Breeding Journal, Species: [Pterapogon kauderni]

General
Species: Pterapogon kauderni                     
Social Structure: 
Size of Individuals: 
Age of Individuals: 
Date added to Tank: 

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank: 
Substrate Details: 
Filtration Details: 
Water Changes: 
Water Temperature: 
Lighting: 
Lighting Cycle: 
Other Tank Inhabitants: 

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn: 
Spawn Time of Day: 
Dates of Consecutive Spawns: 
Courtship Details: 
Egg Size: 
Egg Color: 
Egg Count: 

Hatch Details
Hatch Date: 
Hatch Time of Day: 
# Days after Spawn: 
Larvae Description: 


Larval Tank Details
Temperature: 
Size of Larval Tank: 
Substrate Details: 
Other Tank Decor: 
Filtration Details: 
Lighting: 
Lighting Cycle: 
Water Changes: 

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start: 
Days after Hatch: 
Date of Settlement End: 
Description of Fry: 

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature: 
Size of Grow-Out Tank: 
Substrate Details: 
Other Tank Decor: 
Filtration Details: 
Lighting: 
Lighting Cycle: 
Water Changes: 
Size at Transfer: 
Age at Transfer: 

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Additional Information

(No Pictures or Videos in the Section Please)
Miscellaneous Information: 



You will be required to provide photographic or video evidence in this thread of each event submitted for the MBI Program.
If your thread does not contain these photos the MBI Committee will not be able to approve your reports. PHOTOS AND VIDEO S MUST BE PLACED IN ADDITIONAL POSTS, NEVER IN THE FIRST POST IN A JOURNAL.

Michelle  
 

? none of what I am typing in this journal is saving?

Michelle  
 

General
Species: Pterapogon kauderni
Social Structure: Mated pair, stay very close to each other
Size of Individuals: Male: 2-3" tail to nose, female slightly smaller (need to get accurate measurement though)
Age of Individuals: Unknown
Date added to Tank: December 21, 2011
-----
Ok, lol...my day just keeps getting better and better My journal is not saving. Any info anyone would like to provide, please give it a shot. My browser isn't blocking anything that I know of, I can type/add to others' posts...but the journal as soon as I click SAVE...it's gone. So I am going to do it on paper then fill it all in when I get it to save. Odd I know, but that seems to be how things are going after the holidays, lol.

Michelle  
 

Worked for me...

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

lol- wt*? This is so laughable at this point, considering my day- that I will sign off. I see where you added Tal, and I jumped on it thinking Cool.. Tal got in, let me slide right in there! Nope... lol- it flashes, I can see all of what I put- then immediately goes to the blank post (now with the species name) I give up- time for a cocktail if I drank, lol... Good night all. I will trouble shoot tomorrow, but for an update:
Banggai's are doing well- eating well. They are coming to the front of the tank when I come into the room for feeding- no more scooting behind the rocks...which is cool because I want to see them eat Setting up a new tank for them- pictures to follow tomorrow
So looks like I can post to my thread, just not my journal for now. Stay tuned, Same Fish News..Same Fish Station, lol yep, time for bed, I am officially delirious

Michelle  
 

No luck - haven't got a clue as to how I was able to add to my previous journal..but not this one. Not meant for me to have a journal yet, I guess Will keep writing/taking photos- and update when the good stuff happens, lol. Tried my home and work computers. Odd indeed

Michelle  
 

What Browser are you using?

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Internet Explorer. Checked cookies. Restarted computer again as suggested earlier. Tried entering the Date I added the fish as a test...nothing again. Very odd.

Michelle  
 

Michelle  
 

If the female looks like her belly is a very faint color (pink) very faint...does this mean she may be holding eggs? Or that she is well fed? Or something altogether different?

Michelle  
 

According to this : http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/v4_i4_marini/marini.htm I think I am watching a mating dance! Crap I have to wait til tomorrow to run and get batteries darnit! But excited all the same even if it's not, lol. Just got them moved into their new tank this evening, have been adjusting the heat/light..and the flow. Not sure if I should move the filter - or leave it as is and add a nano size powerhead to gently sway the algae on the opposite end of the tank. I will be taking the batteries out of the remote controls soon as the kid and hubby go to bed, hahaha... pics coming soon of my pretty pair

Michelle  
 

that's awesome!!! I need some babies!!!! lol

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

When I get my nursery tank set up I will let you know
Just checked on them- they are doing fine this morning. (ended up going to bed around midnight? As hubby and the kiddo had 3 different tv's going at the same time last night- grrr grabbing batteries by the bulk load today hahaha) Hope to see the "dance" on camera

Michelle  
 

If you still can't edit this journal try starting a new one. You can have more than one journal for any species. It's only reports that can only be filed once per species.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Tal- I just saw the above message- thank you- I will try that

Michelle  
 

I exchanged a filter last night, to see the flow I would get- and placed it on the Banggai's tank, flow was good, not turbulent, it was placed at the left side of the tank-flowing longways across to the right-where I have the sandbed/macro algae. All was good. Went to bed. Woke up this morning, and one of the Banggai's (the female from what I can see) is stressed, leaning on her side resting on a bed of macro. Top fin looks shredded like she was in a fight? The other one(male) is clear on the other side of the tank, sleeping behind the rocks. Only thing I can think of, is maybe she lodged herself between a rock and the intake of the filter?... but it isn't even that strong- it was what I had in the picasso tank.- Very odd. So now I am getting ready to leave for the day (work) and not sure if I should remove her, keep her in the tank (have turned the filter off just in case), not sure if the male would have done this- they have been so perfect since day 1. So odd. She just looks stressed. (?)

