Kathy's new growout system build.

Hi all,
I have my original 4-5 tank growout system that is 6 years old, and frankly, I've outgrown it.  It had a very sturdy table with 4 squat 20gallon tanks by Oceanic.  The tanks are very sturdy, very heavy, and they came with the overflow already drilled, a big advantage, and they were free, a huge advantage, but they take a lot of square footage, with the emphasis on square. They are more than a foot in each direction. Not frugal with the space, and that's what I lack the most. Space.
 
Another reason to tear down the old system is that the sump, under the table, is neary impossible to get to.  The table is low enough, that if I turn my head sideways, and take my glasses off, I can get my head over one edge of the sump to see inside it, as long as I am in a fetal position under the table. Of course, without my glasses, I can't see anything.   As I am now 6 years and some pounds older than when I built this system, it is increasingly difficult to do what must be done for the sump.  After selling all the fish and draining and removing the tanks, I was able to disconnect and move the sump to clean it.  It had about an inch of pudding at the bottom, consisting, I am guessing, of dead bacteria from the wet/dry.
 
Things I am learning:  I had a false floor under the sump, because my basement is rather close to the water table, and when it rains a lot, we get water on the floor from seepage.  I didn't want water to get under the sump and grow mildew there.  The false floor has a lot of plastic feet on one side, and fiberboard on the other side, coated with something.  The acrylic sump sat on styrofoam on top of the fiberboard.  Upon dismantling the sandwich, I could not help but notice the fungus growing on the boards.  In contrast, the table itself, constructed of 2x4 pine boards and plywood, and subject to several accidental overflows of the tanks sitting on top of it, looked good as new, once I cleared off the salt creep.  The difference is, I had painted the table with Porch and Floor paint, and I had failed to do this for the false floor.  The sump never overflowed, but the ambient humidity must have given the sump false floor is moldy population.  I am treating these floor boards with bleach and then I'll paint them before reinstalling the sump.  It is said that saltwater preserves wood, and I guess it does, but it does not protect against mildew.  I'll be painting everything in the new build.
 
I have some 20 gallon breeders (12.5 inch by 30.25 inch) that were in an aquarium store that closed.  I was going to lease some space and really expand at one point, but then I was offered a job, and so I did that instead. Now I am unemployed again, and I guess I've decided that I really don't want to work on fish outside the home.  I love that i can just walk downstairs to fool around with the fish.  So for right now, I'm just trying to make the best of what I have.  I got these tanks in exchange for fish, and at a deeply discounted price, so they were practically free. A friend helped me drill them. They were stored under our house for the past two years in a crawl space.
 
I had to cut the table in 2 to get it out of the basement, as my husband has a bad back, we have a lot more stuff in the basement, than we did 6 years ago, to maneuver around, and I'm not Hercules.  In my ignorance, I had overbuilt it, using twice as much wood as necessary.  It was a good sturdy table.  My son and I carried the pieces out.
 
I gave a lot of serious thought to using a prefab shelving system, either metal or plastic.  The plastic ones are not strong enough, and the shelves are at a fixed distance from each other.  The metal ones are subject to rust, and the really sturdy ones are too big.
I decided to build my own. We have new battery packs for the circular saw and drill, so I should be able to do this.  I bought a dozen straight 2x4s for a ridiculously small amount of money, loaded them into the Prius, and drove them home. They are on my garage floor right now.
 
My husband encouraged me to work out the details with SketchUp.  After a long struggle, I did.  Let's see if I can post it.

Let's see if this works...

So that's 10 x 20 gallon breeder tanks, with access to the sump.  Big improvement over 4 20 gallon tanks.  The top of the topmost tank is as tall as I am. I'll have to use a step stool to really work up there, but growout tanks don't need daily work, so I think its alright.
 
I plan to eventually build something over the sump to let me have flexibility with containers, like BRTs, 10 gallon tanks, etc. but those plans are not yet firm.  What is sure is that I'll have at least a foot of headroom over the sump, just because that's what I want.
 
