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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:41 PM
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 Originally Posted by JimWelsh
You mean confusion between a given flask, and what "level" it is at?
Yeah. Flask A is at level 5 
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:48 PM
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Wow. Cool experiment, Jim! Thanks for doing this. And interesting results so far. Do you have an estimate (or photos) to show the amounts of sediment in each flask? If you ever do this again, I'd be interested to see how O. marina compares to autotrophic phyto. (And thanks to you, too, Gresh! Woohoo!)
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:23 PM
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Here you go, Andy: As you can see, Flask #5 has no sediment to speak of. Flasks #1 and #3 have the most sediment. Flasks #2 and #4 have some, with #2 having the least. Curiously, the amount of sediment roughly correlates with the health of the cultures as gauged by the number of gravid females present. Perhaps that means that the sediment has feces as a large component of it (eaten food) as opposed to algae cells (uneaten food)? EDIT: It may look like Flask #4 has a lot of sediment, but it is a thin, dark layer spread across the bottom. The bubbling action has accumulated the sediment in Flasks #1 - #3 into the left-hand side of each, and #1 and #3 have a relatively thick pile of sediment, compared to the other flasks.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:38 PM
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Jim you rock, keep it comming and repeat with RG+ and RGC if you feel the urge 
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Friday, September 30, 2011 2:33 AM
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Day 5: Flask #1 still a level 5, with large numbers of gravid females. Flask #2 is turning cloudy -- I don't know if it is an Oxyrrhis bloom or a bacterial bloom, but it is still a level 3, however, I do see a larger number of gravid females in this flask than before. Flask #3 is also cloudy, and is a level 4, with a moderate number of gravid females. Flask #4 is clear (not cloudy), a level 3, but I am also seeing a larger number of gravid females in this flask than before, too. Flask #5 is a level 3, but I see absolutely no gravid females at all. Perhaps it takes the copepods a few days to adjust to the new food, and then they are able to adapt, and make eggs/babies from the new food? It is starting to look like that may be the case. Each of the flasks #2 - #4 do have gravid females at this point, and the starved flask has none.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Friday, September 30, 2011 5:31 AM
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did you have O. marina in the culture? I do, and i noticed a cloudiness early on in the culture, then a great bloom, then, unfortunately, a crash. They are recovering now…but back to Jim's experiment.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Friday, September 30, 2011 7:16 AM
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This is really cool stuff, Jim. Thanks for the photos. I'm sure there must be some meaning there, but I can't come up with anything other than your reasonable explanation. Maybe after coffee. Regarding the blooms: Maybe they are eating something other than the algae paste and needed to wait for whatever _that_ is to bloom in response to all the available food before the copepods were able to have their own bloom?
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Friday, September 30, 2011 11:06 AM
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I see no O. marina in the cloudy cultures in the small samples I've examined with the microscope, so I suspect it is a bacterial bloom. Perhaps Andy is right, the copepods are eating whatever is blooming, but I didn't think they would eat something as small as bacteria, and remember Flask #4 has no bloom at the moment, and is also starting to get more gravid females.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Friday, September 30, 2011 8:12 PM
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Well, maybe a last ditch spawn of animals that are starving then? No clue.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Saturday, October 1, 2011 12:22 AM
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Day 6: Flask #1 remains a strong level 5 with many gravid females. Flasks #2 through #4 are all a level 3 tonight, even though I can see some/several gravid females in each of them. Flask #5 is a level 3, too, with no gravid females at all. Yes, Flask #3 has been downgraded to a level 3. Flasks #2 and #3 still have a cloudy bloom going on. I'm starting to think I should start a new experiment where the variable is not so much the TYPE of preserved phyto as it is the AMOUNT of live phyto given at each feeding. I should probably keep Flask #5 going, though, to establish how long it takes to starve an Apocyclops culture. That way, I can probably eliminate that flask from future trials.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Saturday, October 1, 2011 9:32 AM
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Interesting observations Jim.
Originally Posted by ...a new experiment where the variable is not so much the TYPE of preserved phyto as it is the AMOUNT of live phyto given at each feeding. The bolded word, is that supposed to be "preserved" instead?
