Breeding Journal, Species: Pseudochromis tapeinosoma

I would stick with formalin (37%), 1mL formalin/1L saltwater for 15min. 

Jonathan Foster

FishEye Aquaculture

There may be something to my California formalin concern.  One LFS had Malachite Green, but it has no formalin.  Absolutely nobody has any medications that contain formalin.  I can probably order something online, and at the very least I'm certain that I can get some through the laboratory I work for.
 
On another note, I dusted off Witt's book tonight, looking for his tumbler reference I allude to in my old post on that other breeding site.  I re-read through the "Eggs & Incubation" chapter of his book.  Jeez.  Wish I had re-read that a week ago!  Just about all of the issues I've been wrestling with in the last couple of days are addressed there, in exquisite detail!
 
I read that chapter probably two years ago, but it meant nothing to me at the time, since I has so little breeding experience at the time.  It all means so much more to me now.  Reading is good.  Re-reading is sometimes even better!  I often rely too much on "the interwebs" for my info, and sometimes, like this time, neglect to use those big, heavy things on the bookshelf.  Doh!
 

They're spawning again as I'm writing this.  That makes eleven days since the last spawn.  Of course, fish breeder Murphy's Law has kicked in:  on Thursday (the night the hatch is expected), Jacquie and I will be leaving for Oahu!  Tal was right -- the one way to make sure they spawn is to go on vacation!
 
I have determined, like Matt, that they never seem to figure out how to get back to their own side through the PVC gate contraption that he designed, and that I've implemented.  Today, I simply remove the PVC gate entirely, leaving only a hole in the divider.  This morning, the male went on her side, but then was able to easily find his way back "home", and then went back and forth between sides with ease.  He was showing no aggression towards her, but rather, was enthusiastically "leading" her over to his side.  She wasn't in the mood this morning, though, and was somewhat aggressive towards him, but only slightly so.  This afternoon, she was at the divider again, and looking very plump, and just like the last time they spawned, she wasn't shy towards me at all, but rather, was coming up to the glass when I approached -- almost like she was begging me to open the gate!  (I actually got that feeling from her the last time they spawned.)  So, I did, and within a minute or so, she was on his side, being led into his capped PVC cave, and they almost immediately started spawning in there.  They've been in there for about 15 minutes now (I keep checking on them from across the room).
 
I guess I'll just have to let this be a "training" spawn for him, and hope that he tends the eggs instead of eating them, or if he does eat them, that this is one of the early spawns while he's working things out, since I won't be able to deal with the hatching fry, and our house/dog/fish sitter isn't going to be up to all that goes into dealing with dottyback larvae.  But now, I have an idea of what kind of time frame I'm looking at between spawns, and I also am getting much better at "reading" the fish, and knowing when they are ready to spawn.
EDIT:  They were in the PVC for about 25 minutes together, and then he came out, and she came out about 30 seconds later, and immediately went back on her side of the divider through the hole.  She had no problem finding her way back home.  He went back into the cave immedately.  I closed the gate, and will leave them alone now.

As of tonight, he's still tending the eggs, and hasn't eaten them.  So far, so good!

Do you have any pics that show the "divider" you set up for them?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Aside from the ones I posted early in this thread?  It's a standard Penn-Plax Tank-Divider for a 29 gallon from PetCo.  The only mod is the hole I cut into it for the PVC "gate".  I did modify the tank lid so that the "door" part of the lid that swivels up for feeding, etc. has an extra piece of plastic that is super-glued to the middle of it, right over the tank divider, to help secure that gap there, to help prevent any jumping from one side of the divider to the other.  Does that help?
 
The divider is basically a flexible piece of thin plastic perforated with many small holes.  It is held straight at all four sides with these rigid plastic pieces that clip over the edges.  There are metal clips that secure the top front and top back corners to the aquarium edge.  The gravel helps hold it in place at the bottom.

