Breeding Journal, Species: unknown until development complete

General
Species: could be any number of different species that are in the tank will know once Larvae are raised              
Social Structure:  unknown till known what the eggs are 
Size of Individuals:  unknown as of right now 
Age of Individuals:  unknown as of right now 
Date added to Tank:  unknown as of right now 

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank:  3500gals 
Substrate Details:  1/4-1/2in of crushed coral 
Filtration Details:  Large sump system,2 XL PM aquatics skimmers, 2 XL bio towers filled with bio balls, Running Ozone at a rate of 320 ORP, and a sand filter. 
Water Changes:  150-200gal a day 
Water Temperature: 76-78                
Lighting:  8x 250w Mh with 8 65w PC
Lighting Cycle:  9am-1030pm 
Other Tank Inhabitants:  Many different Species.

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types:  Krill, Shrimp, Plankton, Day Smelt, Night Smelt, Mussels, Mysis, 
Feeding Schedule:  Once a day 

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn:  Spawn happens after lights out. 
Spawn Time of Day:  between 10pm-8am 
Dates of Consecutive Spawns:  Unknown
Courtship Details:  Unknown
Egg Size:  unsure of size working on a way to measure 
Egg Color:  Clear with a yellow/green yolk 
Egg Count:  I have been able to collect 3-50 eggs 12/15/11, 12/16/11, 12/17/11

Hatch Details
Hatch Date:  12-18-11
Hatch Time of Day:  They hatched sometime last night 8pm-7am
# Days after Spawn: 1 day after spawn                 
Larvae Description:  Larvae are still mostly clear, still have yellow/green yolk sack. Have formed a tail. There are also a couple of pigmentation spots formed look to be a black or darker color. Seem to sit in the water tail up and still. They then move around every so often. They are not found only at the top of the water but found at top and bottom and everywhere in between. 
Size of Larval Tank:  Small little plastic container. 
Substrate Details:  None                   
Other Tank Decor:  None 
Filtration Details:  No filtration present right now. Just an air tub with very light bubbling for movement. 1 bubble per sec. 
Lighting:  Ambient room Lighting  
Lighting Cycle:  8am-11pm give or take. 
Water Changes:  Daily so far. About 25%. 

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start: 
Days after Hatch: 
Date of Settlement End: 
Description of Fry: 

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature: 
Size of Grow-Out Tank: 
Substrate Details: 
Other Tank Decor: 
Filtration Details: 
Lighting: 
Lighting Cycle: 
Water Changes: 
Size at Transfer: 
Age at Transfer: 

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Additional Information

(No Pictures or Videos in the Section Please)
Miscellaneous Information:
Eggs where collected using an air fed surface skimmer. They are then transferred out of the collector into a small clear container. Where the eggs are looked at and counted. The eggs are then left in the container. I have the container floating in the back of another tank to keep the temperature at around 77-79. I have added an air tube just to keep the water moving. I also did a small water change and dripped new water in.  12-18-11 eggs hatched out. 25% water change done. Done with water from system adult fish are in.                



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Here is a picture of the egg collector being used 

Extended arms used to help extend surface area skimmed 

Here is a video of the egg collector in action 

Here is a picture of one of the eggs collected. 

Here is a picture of the setup I have for holding the eggs till they hatch. 

This should be an interesting journal!  Good luck!

Well guys great news! I have made it to the next step. It is nice how easy this is so far. I know it will get a lot harder really soon. But the good news is I had all most all the eggs hatch last night!

In this picture you can see that it still has no eyes or mouth. But the yolk is still there and there are some pigmentation stops showing up.  
 

Here are two videos of the 1 day old hatched larvae. You can see the tail developed. You can also see pigmentation spots and the yolk. You can also see the larvae move. This is a Prolarvae stage.  


 
 

They aren't Larvae until they have developed a eyes, mouth, digestive tract, anus and are feeding correct?

That is my understanding. Cool stuff!

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Good luck, this should be really exciting.  What are you planning on feeding them?

So what species do you have in there in pairs or groups that may be spawning ?

Anderson.

As for feeding I am not sure as of yet. Which means it is to late for this batch i think. Any suggestions? As for a complete stock list I have it and I will post it once I get a second to do so. Many different Tang, Angels, Groupers for starts there is about 100 fish in the tank.  

The current first food standard is rotifers.  But some fish, like some angels, won't take them as a first food.  It might be worth it to try some rotifers on these hatchling, just to see if they will feed on them.  That way you will at least know if rotifers might work to start with.

