Breeding Journal, Species: Pseudochromis tapeinosoma

General
Species:  Pseudochromis tapeinosoma
Social Structure:  Male / Female pair
Size of Individuals:  Appx. 2"
Age of Individuals:  Unknown
Date added to Tank:  11/29/2011

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank:  29 Gallons
Substrate Details:  Live sand
Filtration Details:  HOB Bio-Wheel filter
Water Changes:  Generally, frequent and fairly large, as this tank has no Clean Up Crew.  About 15-25% every 2-3 days or so.
Water Temperature:  77 - 80 F
Lighting:  Fluorescent strip light
Lighting Cycle:  Manual - Appx. 16 H on / 8 H off
Other Tank Inhabitants:  None

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types:  Various Frozen foods.  Mostly Spirulina Brina and Marine Cuisine, but with PE Mysis and Squid at first to induce spawning.  The female is also often fed leftover Nutrimar Ova from my Pipefish feedings.  Also, Spectrum pellets and C2 TDO, from time to time.
Feeding Schedule:  2-4 times a day.  Perhaps even 5-6 times a day on weekends, when I'm home all day.  My goal is to feed them small amounts, very often.

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn:  1/12/2012
Spawn Time of Day:  Unknown.  Sometime between 10:00 AM and 5:00 PM.
Dates of Consecutive Spawns:  1/25/2012 @ 9:30 AM, 2/5/2012 @ 2:00 PM, 2/17/2012 @ 10:30 AM, 2/29/2012 @ 10:00 AM
Courtship Details:  They "face off" at the tank divider quite regularly.  The male displays quite intense colors.  The female attempts to attack the male through the divider.  They really seem to want to kill each other.  I keep them separated most of the time, but let them get together for a few minutes every few days.  NOTE:  The day of the actual spawn, all aggression disappears.  They almost act as though they actually like each other!
Egg Size:  Appx. 1 mm.  Round.
Egg Color:  Kind of a pinkish/orangish white.
Egg Count:  Unknown.  Probably between 100-200.  Subsequent spawns had more eggs -- several hundred.

Hatch Details
Hatch Date:  First hatch was 2/9/2012.  Second hatch was 2/21/2012.
Hatch Time of Day:  Appx. 10:00 PM, shortly after lights out.
# Days after Spawn:  4
Larvae Description:  Long, thin, appx. 1mm long, with prominent eyes.


Larval Tank Details
Temperature:  78-80 F
Size of Larval Tank:  Appx. 15 gallons capacity BRT
Substrate Details:  None
Other Tank Decor:  None
Filtration Details:  None
Lighting:  Fluorescent strip light
Lighting Cycle:  Initially, 24/7
Water Changes:  None at first.

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types:  Apocyclops panamensis, all life stages, continuously available at first.
Feeding Schedule:  Constant at first.

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start: 
Days after Hatch: 
Date of Settlement End: 
Description of Fry: 

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature: 
Size of Grow-Out Tank: 
Substrate Details: 
Other Tank Decor: 
Filtration Details: 
Lighting: 
Lighting Cycle: 
Water Changes: 
Size at Transfer: 
Age at Transfer: 

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Additional Information

(No Pictures or Videos in the Section Please)
Miscellaneous Information: 



You will be required to provide photographic or video evidence in this thread of each event submitted for the MBI Program.
If your thread does not contain these photos the MBI Committee will not be able to approve your reports. PHOTOS AND VIDEO S MUST BE PLACED IN ADDITIONAL POSTS, NEVER IN THE FIRST POST IN A JOURNAL.

I managed to pounce on this rare pair of P. tapeinosoma from Diver's Den last Wednesday!  They arrived in great condition today (no surprise, with Diver's Den fish).  They are hardly settled in yet, and the water hasn't even cleared from some sand stirring I did today, but thought I'd get a couple of pics taken today, just to document that I really did get these (there was another person who posted in Matt's blog that she had purchased them {insert troll image here}).
 
Based on Matt's experience with these, I have chosen to keep them separated using a tank divider.  I have a nice tight-fitting glass lid, too, since there is apparently a tendency for these to jump, and I have also not filled the tank entirely, to make jumping more of a challenge.  Here is their new home:
 

 
They are spending most of their time in their PVC pipe caves right now, but do come out to greet / face off each other from time to time:
 

 
Here is the best image of the male I could get tonight:
 

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SWEET!

Very nice! I'm glad everything worked out.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Oh, good luck Jim! Very nice!

Any updates Jim? 
 
Cheers!