Michelle  
 

Correction: it is the male I have taken both out and placed in a small emergency tank for the day- will see what happens after work, I am leaning towards the filter as the culprit. I just hope he calms down. Very dark in color, leaning to one side due to one of his fins torn I think, and labored breathing. Sucky way to start my day...I will be worrying about them alllll day ...

Michelle  
 

Aww that stinks. I hope they are ok!

-Adam

Had my son check this afternoon after school....and I confirmed this evening after work: the male died. I am sad. It breaks my heart when I lose one of my fish And of course I am beating myself up about having changed the stupid filter, - that is the only thing I can think of that is the cause, the few people I spoke with briefly- all say the same thing- the female wouldn't have done it. Just so sad. No other damage, other than the top fin being shredded/gone. And the coloration- but that is due to stress...but from what? So- now I am contemplating on how to find her a new male. I do not want to put more than one in the tank and have her attacked in any way. I am - of course- getting rid of the possibility of the filter doing the same thing, I am putting a guard around it. But the intake is not strong, that is what is so darn puzzling.

Michelle  
 

Ok.... so I was told the best way to introduce a new male is to put them both in the same tank, with a divider until they seem they are ok with each other. Going to do this. I (was) going to wait until we move. But I do not want to wait- I was enjoying this pair so much- I want to have them. Question- how many is too many in a tank of what size? I just picked up a new magazine while at dinner last night, (thumbing thru it while waiting for our food, low and behold our waiter is a reefer! haha) and I always see photos of large groups of Banggais..... in a 20L - how many can safely be kept. I am thinking just 1 pair, right? But in a 55 gallon.... can I keep a group of say...3 pairs? Is that too much? I would like to have a small community of them, but I do not want to overcrowd them. Any opinions out there this morning?

Michelle  
 

If you were going with a species tank (just cardinals) a group of mixed sizes (2-4") in the 6-8 range should be fine. I've got 6 (2-3") in a 30 with a 3" marine betta/ comet and there is no aggression.  I do worry the comet may start to snack on the small ones tho

Oh yes- it will be a species only - no other fish (although I have seen photos of a clown goby in with the cardinals. and was considering that as they are very peaceful ..) but in my tank, it will be the Banggai's, a few snails, a few shrimp (the ghost shrimp were reproducing in there) and, a few blue leg's - no other fish to cause stress...and I have removed that da*n filter.
 
Not going to use a hob on this tank for them-do not want to take another chance of what happened. I have actually put the survivor into a sectioned tank I have a pair of clowns in - and she is doing very well- socialized right off the bat- and there is a male mandarin in there as well.. something to think about when I think of adding to the tank.
But for now, for awhile- it will be Banggai's only.
 
I have taken down their tank- and am cleaning it out - I am redoing the whole concept of it- as I read an article, mentioning mangroves.. so I would like to try to create something that is extremely pleasing to both the fish, and the onlooker - it will be a work in progress, but I have a pair I will be picking up on Tuesday- to be kept in a 10gal temp tank for now- until everything is ready. I thought about waiting until the move - but I can't. I fell in love with my pair, and I miss seeing them so I want to get another and enjoy them as well.
 
And I have ordered a Fluval for this tank. - no intake to suck them up- I will do something with the filter to prevent any suck-up-age,

Michelle  
 

I am happy with the 6-8 range and will keep an eye out so I can introduce them at the same time..... question though, if breeding- would a female take on more than one male if there are multiple pairs in the tank? Or would the males stay with the female they have paired up with only?

Michelle  
 

Turns out the young pair I had....were actually two males.
Came home and found one looking worse for the wear, took him out, but he did not make it through the night.
The other one is swimming around triumphantly as though what he did was a good thing
 
I am heading to the lfs Saturday- after a loooong hiatus, and will see if I can find a match for this stud, lol

Michelle  
 

Ok- correction to above-
what I had was 2 FEMALES.
I have since picked up a male banggai on Sunday- June 24th, and have been watching them closely. They have bonded well together. They are in the biocube until my tank area is complete, and I have their tank set up complete with rock/caulerpa/etc. So far, they are fine in their temporary tank. The female looks like she may be holding.... but it is too early, right? They have only been together a week. But she is bulging. They have both been feeding VERY well, in fact over fed - as evidenced of the small algae in tank- but I am doing that on purpose, as it has brought a smorgasbourd of copepods and such- breeding grounds for the food, lol! The banggai babies will have food waiting for them
Here is a little video I took when I got them: 

 
 

(just wanted to plug this post in , as I have been holding my breath for them - and it seems as though they are doing well.
The only thing, today I noticed not such a voracious appetite, and the female is twitching - alot. So I am hoping she may release if she is in fact holding  - also- she almost has aslight tint of pink to her belly/back area, could this be eggs inside? The male is staying close to her, doesn't go far.