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Saturday, October 1, 2011 10:06 AM
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Yes, I mean preserved instead of live. Thanks for catching that.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Sunday, October 2, 2011 12:37 AM
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Day 7: Flask #1 is, of course, a level 5. Flasks #2 and #3 are a level 3. Flask #4 is back to a level 4! Flask #5 is also a level 3. Flask #2 is still very cloudy. Flask #3 has a LOT of clumpy, fluffy sediment. Flask #4 remains relatively clear. As usual, Flask #1 has many, many gravid females. Flasks #2 and #3 each have a noticeable number of gravid females, but the egg density is not that high. Flask #4 has a higher number of gravid females that #2 or #3, and the number of eggs each female is carrying appears greater in Flask #4. Flask #5 has no gravid females. Looking at the flasks tonight, another measure of culture health occurs to me. I can see a very large number of very tiny nauplii in Flask #1. So far, I cannot detect any nauplii in the other flasks. The cloudiness of Flask #2 and the clumpy, fluffy stuff in Flask #3 might be interfering, but Flask #4 is clear enough that I don't have any excuse. Still. I see no nauplii. Perhaps I just need to be patient.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Sunday, October 2, 2011 9:19 AM
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Possibly. The other cultures did have a few days with no egg production. I've seen similar lags in copepod production in some of my cultures, then they seem to explode. Maybe a similar cause? Flask 5 makes me sad, but I would like to know how long they'll last. Also important (but not something you are focusing on here, I know) would be how long they can starve and still be coaxed back into a thriving culture.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Sunday, October 2, 2011 10:48 AM
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Well, I agree I get no joy out of Flask #5, but I feel it is important information for this project. Good thing is I'll only have to do a Flask #5 once, as far as I'm concerned. And you have a good idea, Andy, I should try to split some of Flask #5 near the end, and see if I can bring them back.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Monday, October 3, 2011 1:12 AM
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Day 8: Flask #1 is .... anybody want to guess? Yes, a level 5. Flask #2 is being upgraded to a level 4, with many more gravid females visible. Flask #3 remains a level 3, with fewer gravid females visible than #2 or #4. Flask #4 remains a level 4, with many gravid females visible, but fewer than Flask #2. Flask #5 remains a level 3, with no gravid females visible. I'm still having a hard time seeing nauplii in Flasks #2 through #4, but can clearly see them in Flask #1. All of the flasks are full almost to the brim, but I don't have 1000 ml flasks ready to transfer them into, so they just got really, really full tonight. I'll deal with transferring them tomorrow.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Sunday, October 9, 2011 3:42 PM
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Monday, October 10, 2011 2:01 AM
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Yes, I know I've been a slacker on this thread.... Basically, I decided to drop this particular experiment, and instead do an experiment with the RGComplete and also some fresh Shellfish Diet 1800 that Chad Clayton from Reed has sent me. I'll be starting that experiment up this next week. Between the Parvocalanus, and also some Nitroka lacustris that I've ordered from a supplier in Canada, and other various cultures, I've run out of flasks, and was not able to continue the previous experiment as I had planned. Besides, I started perceiving various flaws in this experiment. I have kept flask #5 (the starvation control) going, just to see how long it takes them to die off. So far, they are still a "Level 3". They are really tough buggers, and very hard to kill off via starvation, apparently, since it's been two weeks already! I stopped the experiment about 3 days ago. When I did, Flask #1 was a "Level 5", of course. Flasks #2, #3, and #4 were, in fact, Levels 2, 3, and 4, respectively (NO, I did not plan this). Flask #2 had become VERY cloudy, and that cloudiness seems to have had a negative effect on the health of the culture. Flask #3 was also somewhat cloudy, but not as much as #2. Flask #4 remained somewhat clear, with substantial sediment, but was the healthiest non-live-phyto flask of all (aside from #5, of course). There were gravid females visible in all of the flasks except #5. The relative number of gravid females in each flask directly correlates with the "Level' of each flask at the time I terminated the experiment. It does appear that Apocyclops can be raised with preserved phyto pastes. In this simple trial, the PhytoFeast flask fared better than the other ones, excluding the live phyto flask. It is clear that none of the preserved phyto flasks did anywhere nearly as well as the live phyto flask, but they did still reproduce, nonetheless. I'll start another thread soon about my experiments with the new RGComplete product, as well as the Shellfish Diet 1800 that Chad Clayton, Reed's copepod guy, has suggested that I try. These trials will, in accordance with Luis' suggestions, focus on determining the correct feed density of the different feeds for this copepod species. I'll very likely repeat the same experiment with different copepod species (Acartia tonsa and Parvocalanus crassiostris) very soon.
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Monday, October 10, 2011 6:20 AM
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Awesome work. Thanks Jim!
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Re:Apocyclops fed preserved phyto
Monday, October 10, 2011 7:24 AM
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I'm on week 4 of Parvocalanus on O. marina. Things seem to be going much better this time. They need--and want--far, far less O. marina than Apocyclops does.
--Andy, the bucket man. "Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886
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