Ok, just making sure you didn't do anything different from the original plan.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

The only differences from the original photos are:  1)  I have a HOB filter for each side now, and not just the one side (overkill, I know, but still.... I was worried about how much the perforations would allow free flow from one side to the other, and since I have no clean up crew in this tank, and just the two fish, and I'm feeding like crazy, but it doesn't all get eaten... I thought I'd be extra safe), and 2)  I have recently simplified the PVC gate between the two sides, removing one ell, and just capping the single ell.  I could use just a plug and and a cap, but I have no right-sized plug handy.  Both fish are able to easily find their way home, if I simply remove the PVC obstruction altogether.  With Matt's basically "U" shaped tunnel, both fish could find their way out from their side to the other side, but never could figure out how to get back home.  The "U" shaped PVC gate is maze-like enough to confound them, when stressed, which they invariably are when they are on the "wrong" side of the divider, and trying to get back home.  If you read Matt's journals about similar species, he observed the same phenomenon, and always had to net his female to get her back into her breeder basket, and 3)  I did add another piece of PVC that is capped on one end, and restricted on the other end with a smaller piece of PVC hammered into it, for the spawning cave.  That is the one cave that the male has chosen as the place for the spawning to occur, just like the books say he should.

Day 3 now, and the male is still tending the eggs.  He seems to want to be a good Dad. 
 
Just for giggles, I have one of my 2 gallon kriesels set up that has a very, very dense Apocyclops culture and some live green water.  Tomorrow night, at lights out (day 4), the fish sitter is going to see if she can get the egg ball out of the PVC, and place it in the kriesel, and keep it in the dark.  If the eggs are developing and on schedule, then they should start hatching almost immediately.  The circulation won't be great, but there will be a gentle flow due to the airline in the kriesel.  The fish sitter has instructions to check on them after 1-2 hours, and if she sees any larvae, to turn the filtered light on, and leave it on 24/7 until I return. 
 
This approach may or may not be successful, but at least it is better than doing nothing, which would guarantee certain failure.  Let's just start with seeing if we get any larvae hatching, and take it from there!
 

My fridmani would hatch if I pulled them on day 4 and put them under a bright light. Usually within 10-15 minutes. They don't hatch in the dark like clowns.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Interesting observation.  It differs from what I found in the following Pseudochromis Hatch Reports:
 
http://www.mbisite.org/HReview.aspx?ID=31

http://www.mbisite.org/HReview.aspx?ID=139

http://www.mbisite.org/HReview.aspx?ID=163

http://www.mbisite.org/HReview.aspx?ID=164

http://www.mbisite.org/HReview.aspx?ID=199

And also from what I read in Breeding the Orchid Dottyback by Martin A. Moe, Jr., on pages 59 and 61.
 
Maybe the timing post spawn is what matters, and not the darkness of the 4th night?
 
 

Dunno why but it always worked for me, like clockwork.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

 
Exactly.

I meant the timing after placing them in the hatcher under the light, not the number of hours post-spawn. That didn't seem to matter much as long as it was on the 4th day.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Long-distance (3,600 + miles) report of a hatch!  The fish sitter put the egg ball into the kreisel after lights out, and per my instructions, agitated it a bit with a turkey baster.  Checking back after about an hour, she reported seeing, "small, translucent things, longer than the copepods, with two silvery eyes."  She has added 5 drops of AmQuel Plus, has turned the light on and will leave it on 24/7, and will remove whatever is left of the egg ball in the morning. 
 
There are plenty of copepods in there, for sure.  There's also plenty of live phyto in there, and the SG was about 33 PPT before I left.  The fish sitter has instructions to dose 5 drops per day of AmQuel Plus.  I'll be returning on the 14th.
 
Wish the larvae good luck!
 

If that works, your fish sitter may charge a plus from now on. Good luck !

Anderson.

Fish keeper reports some dead larvae on the bottom today, but many still alive.  I had her turkey baste out the dead ones.  She reports that the live ones, "...swim mostly near the top of the fishbowl, and they will dart forward very quickly, then swim more slowly, then dart forward very quickly again."  Sounds like they are striking at the copepods!
 