Update:  I've had them for a little more than a month now.  The female is getting nice and fat, and I think she may be getting ready to spawn soon.  Her appetite is very good, and she is eating like a pig.  They continue to spend a lot of time confronting each other at the divider.  She frequently tries to attack him through the divider when he is there, and they both swim back and forth along the divider, "following" or "chasing" each other.  A few times I've opened the gate between their sides.  Sometimes he ends up on her side, in which case she attacks him over and over again, swimming very quickly out from her PVC cave to attack, then returning to her cave, only to attack again in a few seconds.  More often, she ends up on his side, where he alternates between parallel swimming next to her, and attacking her, but his attacks aren't as vigorous as hers are against him.  In any event, the "trespasser" is invariably too traumatized by the attacks to find their way back through the gate into their own half of the aquarium, and I have to net them to put them back.

Stealing from Matt's post about a closely related species on another breeding site:
EGGS EGGS EGGS EGGS EGGS!!!
 
The female has been looking quite gravid for the last week or so.  My wife and I went away for a brief vacation Monday and Tuesday nights.  On Sunday, I let the female into the male's side of the tank, but he just harassed her.  Last night, after we got back from the vacation, she was looking really, really ripe, so I let her out again.  This time, the male was MUCH nicer to her, and kept leading her to his PVC pipes, and she even went once, but came out right away, and she kept just trying to get away from him.  After about 10 minutes, he started getting frustrated with her, and started attacking her, so I netted her and put her back on her side.
 
I was planning on letting her out again tonight, but when I got home from work, there was this large egg mass on the outside of her PVC pipes.  Guess I timed this one poorly, and they probably have some learning to do, but I'm getting closer.  In Matt's case, with P. cyanotaenia, it was almost a whole month before his female laid eggs the second time.  I hope I don't have to wait that long!  I'll just feed her tons (like I've been doing) and see how it goes.
 
 

at least you're catching things now. Hopefully next time!!!!

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

good luck Jim - you'll pull this off!

BTW Jim, did you get the second pair, or are you still just operating with one?

I did get the 2nd pair Matt.  Please see:  http://www.mbisite.org/Forums/tm.aspx?m=65735
 

How are those eggs lookin' tonight?  Anything under the scope? 

Nothing but sad news, Matt.  I see nothing that looks like embryos developing.  I'll keep them tumbling, but so far, no joy.

She is looking kinda, but not terribly, gravid today, so I let the "gate" open for the first time since the last spawn.  Interesting, different behavior today.  He immediately started to "lead" her to his PVC caves, and after just a few seconds, she followed.  Next, she became the dominant, aggressive one, and she was chasing him from his PVC pipes!  He was very, very, very interested in her, flashing intense colors, but was also having to be timid and cautious, as she kept attacking him from the safety of his own caves.  She chased him from one cave to the next, and he played "keep away", until finally, she let him enter the same pipe as she was in.  They stayed together in the same pipe for probably 15-20 seconds, and then she came out, and was wanting to get back onto her side of the divider again.  He was still leading her back to his caves, and he was showing very little aggression towards her.  I netted her and put her back.
 
No eggs layed today.  Let's see what tomorrow brings!
 

Yesterday: 
Basically, a repeat of yesterday.
 
Today: 
FERTILIZED EGGS!!!!  FERTILIZED EGGS!!!!
 
This morning, their behavior was very unusual.  Both of them came out and greeted me at the glass.  The male usually does that when he's hungry, but the female is always pretty skittish.  Today, both of them came out and stayed out at the glass all excited.  I tried feeding them, but neither was interested in food.  She was looking pretty gravid, so, I opened the gate for them....
 
They both were swimming up, down, back, forth along the divider, but at first she didn't go through the gate.  The male now knows that the open gate PVC is where she appears from, and kept watching for her, but when she didn't make her appearance, he went through to her side.  THERE WAS NO AGGRESSION!  They simply chased each other in and out of her PVC caves.  It appeared as though they were being friendly with each other!  After watching this for just a minute or two, I netted him and put him back on his side of the divider, though, since I didn't want the eggs laid in her territory.
 
Just a few minutes later, she was on his side of the divider.  Again NO AGGRESSION!  After everything I've seen with these two before, it was hard to believe my eyes.  He kept leading her to the PVC cave with the one end capped, and it took several minutes of them both switching between the different caves, and him clearly leading her to the capped cave where he wanted her to lay, but they finally both went into that cave and stayed in there together for almost half an hour.  Once she came out and was trying to get back home, he stayed in the capped PVC cave.  I netted her and put her back on her side.
 
