask #5 once, as far as I'm concerned.
 
And you have a good idea, Andy, I should try to split some of Flask #5 near the end, and see if I can bring them back.

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Monday, October 3, 2011 1:12 AM
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Day 8:  Flask #1 is .... anybody want to guess?  Yes, a level 5.  Flask #2 is being upgraded to a level 4, with many more gravid females visible.  Flask #3 remains a level 3, with fewer gravid females visible than #2 or #4.  Flask #4 remains a level 4, with many gravid females visible, but fewer than Flask #2.  Flask #5 remains a level 3, with no gravid females visible.
 
I'm still having a hard time seeing nauplii in Flasks #2 through #4, but can clearly see them in Flask #1.  All of the flasks are full almost to the brim, but I don't have 1000 ml flasks ready to transfer them into, so they just got really, really full tonight.  I'll deal with transferring them tomorrow.
 

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Sunday, October 9, 2011 3:42 PM
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…dying for an update….

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Monday, October 10, 2011 2:01 AM
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Yes, I know I've been a slacker on this thread....
 
Basically, I decided to drop this particular experiment, and instead do an experiment with the RGComplete and also some fresh Shellfish Diet 1800 that Chad Clayton from Reed has sent me.  I'll be starting that experiment up this next week.
 
Between the Parvocalanus, and also some Nitroka lacustris that I've ordered from a supplier in Canada, and other various cultures, I've run out of flasks, and was not able to continue the previous experiment as I had planned.  Besides, I started perceiving various flaws in this experiment.  I have kept flask #5 (the starvation control) going, just to see how long it takes them to die off.  So far, they are still a "Level 3".  They are really tough buggers, and very hard to kill off via starvation, apparently, since it's been two weeks already!
 
I stopped the experiment about 3 days ago.  When I did, Flask #1 was a "Level 5", of course.  Flasks #2, #3, and #4 were, in fact, Levels 2, 3, and 4, respectively (NO, I did not plan this).  Flask #2 had become VERY cloudy, and that cloudiness seems to have had a negative effect on the health of the culture.  Flask #3 was also somewhat cloudy, but not as much as #2.  Flask #4 remained somewhat clear, with substantial sediment, but was the healthiest non-live-phyto flask of all (aside from #5, of course).  There were gravid females visible in all of the flasks except #5.  The relative number of gravid females in each flask directly correlates with the "Level' of each flask at the time I terminated the experiment.
 
It does appear that Apocyclops can be raised with preserved phyto pastes.  In this simple trial, the PhytoFeast flask fared better than the other ones, excluding the live phyto flask.  It is clear that none of the preserved phyto flasks did anywhere nearly as well as the live phyto flask, but they did still reproduce, nonetheless.
 
I'll start another thread soon about my experiments with the new RGComplete product, as well as the Shellfish Diet 1800 that Chad Clayton, Reed's copepod guy, has suggested that I try.  These trials will, in accordance with Luis' suggestions, focus on determining the correct feed density of the different feeds for this copepod species.  I'll very likely repeat the same experiment with different copepod species (Acartia tonsa and Parvocalanus crassiostris) very soon.
 

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Monday, October 10, 2011 6:20 AM
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Awesome work.  Thanks Jim!

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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto - Monday, October 10, 2011 7:24 AM
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I'm on week 4 of Parvocalanus on O. marina. Things seem to be going much better this time. They need--and want--far, far less O. marina than Apocyclops does.
--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

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