It is challenging enough to try raising larval fish when fully present physically.  Doing so by "remote control" via cell phone from halfway across the Pacific is even more challenging.

Again, the fish keeper is reporting several larvae alive and apparently striking at food items tonight.  Good news still!  Time will tell what I will arrive home to late on February 14th.

awesome that you can do this remotely!

The fish sitter has been reporting daily.  She has been distressed at the fact that each day, she sees fewer and fewer larvae in the kriesel.  Tonight, she reports seeing only one, but she also reports that is it appears to be swimming differently than before.  The difference she reports is that previously, the larvae seem to be floating in the current of the kriesel, and only actively swimming to strike at food.  Tonight, she reports that the one larvae she sees appears to be swimming under its own power, and of its own volition, as opposed to simply floating with the current of the kriesel.
 
It will be interesting to see what I come home to tomorrow.
 

It only takes one.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

By the time I got home about 1:00 AM PST this morning, there were no larvae left that I could see.   Bummers, but at least the fish sitter got at least one of them to 4 days.  That's a start, I guess.  The female is looking nice and plump, and will probably be ready to spawn again in just a day or two or three.  This time, I'll be around to (I hope) do a more proper job of caring for them.

Another spawn today, 12 days since the last spawn.  Very much the same behavior as the last spawn.  They went almost immediately into the spawning PVC cave, and stayed there together for about 1/2 hour, and then she almost immediately left through the hole in the divider back to her side.  This time, I plan on using the BRT, copepods, and live ISO greenwater.  I'm back from vacation, but have come down with the flu now, so I'll have time to do lots of reading (and re-reading) between now and then.  Moe's dottyback book and forum posts on the reading list for the next few days!

Did did a great job of caring for the eggs.  Tonight is night #4 for this spawn.  I've had a bunch of ASW that has been aging for almost 2 weeks while I was on vacation.  I've been doing multiple small water changes over the last few days in the broodstock tank.  I also prepared a bleached, dechlored, rinsed, and dried BRT with 5 gallons of the new, aged ASW.  Made sure the temperature of both tanks matched.  I set up a cut-down version of a brine shrimp hatcher/tumbler (brand new, thoroughly cleaned bottle, of course) in the BRT.  Airstone under the heater in the BRT.  Ready for lights out!
 
Right after lights out, I removed the egg ball, or what was left of it, and placed it into the tumbler in the BRT.  It was not so much an egg ball, as it was two or three loosely connected egg masses.  "Nets" as Tal referred to it in one of his dottyback journals.  The tumbling eggs were lit with a fluorescent strip light place right over the tumbler supported on some eggcrate that spanned the width of the BRT.  Within minutes, I saw the first larvae.  Within just about 5 to 10 minutes, I started seeing hundreds and hundreds of them!  Again taking my cues from Tal's suggestions, I stopped the air in the tumbler from time to time, let the eggs settle out, and turkey basted the larvae out of the tumbler and into the BRT proper, replacing the water I removed from the tumbler with BRT water.  I repeated this process for an hour or so, until it appeared that all of the eggs that were going to hatch did hatch, at which point I removed the tumbler and unhatched eggs.  There were very, very few unhatched eggs.
 
I took a dense culture of Apocyclops that I've been raising in a 2 gallon fishbowl (actually, these are the ones left from the last failed attempt by the fish sitter at raising them in the fishbowl kreisel -- the Apo left over from that experiment have done very, very well!) and sieved them out, and backwashed them into the BRT.  I also took about 500 ml of dense live Isochrysis and slowly dripped it in, 1 drop per second.  I'm leaving the lights on all night tonight, and will monitor the copepod density and phyto density closely.
 
EDIT:  I forgot to mention that I also added 2.5 ml of AmQuel Plus. 
 
I have some rotifers that are growing in one of my copepods buckets in the greenhouse outside, if I have to resort to using them, but I want to try to raise these larvae with copepods only, if possible.
 