I plan to use K1 Kaldnes media as a fluidized filter within the sump.  That's the key to making this double decker tank setup work.  The sump is low, and the filtration is within it.  That keeps everything else lower to the ground, and fitting in my basement.
I might make it even lower, if i can bring it a couple of inches away from the sump.  I just want the flexibility for power cords and tubing to fit between. I never know what I may decide to do...

sounds like a great plan!!!!

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

Gotta love SketchUp, you did better than me with it. I love how you can spin it around and look at it from all angles.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

 I got the dado structure idea from Ted's Fish Room website.  Ted is a freshwater guy who is more handy with the power tools than I am.  In fact I only handle the power tools when I am building an aquarium stand.
 
The first one I built from 2x4s, using roughly twice as much wood as needed, and lots of joist hangers and angle irons as well as 2x4 braces just to keep everything square and standing.  It held 4x 20 gallon tanks, it was  monster, but it worked for 6 years, and now it's in 2 pieces in my backyard, waiting for bulk pickup (trash) day. This new one I'm making probably uses less wood, but will hold 2.5 times as many 20 gallon tanks, and is going together much more simply and with less cost, even including the six 2x4s I cut crooked, and had to set aside.  The first dozen boards cost $24, the next 6, $12, and I already had the screws and porch paint.  I'm using outdoor deck screws, 2 inches long, because the drywall screws I've used on other basement stands are rusting shamelessly.  These screws won't rust, and if I can manage to avoid painting them, I'll be able to disassemble this rack should we ever need to move it.  It's going to be huge...
 
Anyway, while building it, I frequently wish there was an easier way, because I am not used to such physical labor, and right now there are parts that are aching that I didn't know I had.  The other options (premade shelving units) were not flexible enough to give me the space I want, and not cheap.  I don't mind paying for labor saving things, but if they don't deliver what I want, I mind.
 
What I didn't learn in college:
1. Two by Fours are really One and a half by Three and a half, mostly.
2. Some Two by Fours are skinnier than other Two by Fours.  If you are using a small piece to test the dado size, make sure it is from the same batch of wood that will be the long beam.  Fortunately, my beam piece of lumber was slightly fatter than my test piece, so the beam fit snuggly, or I could shave off a bit of the dado to make it fit snuggly.  If it had been narrower than the test piece, it would have fit loosely, and I would have had to make another trip to the lumberyard.
3. I learned "measure it twice, cut once", but nobody told me to "measure it twice, square it twice, cut once".  I finished cutting dados in all 6 uprights, only to find that I had cut them all slightly downhill, so the beam could not possibly have set level.  And if the beam isn't level, the tanks won't be level.  I'll use that wood for something else...
4.  When you make several parallel cuts in order to remove material from within a potential dado, one must make sure the cuts are all the way through.  (Partial cuts don't leave a nice surface.)  Then one can knock the bits out with a hammer, and that works more cleanly than a chizel.  It's kinda fun.
5.  19 year old sons are wonderfully helpful.
 
Surveying the splinters and cuts on my hands, and the sore muscles EVERYWHERE, I would say I've had a fairly productive day. All dados are cut and square.  It took just a little while to assemble one side using 3 uprights and 2 beams. I laid them out on the floor of the garage, and set the 20 gallon aquariums alongside the uprights to gauge how much room to allow on the beams for them.  I left about a quarter to an eigth inch between each tank and between each tank and upright, as a little wiggle room can be a great thing.  Then we discovered the beam didn't fit the dados, and had to do a little shaving of the dado, until we could bang the beam into place in the dado with a hammer.  The second beam went in more easily, but was still snug.  We drilled 2 holes in each junction, and screwed in the deck screws without stripping even one!
 
Tomorrow we finish the other side, cut the cross pieces (6) and paint everything, except the screw heads. When dry, finish the assembly, in place, in the basement.
 

Cool Kathy!  Waiting to see how it turns out!

Thanks, Mike, I'm waiting to see how yours turns out!
 