Very shortly after that, I noticed a small egg ball laying on the sand outside of any cave.  He was still hanging out in the capped PVC cave, but I looked with a flashlight, and there are no more eggs.  This egg ball  is probably about 1/2 to 2/3 the size of the last one she laid.  I quickly set up the tumbler, and have the eggs tumbling now:
 


 
I was really hoping that the male would tend the eggs, but such is life....  I'll have to see what I can do with them with the tumbler.  The last egg ball, which was not fertilized, stayed together quite nicely for several days in the tumbler, so we'll see how this one does as the eggs develop.  Since this is such a small egg ball, I'm disinclined to examine any of the eggs with the scope.  I think I'll simply observe them as they tumble, and see what color changes and other developmental changes I can observe with the naked eye.
 
Wish me luck.  I've still got a LONG way to go with these, but at least now I know a few more things about them.  First, they do appear to like to spawn mid-morning.  Second, when she is ready, I'll really know it, because of the absence of any aggression on the part of either one.  Third, this spawn was 13 days since the first spawn, and that gives me an idea of how often to expect the spawns.
 

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that's awesome! keep us updated!

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

Do you plan on keeping them together? I'd be very cautious. Just because they aren't showing aggression now doesn't mean it will stay that way. I found out the hard way.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Good heavens, NO!  The thought never entered my mind.

Congrats.  Next time leave the egg ball with the male, just to see...he may well have put it back into the tube.  I'd be concerned personally about using air to tumble...it seems WATER works better in marine artificial incubation.

Thanks for the suggestions, Matt.  For now, I'm keeping what I have set up.  What are your concerns about air?
 
FWIW, as you can see in the side view of my tumbler, I have a short length of vinyl tubing with some net mesh stretched over the top end and a rubber band securing the mest shoved into the neck of the funnel so as to make a screen to prevent the egg ball from falling into the neck (which was a problem before I did this).  The screen tends to cause the air to accumulate beneath it, and then it gets released in small "burps" about once per second.  The egg ball has been tumbling nicely for about 24 hours now.
 
I haven't removed any eggs to check with the microscope, but both last night, and this morning, I removed the egg ball with a spoon, and examined it briefly with a high-power magnifying glass.  As of this morning, I can definitely see embryos developing!  They are looking right on schedule, as far as the image Mindy found and posted here:  http://www.mbisite.org/Fo.ms/fb.ashx?m=64320  I'd say that last night, they were all looking like F or G, but this morning, they are more like K or L!
 
EDIT:  Looks like someone at Advanced Aquarist has, within the last 24 hours, noticed Mindy's link to their image, and is blocking access to it.  To see the image I mean, you now have to visit their site.  Here's the url:  http://www.advancedaquari...8/10/breeder#section-8
 

OK, so I broke down, and took a small sample to check with the microscope.  Definite embryo development:
 

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OK, now that I've sacrificed a few eggs to the microscope gods, the problem with using air to tumble the ball that Tal warned me about on MBI Chat last night is happening -- the egg ball is getting big air bubbles trapped inside it, making it bob on the surface.
 
SO, I've dusted off my Witt-style tumbler that I made way back when and documented on another breeding site, and now have them, well, not exactly tumbling, but more like levitating in the water: 
 

 
The eggs aren't really "tumbling", but a constant stream of water is flowing past the egg ball, and it is gently swaying to and fro.  I hope that is sufficient.
 
 

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Should be good Jim - I've noticed that as long as the "edges" are getting flow that will carry over - if you can actually get full rotation, that's even better.  
 

Awesome progress Jim!  It is so cool to almost hear your excitement!  Could you describe the water tumbler please?

Google the phrase "my version of witt's tumbler".  Should come up as the first link.

Got it, thanks!  It looks very much like the first air tumbler I ever made.  You mention it is described in Witt's book, I didn't notice before so I will have to take a closer look.

The water tumbler is consistently doing a very good job of keeping the egg ball suspended and awash with freshly oxygenated water.  This morning, examining the eggs with a high-power magnifying glass, I can see definite embryo development, right on schedule.  I can clearly see tails and rows of dots made up by the developing vertebrae.  I even saw some movement in a few of them!  There are some white eggs, too, but right now, the developing eggs appear to outnumber the white eggs by about a 2:1 ratio, at least.
 
I don't want to disturb the egg ball, and so am not going to sample any for microscope photos, but I did try to get some macro shots with the bellows.  I had a very hard time with lighting and focus, but here is the best shot I could get today in the limited time I had (blue arrows point at a couple of tails / spines that can be seen):
 

 
 

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now that's pretty cool. Nice share!

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

This. Is. Exciting!!!!!!!!!  Keep up the good work!!!! 
 

Jonathan Foster

FishEye Aquaculture

(evil cackles coming from this side of the scream).