Here are some images:
 
The eggs tumbling in the BRT:

 
A composite of stiched microscope images of one larvae:

 
The same larvae, taken with the DSLR and a lens on a bellows:

 
 

Attached Image(s)

Jim,
Those photos are excellent.
What software do you use to stich the images together?
 
Im I right that the microscope images are back lit and the DSLR images are top lit?

Darren,
 
Thanks.  The microscope image has some nuisance algae in the way, but I was too busy to care.  I used a program called "PhotoStitch" that came with my Canon Digital Rebel XT when I bought it about 6 years ago.  It is very easy to use.  PM me.  Both are back lit.

EDIT:  Using accidental double post from last night for my next update. 
 
After 8 hours, I awoke to run downstairs and check on the babies.  Looks like just about the same number swimming around as last night.  Check temp -- 81.5 F -- a little warm, but OK.  Check ammonia -- unmeasurable with API test kit -- yay! the AmQuel Plus and/or the Live Isochrysis are doing their jobs!  Check SG -- no appreciable evaporation since last night.  Check copepod density -- OH MY!  These larvae can EAT.  They have just about decimated the copepod population.  I've scrambled and gotten together another gallon or so of dense Apocyclops to sieve out and feed them, but I'm probably going to be in some serious trouble here in a short period of time, if the population of the larvae stays high.  I'd better start harvesting and enriching some rotifers from the buckets I have in the greenhouse!

Right about 48 hours post hatch.  There are fewer of them now, but certainly at LEAST 50% are still alive, and probably more like 75%.  The ammonia is staying at 0, and the only thing I've added in the last two days is more sieved copepods, and tonight, just about an hour ago, one gallons's worth of sieved rotifers from a rotifer culture I'm nursing along that has maybe 15 rots / ml right now.  The rots have been raised for the last day and a half on RGComplete, with no additional enrichment.  The Iso in the BRT has diminished somewhat, which tells me that the copepods must be eating it.  I'll add probably another 500 - 1000 ml of Iso tonight, since I'm sure the rotifers will be eating it up.  The SG has gone up by about .002 in the last two days, and I'll be topping off with some RO/DI tonight, too, to bring it back down a bit.  The temp is staying between 79 and 80.5 F.
 
I sacrificed one to the microscope gods tonight, but am too lazy to do the DSLR/Bellows thing.  This larva is not only larger, it is much more opaque than the newly hatched larva was.  I'll need to use the DSLR/Bellows for the future shots, to be sure.  Examining him with a powerful hand lens, I could clearly see a full gut.
 

Attached Image(s)

After feeding more Iso and topping off with some RO, I turned the lights out on them and went to bed.  Woke up this morning to almost all of them dead.  There are some still alive, but I'd say I'm down to far less than 100 now.
 
I can think of only two things that might have caused this: 
 
1)  The previous night, I also turned the lights out, but that was after staying up very late, and working until almost 4:30 AM, so they only had about 2 hours of "dark" before sunrise and lights from other tanks coming on nearby would have given them ambient light.  This time, they had a solid 7 hours of darkness.  Perhaps that is the main cause.  I have a heater with a red light in the BRT, and an airstone making a bubble curtain around that heater.  Perhaps the light draws them to the bubbles, which then do bad things to the larvae?
 
2)  I did use some older Iso as part of the feed last night.  It was "past its prime", as in it was probably close to crashing, but had not crashed yet.  Maybe that was the problem?  Ammonia still tests at zero.
 
Due to the ammonia test results, I suspect #1 more than #2.
 
Disappointed, but not devastated yet.  There's still some hope for getting at least one through in this batch.  If the parents keep to their schedule, I should have another spawn in about 5 days or so now, even if this one goes further south.
 
EDIT:  Note that the Iso and Top Off water were dripped, one drop per second, into the bubbles over the heater, and that the SG this morning is 1.025, down just 0.001 from last night.  It wasn't shock from too much or too quick top off. 

I lit my P. fridmani 24/7 until settlement but I was only feeding them rotifers at the time.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Why no rotifers Jim?  Copepods would be fine as a supplement, and rotifers certainly should work for the mainstay.  You saw how I did with Rotifers + Reed's pastes with Flavivertex....