Dados = Ted's Fishroom = http://tedsfishroom.com/2011/04/20/aquarium-racks-in-a-fish-room/ 
 
Got to speak at Ted's club in Madison, WI back in October.  Great group of mostly FW aquarists, but a certain PJ Cardinalfish Breeder happens to reside there...

That's a nice rack!

Thanks Matt, now I want to take mine apart and rebuild everything....
 
Kathy everything is sounding very nice!

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

Ted not Todd.  Name corrected.  Thanks, Matt.

I have great respect for people who build enormous buildings.  Aquarium stands are all I can wrap my mind around.

Very cool!  I particularly like the "What I didn't learn in college:" section, it is all so true.  Take lots of photos for us :-)

We got everything done but the paint, and included 2 diagonal pieces to brace the sides.  This thing is rock solid, square and level and plumb. and I'm very excited to have jumped this hurdle.  More a mental hurdle than anything.  I am never sure I can do these kinds of things, and to see it now gives me a great sense of accomplishment.

Very happy to hear you are getting it done. Cant wait to see it finished.

That's awesome Kathy!!!! So happy.

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

 
cant wait to see them

 
It's funny that I found Ted's video a while back and said "I can do that"....went and borrowed a circular saw from one of my local club guys...and have now had ZERO time to build anything for the last month or so -  I was convinced I'd actually have TIME with this whole "being unemployed thing"!  
 
Glad to hear they're going together easy for you Kathy...makes me reinvigorated to just bite the bullet and MAKE the time to plan and build the racks I have to do.  Maybe later this month.

Kathy, since you are now expanding do you think it might be a good idea to run this rack as two systems?  Disease outbreak could wipe out 10 tanks of juvies...that's a lot of fishies!

Isn't "a sense of accomplishment" a wonderful thing?  Glad to hear you got a lot done, and that you are pleased with the results, Kathy!  Keep up the good work!

 I've thought of that. I've had only one disease outbreak in 6 years, and I know that I did not properly quarantine new fish I brought in, and that's what caused it.  The outbreak spread to both of my old systems, and it affected only the newly metamorphosized fish.
 
No matter how big the system, if I am letting in pathogens, I will lose fish.  I do have another system, so I am not putting all my eggs in one basket, but I feel like if I manage it well, I won't have a problem.  I can't limit myself to a bunch of small systems, increasing my work load, for fear that something might happen.
 
In addition, i do not depend on the fish for my income, so if I am out of business for a while, my family won't starve.
 
But thanks for the comment. That's why its good to post these things, to get another brain thinking on it, and not overlook something that could be important.  I know I'm taking a risk, but I think I understand what that risk is, so its OK,

And if I should find that I am having problems, it would be easy to convert the system to 2 sumps and split it up. It will also be easy to make a 5 gallon bucket sump to isolate a single tank should the need arise.

Here are your pictures:
Two things first.
1.  I intend this thread to be helpful, but you are on your own.  I take no responsibility if something goes wrong for you and I take no credit if something goes right, as well.
 
2. My husband really hates it when I wear these glasses around the house, but safety glasses are a must. Mine have bifocals, which I love.  One can take a picture of oneself, using a mirror, if you face the mirror and look at the reflection of the screen on the back of the camera:

 

Here is a dado after the cuts

I have 2 boards clamped together for the cuts.  My battery pack circular saw can't handle more than 2 at a time.

A chisel can help you excavate the bits out of dado, but a hammer leaves a cleaner finish and is more fun.

What happens when you do it wrong:

 
and with the test beam:

Measure twice, square twice, cut once.

It is good to clamp all the legs together to mark the cuts so that they will all be identical. Square twice, and make sure the ends of the boards are matching, and square to the side of the clamped block.
Make sure the cuts go all the way through.  I have a weak saw, so the cuts may not go all the way if I am not careful.

Here we are, assembled in situ.