Michelle  
 

Looks like they're eating well.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Yes they are, Tal- they seem to be doing fine, so I am sooo happy
(the 1st video I have tried to edit it twice, it is not the one from 6/24/2012 - but if you link to my youtube channel you will see the other video )
She is still twitching and he has not left her side.
So far I have been mixing their food up- with something different each feeding- however, they do not like the small carnivore food. Hmm not sure why- but they don't.

Michelle  
 

Ok- trying to get some feedback guys and gals - have like 3 days of film (7/5/2012 - 7/7/2012), and need to narrow it down, lol- but...... they did the dance!
 (happy happy joy joy dancing around whoo hoo!)
Eh hem back to reality.
How long, from the mating (dance) itself until the spawning/release/transfer of eggs?
She looks bottom heavy, and her color is still the same- pink tinted portion- he is being powedfed, and his mouth seems to be more 'bulbous' more squared off...sometimes he eats- sometimes he ignores the food or spits it out and goes right to her side.... but how long usually, in anyone's given experience does it take to see eggs? I had wanted to get it on video- but not sure if I will be able to. And from what I am finding- it is "early" afternoon when it happens? I was kind of hoping after work if I can get her on my schedule lol.
Anyone have an opinion they want to share? I am living in this fish room until I see eggs darnit

Michelle  
 

One of my pairs danced for about a month before they spawned.  Another pair I never saw dance before they spawned.  They were just a female and a male I put together, and then BAM mouthful.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

Ugh you're killlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllling me, lol!
I have been woo-ing them , lol- Come Hither music in the background, dim lighting, hahaha enough already - the male better hold the eggs, I don't know if I can handle this and not see it to the end, I want to hand out little baby cigars lol
 
Seriously though- I have been keeping notes on the side, I am afraid if I post it I will jinx myself.

 
(Ok- all fins crossed for Boris & Natasha to make little minions heeheehee)

Michelle  
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpMc6Olfwbw

 
Small.....but it's a start

Michelle  
 

Goood Luuck!!!

check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
Captive bred clownfish and more
(Wholesale to the trade.)

Awesome! Shouldn't you be playing south Pacific music though?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Woohoo!  Well done.  Good luck, I'm not having much...

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

 
lol- "I" like caribbean calypso, reggae, dancehall music, and thus my fish do too, heehee they be jammin' mon!
It got them in the mood anyway, lol

Michelle  
 

Thank you for the good luck wishes, I am taking them and holding them tight!
So far - so good. The male is doing well at shifting the eggs, as you can see in the video. I feel bad, though- feeding the female in front of him- like I am ignoring him... SO I have started doing something different, and even if it is all in my head, and doesn't do a lick for him- it makes me feel better, lol.
Here is Day 2 :

Michelle  
 

Question--- how to get the aiptasia out of the tank? Thought of adding a couple of peppermints, but don't want to run the risk of the pair eating the shrimp...seems my glass shrimp which was HUGE and carrying eggs is now M.I.A. I am not adding to or taking away just yet, as I don't want to interrupt their routine.
 
Also- when it comes time to remove the babies.... what is the BEST way to do this? I am concerned about keeping them in the biocube, with the filter. So I will want to move them to their own set up... If I place a breeders net, with some fake plants and an urchin at the bottom of the tank, I am hoping they will swim to it, and I can just pull the whole thing up to transfer... yay or nay?

Michelle  
 

Aptasia and cards seen to go hand in hand.  I have had pepps in with the bangs before without issue.  The aptasia is what ended up killing the peps.  They grew faster than they got eaten.
 
Although I would imagine small peps would be eaten.
 
As far as removing babies, the best way is to move the male to a seperate tank before release.  Don't use a net unless you are wanting the male to spit.  I always use a clear container like the ones you see at the fish store when they are bagging up fish.  Carefully and SLOWLY move it so he swims into it.  Some patience is required, but I have done many many batches this way with perfect success.  Move male to fry tank, watch for babies.
 
You will have some time to remove the father after release, this is what I have found is pretty consistent among my pairs.
 
Male holds X days
28 days 18-24 hours before he eats
29-30 days 8-12 hours before he eats
31+ days very shortly after release 2-6 hours
 
I am sure temp of water during holding effects this, I keep 79-80.
 
Anycase, hope that helps.

Great info, thanks- yeah I was concerned how soon he would eat- I like that idea, I will move him if I am able, and power feed him prior to putting him back in with the female. Thanks for sharing
So far..day 3.. looking good

Michelle  
 

My males have always eaten within a few hours of being stripped or releasing the fry on their own.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]