Matt,  I did feed some rotifers on 2/23 (see post above).  My rationale was that they were eating the copepods, and growing, and had full guts.  My thought was that guts full of copepods > guts full of rotifers.  Maybe I'll do both on the next batch.
 
At this point, I'm down to just a couple of larvae from this hatch.  Since there are so few larvae, the copepods are doing VERY well, and I assume that they are adequate food for the few larvae left.  My maintenance the last few days has been mostly to just add RO/DI to deal with evaporation.  I do believe that the problem was somehow related to the long dark period.
 
The parents are due for another spawn in the next day or two.  I have another BRT that I can ready for that hatch, and I have adequate copepods and rotifers for that batch (I think).  I believe that I've learned from this batch, and hope to do better on the next one.  I seem to have good parent broodstock, with a very diligent and competent male to tend the eggs for me until hatch time.
 
Stay tuned!
 

Another spawn today, 12 days since the last spawn.  I opened the gate yesterday, but she was in no mood at all to go over onto his side.  He went over to her side, and repeatedly tried to lead her over to his side, but no go.  After about 10 minutes, he gave up and went back home.  Today, they spent the morning together at the divider, and when I opened the gate, she almost immediately went over to his side.  Within about 1 minute, she was in his capped PVC cave, and again, she stayed in there for about 20 minutes or so.  He was either in there with her, or guarding the entrance, the whole time.  Almost as soon as she exited the spawning cave, she returned to her side of the divider.
 
I have only one larvae left from the 2/21 hatch at this point.  I'll keep maintaining that BRT as long as that larvae survives.  I'll prepare another BRT for today's spawn.

With regards to die-off: Maybe pH change from the dark period and the live algae? O2 change from the same?

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

OK, it's official.  I'm an idiot.  I am officially too stupid to live.
 
I got mixed up between the hatch days of these dottybacks and the pipefish. 
 
I've spent the last two days again doing numerous small water changes on the broodstock tank to make the water in the broodstock tank as much like my new, aged ASW as possible.  Tonight, I got the BRT all set up, put about 5 gallons of the new, aged ASW into it, made sure temp and SG matched the broodstock tank, got the tumbler set up, rotifers and copepods ready, right after lights out, I pulled the eggs, and placed them in the tumbler.  I took a tiny sample to get some microscope pics of the eggs right before hatch.  Hmm.  These don't look quite ready.  Still large yolk sacks present.  Hmm.  No eggs hatching.  Hmm.
 
I check this journal, to discover the spawn happened on 29 February -- only three days ago!  Doh!  I quickly replaced the eggs into Dad's PVC cave.  The good news is, he is such a good Dad!  He's continuing to care for the eggs, and hasn't eaten them on me!
 
At least I got pictures of the eggs at 3 1/2 days (84 Hours Post Spawn).  Here they are:
 



 
Now, I have to go set up the snagger for the stupid pipes!
 

Attached Image(s)

Those are some lovely pictures, Jim. I hope the boy carries through with egg tending.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Thanks, Andy!  As of this morning, Dad is still doing his job.  He does look at me with a more jaundiced eye, though!

If his eyes are yellow then I have to ask, what have you been putting in the water? You know that peeing in the tank as an ammonia source is a bad idea, right?

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Thankfully, the eggs seem to have not suffered much due to my stupidity.  I got a good hatch tonight.
 
After the pointed questioning from Matt earlier in this thread, I'm feeding them BOTH copepods AND rotifers.  I'll use a combo of RotiGreen and live Iso for greenwater.  Lights on 24/7, of course.  I've replaced the in-BRT heater with a pair of flat seed starting heaters designed to be placed under seed flats.  They are 14W each.  I'll monitor temperatures, and add more heat if necessary.
 
Here are some images of a few eggs taken right before hatch tonight:
 

Attached Image(s)

I love how the fish use the gate, very cute!  Great pics too Jim.  Good luck with the new batch.