After getting home from work tonight, I see that the white eggs are winning.  The still alive and viable eggs are exclusively on the bottom of the egg ball.  I'm pretty darn sure that there is simply not enough flow in my tumbler, and that I need to either increase the flow and/or re-engineer the tumbler altogether.  I've added a bit of Hydrogen Peroxide per the instructions on a Facebook chat session with an experienced breeder.  Those instructions were as follows:
 
Take 1 part 3% Hydrogen peroxide, and add that to 9 parts RO/DI water.  Mix well.  Add 1 ml of that to each 5 gallons of water in the system where the tumbler is.  NOTE:  this assumes the tumbler is in a separate, isolated system, and not part of a larger system, or in a display.  This dosage will give appx. 0.15 PPM of H2O2.  Dose as necessary, but do not exceed 0.5 PPM H2O2.
 
I've dosed 2 ml in the 5 gal system that the tumbler is in, for appx. 0.3 PPM H2O2.  We'll see if that helps.
 
As of tonight, there still are several eggs with clearly viable embryos inside them (I can see them moving from time to time), but it is only about 1/4 of the total egg number now, and perhaps even less than that.
 
We'll see if I get any of these to hatch.  If not, then maybe Dad will be able to do his job next time, and maybe "next time" will come soon....

See my flask tumbler here: http://www.mbisite.org/Forums/tm.aspx?&m=31899&mpage=2

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Jim for what it's worth, I've had much better success with dealing with fungus when I stopped using Hydrogen peroxide, and switched to Formalin.  More specifically, I've been using Kordon's Rid Ich Plus.  It contains Formalin @ 11.25% and malachite green.  Dosing is simple - 10 drops per gallon.  
 
It seemed that there were always different results from Hydrogen Peroxide be it for clowns, dotties, wrasses, basslets, etc.  Very, very rarely do I see fungus taking over eggs now, and those that are white don't spread with any kind of speed. 
 
Hope it helps!  (Oh and a 16oz bottle has lasted me nearly four months, and is still half full

Novice question:  Aren't you supposed to remove the white eggs?

You can for clowns and pelagic spawners - dotties and other fish that have an egg mass it is next to impossible to get the white ones out that are on the inside, unless you'd like to chop the mass up and surgically remove the fungus eggs.  
 
 
And it takes a long time too   
 

Yeah, the dottyback eggs are all tied together with this very strong thread that reminds me of spider web, it is so strong.
 
It's probably too late for this batch.  The whole ball is looking rather fuzzy white today.  There are a few viable eggs still, but I doubt they're going to make it until tomorrow night!  I'll add Malachite Green to the shopping list (I seem to remember reading somewhere that you can't get it in California, because of the Formalin being a carcinogen, but I may be mistaken).
 
The broodstock continues to do well, and she is plumping up again nicely.  I let her out to play today, and the male was doing tons of leading towards his cave, and showed very little aggression.  The female did just want to get back home, though -- she clearly isn't ready yet.  It is curious -- just like Matt has observed, once they make it through the PVC gate, they can't seem to find their way back home, even though they are circling the entrance that they just came through.  I always have to net them to get them back onto their own side, although sometimes the female will hide from the net in the male's PVC cave, and stay in there while I just move the cave over to her side, and then she swims out.

try methylene blue, it's what I used to use for angle fish eggs (fresh water).  It will aid in oxygen transport across the egg membrane as well.  I don't think MG does that.  If you are looking for it mixed with formalin, use that ick stop (I think that's what it's called), comes in a small blue-green plastic bottle.  Too bad you don't live by me, I have a pound of MG in my basement.

What dosage of MB?  What it says on the bottle?  Reason I ask is my wife got some MB from the LFS yesterday, and this morning I dosed at the recommended rate for preventing fungus in fish eggs (10 drops / gallon).  Turned the water DARK BLUE.  The movement in the eggs stopped.  Before the MB, I could see movement in some of the eggs almost continuously, and if I watched one egg, it would predictably move within a minute or so.  After the MB, no more movement.    After observing that, I did three 95% water changes with seasoned SW at the same SG and temp as the egg tank water.  Still, no more movement is being seen. 
 
EDIT:  Bear in mind, this batch was probably a lost cause anyway, but for the future, a safe and effective treatment protocol using Methylene Blue would be helpful, if anybody has one.
 
 

What is recommended is 1 to 3 ppm in the tank.  It will kill biofilter bacteria.  This should make a light to medium blue water, but you still should be able to see the eggs.  Don't know why your fish should be so sensitive to it, but it is usually added at the time the eggs are layed and concentration slowly decreases with time as the embryos develop.