I have Parvocalanus if you want to try them.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

do you have any small pods you can try with the rotifers?

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

Here is a list a species with numbers being the first number in front of the Species and size being the second number after the species.  
 1 Angelfish, Blue (Holacanthus bermudensis)  12
1 Angelfish, Blue-Ring (Pomacanthus annularis) 15
1 Angelfish, Cortez (Pomacanthus zonipectus) 12
2 Angelfish, Gray (Pomacanthus arcuatus) 18
2 Angelfish, Koran (Pomacanthus semiciculatus) 10
1 Angelfish, Yellowbar (Pomacanthus maculosus)  13
1 Butterflyfish, Raccoon (Chaetodon lunula) 5
1 Damsel, Garibaldi (Hypsypops rubicunda) 9
1 Grouper, Black Edged (Epinephelus fasciatus) 13
1 Grouper, Blue Line (Cephalopholis formosa) 12
1 Grouper, Coral Hind (Cephalophlis miniata)  16
1 Grouper, Panther (Cromoleptes altivelis) 12
4 Jacks, Lookdown (Selene vomer) 14
10 Mono Argeantus (Monodactylus argenteus) 4
1 Pufferfish, Arothron Dog Face Grey (Arothron nigropunctatus) 9
1 Rabbitfish, Bicolor Foxface (Lo uspi) 6
2 Rabbitfish, Coral (Figanus corallinus) 7
8 Rabbitfish, Foxface (Siganus vulpinus)  6
1 Rabbitfish, Goldspotted (Siganus guttatus) 22
1 Rabbitfish, Magnificent (Siganus magnifica)  8
1 Rabbitfish, Masked (Siganus puellis) 11
5 Rabbitfish, Virgate (Siganus virgatus) 8
2 Rabbitfish, Yellow Blotch (Siganus guttatus) 12
7 Scat, Spotted (Scatophagus argus) 9
1 Snapper, Blue Line (Lutjanus kasmira)  14
6 Soldierfish, Redcoat (Sargocentron rubrum)  9
4 Squirrelfish, Saber (Sargocentron spiniferum) 12
3 Surgeonfish, Atlantic Blue Tang 10
11 Surgeonfish, Hippo Tang 7
2 Surgeonfish, Naso Tang 10
2 Surgeonfish, Purple Tang 5
11 Surgeonfish, Sailfin Tang 8
4 Surgeonfish, Unicorn Tang 20
2 Surgeonfish, Vlamingi Tang 16
7 Surgeonfish, Yellow Tang 5
1 Sweetlips, Golden Spotted 22
1 Sweetlips, Porkfish (Anisotremus virginicus) 9
1 Triggerfish, Clown (Balistodes conspicillum) 8
2 Triggerfish, White Lined (Melichthys niger)  7
1 Wrasse, Spanish Hogfish (Bodianus rufus)  9
2 Surgeonfish, Chocolate Tang 5
 
 
So as you can see there are many options at where these eggs could have come from. 

so anything with more than a 1 in front of it means you have more than 1, correct?

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

Yep and the number at the end is size

that's got to be a sweet tank setup! Any pics you can share of the system?

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

So is this simply a plastic bucket in a tank with a bubbling?  I.e. you've collected the eggs and they are then placed in this one and you see what pops out?  

yeah surprising that works. I would figure some sort of kriesel for them

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

Yes that is all I have done up to this point. They sit in the tank to maintain certain temp. They will be moving to something else soon thought.

http://www.calcofi.ucsd.edu/newhome/publications/CalCOFI_Reports/v21/pdfs/Vol_21_Ahlstrom___Moser.pdf
 
This has ID keys for pelagic larvae.

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

I would try them without the air bubbler. You'll get more hatching. Also, hydrogen peroxide baths for the eggs help tremendously.
 
Good luck!
 

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Well guys I have bad news. Today was day number three post hatch. I did not do anything to the larvae yesterday. Today I came to fine that about 10-15 of them where swimming around in my little bucket. I took a salinity reading and it was up at 35pp. So I decided to do a water change. I used water from the main system mixed with some fresh RODI water and did a small water change. I was hoping to get the salinity back to around 30pp.  I did the water change by dripping. I think I did the water change a bit to fast because after the water change I had lost about half of the larvae. I think the change in salinity and maybe the temperature difference may have shocked the larvae. I also ran some chem test to see how the water quality was NH3- 0.08 and NO2-0.107 not terrible but not perfect either. By the end of the day all larvae where dead. Record so far 3 days post hatch. I dont see a reason to do anything to the eggs right now as I am getting a go hatch rate out of what I am catching. I am losing a lot during day 2-3 and that could be because I was not able to top off and do a small water change on day two. Good news is the egg collector is in and should have more eggs tomorrow. Here is a picture of how far the little guys where developed by day 3.
 