It's hard to get a picture of such a big thing, in a crowded basement.
Here is a dado joint, and the diagonal brace at the end of the stand:

The diagonals that make this thing rock solid.

Also, another important tip.  The glass aquariums will rest solely on the two beams. Therefore, one wants the spacer boards that run perpendicular to the beam to be just a little lower than the beam.  Maybe an eighth of an inch lower. That way the spacer will not interfere with the tank sitting squarely on the beam.

So you don't think there's a need for a center brace, just for tank support? I'm sure it's fine, just curious.

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

I don't.  The corners need support but not the middle. I could be wrong, but I'm not adding more wood to this.
 

Thanks for answering Kathy!  Makes me think too.  When I designed my original growout system to have eighteen 20 gallon tanks people would strongly suggesting I split it into two systems, so I did change my plans, and bought double the stuff.  Now, months later I still don't have juvies (or eggs) and haven't bothered to build it!  Bah!  I'm going to build it smaller now anyway...

You've done more in a week than I've done in two months, I'm still disassembling! 
 
I have $300 worth of commercial; racks, and I'm trying to reuse them to some extent.  But I'm building a wood stand for four 40 gallon breeder tanks and they just don't make commercial shelving in 3 foot by 6 foot sections.  I'm thinking that custom-sized wood racks are still the best (used them for years until the last fish room redo).  You have me rethinking my sump setup under the custom rack now though.  I'm also less agile than I might need to be.
 
Looking forward to seeing how the filtration works in your system.  And more designs and pictures.
 
Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I find disassembling to be a hurdle as well.  I just did it little by little. 2 months to disassemble, 1 week to build that stand.  Someone with skill could have built it in a day, but I only do this once every few years.
According to Ted, any 2x4 beam longer than 4 feet needs an extra set of support legs, so you'll be building a 6 leg support system as well as me.

Just wait until you get old like me.  I can still get under the tanks to access the sump, but as I get older, I have less desire to do so.  Since I'm remodelling, I'm trying to design changes to make management of the system easier, in the hopes that I'll manage it better than last time.
 
Using my scraps and mistakes from the 10 tank stand build, I built a little two level table to sit alongside the big rack and hold reservoirs for top off water and water change saltwater.  I just have to cut the table surfaces out of the old systems table top, and paint everything.  My son and I painted the big rack on Thursday.
 

Kathy-- I tend to make my uprights out of doubled 2 x 4s. That way I can set it up so that any dado is a full 2 x 4 thick. And, I just make a square cut all the way across the 2x4, lay the crossbeam on top of the short board, then start over with a new 2 x 4 on top of that. _So_ much easier.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Same here.  Though it does double some of the wood cost.
 
Also, a 2x4 with the 4" dimension vertical can support about 4,000 pounds in a six foot span.  I don't use vertical supports at less than six foot lengths.  Lastly, I don't paint the racks anymore.  Wood doesn't rot quickly with salt water, and even fresh water will take 20 years to be structurally significant.  By that time I'll have rearranged several more times.  Or died from the frustration. 
 
Jeff

Yeah, but paint makes them look nicer.  I find if the fish room is pleasing to look at I'm more likely to spend time in there!  I am surprised how "weeny" some of you make your stands.  I over-built the crap out of mine!

That works too. I've done it. It's a choice.

Saltwater doesn't rot the wood, but humidity causes mildew.  Our basement is a wet one in the rainy season, and these wooden legs are sitting on concrete.  It is amazing what a coat of paint will do to prevent mildew.  It does make the system more attractive as well.
 
I just ordered the same led strip lights that Scott and Linda use.  A little pricey, but waterproof, and with a small footprint, energy efficient, and shouldn't need replacement for 6-12 years, so I think it's worth it.  I saw a similar thing at home depot, that cost more per foot, and it was a lot more bright than rope lights or under cabinet lights.  I am not that thrilled with the UC lights, as the bulbs burn out too soon and they are awkward
to install.
 
I think I'm going to like these:
 http://www.usledsupply.com/shop/12v-white-flex-strip.html