Three days post-hatch is about normal for losing the prolarva. I would give Luis' system a try (in his angel thread?). That's what I'm going to try as soon as I get a little time.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

It's on this page: http://www.mbisite.org/Forums/tm.aspx?&m=52332&mpage=6

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

 
Nice link.  Thanks, Glen!

Hey guys it has been a little while since I have posted but there have been some upgrades. Here is the last batch of eggs and prolarvae 



I am moving away from the plastic cup into a flow through system. I have not used it yet as I have not been getting good egg collection. But here are some pictures. They are just easy black carry out containers. There are two of them. The top one will hold the eggs and Larvae I will drip water into the top one. There is a small cut that has a screen on it so the larvae and eggs will not flow out. The water will then fall into the next container. The water will fill up the container and then drip out of the holes in it. The water will then return to the system. Here are a couple pictures. 
Here is the top one with the drain and screen cover. 


Here is the bottom container. 


The egg crate is in there to space out the containers so the water can flow through. 
Here is a picture of the full setup. 

I have not yet used this system still waiting to get another collection of eggs. They will go into this new system. 

I am amazed with the dimensions of your tank,the size of a public aquarium display.Could you tell us more about it,its measures,is it made of concrete with window panels?
This tank will provide you with a wealth of eggs of many species.
The yellow sphere is the oil vacuole,not the yolk sac.
For some reason,we all in this site are finding the same prolarval mortality problem,and,as I said,solving this issue ,which I suspect the same in all cases,will open a new era in MO aquaculture. 

Very interesting link!Though not dealing much with tropical ornamental families.Of the pelagic eggs that we have seen,all have one oil globule,except for mandarins that lack it.It confirms that labrids have the globule at the front of the yolk sac as can be seen in Andys pics,while others have it at the rear.

This is the rule most scientists use.But not all of them,see in the link provided that the term prolarva is not used,they are called larvae since hatching.It is mostly a semantic issue.Pelagic eggs hatch in the embryonic stage,but they cant call an embryo to something that hatched and swims free!

How about a pic of the tank   Unless i missed it....? 

Well thanks to the MBI Workshop and Eric Cassiano for getting my motivation to get back on track with this project. Looking forward to getting some more updates on this project! 

Awesome!
 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

These look the same as the [blue tang prolarvae I have been working on.
[They have a similar shape and the eggs look like they are less than a day old.  I have only really seen two varieties of prolarvae so I might be wrong.
 
[If they are some sort of tang/surgeonfish then rotifers will be massively to big (about the same size as the entire head).
 
Thread and lots of pics here http://www.mbisite.org/Fo.ms/tm.aspx?m=63962 

Well guys. Following Todd and Erics advice from the Workshop. I put in a net to catch some eggs just to see what my egg collector was missing. I could not really tell how many where actually caught by the net. I did however end up with another 6-10 eggs which I put into another cup to hatch out. They look exactly the same as the eggs that have been collected before. I will be turning off all pumps and try net collecting tomorrow night. I am hoping Erics ideas of catching 1000s of eggs will be right! Will update once I know what I get tomorrow. 

Good luck Joe, excited to see what you catch!

Regarding the egg collector,is it fixed to something or free floating?
Water level is slightly above the edge of the horizontal cut in half pipes?

 
The collector is fixed and does not move around. The water level is in the middle of the pipes that are cut. This may change after talking to Eric at the MBI workshop he recommended to increase the drain size and to get rid of the the other pipes as it may not have a strong enough sucking to over power the drains on the aquarium. I dont know what I am going to do yet. 
 
Regarding my collection once turning off all the pumps in the system went well. I collected between 100-1000eggs. This took place on the full moon. I also was not able to turn the lights off till just after sunset. I let the fish do there thing for about an hour before I started collecting eggs. I used a net and just ran it over the surface of the aquarium. Fish that I saw showing signs of spawning where: Lookdowns, Saber Soilders, Atlantic Blue tangs, sailfins tang, yellows, hippos. Again I am not sure who was spawning or not. I will get a better count tomorrow and decide if I am going to ship to Eric and Matt down in FL.