Planning a good homemade recipe - input please!

Ok, so apparently I have made some mistakes on my previous batches.  The fish love it, albeit they aren't keen on the greens I added to the last batch (spinach and red Ocean Nutrition seaweed).  This mix is for my several clownfish pairs (no one is spawning yet), Banggai, Dottybacks...
 
I definitely don't want to mix in prepared fish foods like brine shrimp, mysis, flake, etc as I like to feed these separately as I think varying the meals is important or the fish get picky.  I add Selcon and garlic drops to each feeding rather than in the mix.  I really like to use gelatin as a binder, and haven't read any reason to not include it, if anyone knows different please speak up!  Most of the seafood I can get is frozen simply because of my location.  Fresh seafood aside from fish filets is quite expensive here. 
 
I think I would like to make my mix of human grade seafood meats only, and would prefer to feed nori on a veggie clip that they can munch on during the day while I'm away.  Comments?
 
Here's my plan for my next batch, please comment!  LMK if I should have larger or smaller quantities of something.   
 
About 30% raw white shrimp (51-60 count), peeled, swimmerettes on.
Other 70% is equal-ish parts of:
 
Frozen squid
Frozen baby scallops (pricey, have to find it on sale)
Frozen capelin roe (I have to rinse the orange dye out of it)
Frozen pollock filets (they were on sale this week, so grabbed a package)
Fresh, live clams (the water is always gross...is it really a good idea to buy these live?)
 
1 packet of Knox unflavoured gelatin per 2 cups food mix.

I want to add salmon as well as I'm told it is very good to add (carotenoids and Oemga 3??), not sure what kind.  I see Sockeye, Atlantic, and Pacific.  I see Pacific is cheaper, and on sale all the time.  Atlantic is on sale right now.  Rarely see Sockeye on sale.  Which should I get?  Does it matter?

I'd still add a little nori to this.

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

Non farmed is what you want.  Wild caught   Anything less is inferior.

Glen, the trouble with that is that my fish have never liked to eat nori in the mix...they let it fall to the bottom.  I figured they would end up eating more if I left it on a clip so they can pick when they are bored/hungry and there is nothing better around.  Bad idea?
 
Thank Gresham!  There is no nutritional difference dependent on the type of salmon?

Not so much.  The main difference is between farmed and wild caught.  WC is still superior.

not sure. Everything I've read shows that algae is part of the clowns diet. I like having it in there. Every now and then I see my clowns eat it. They have never touched it off of a clip, but have when it's mixed in foods. I'm no expert though.

RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

I agree with what Gresh and Glen have said.  Use wild caught salmon, the omega 3's are higher and astaxanthins higher as well (highest in Sockeye with nice red color, so that is my choice).  I would also add nori for the clowns and banggais.  My clowns and banggais won't touch the lettus clip, but if I make ther nori pieces small enough, they will gulp down pieces of meat with nori pieces mixed in.  Not all my banggais will, but all the clowns do.  I also usually add mysis and brine shrimp to my mix as a source of chitin, which may aid with digestion.  I would also add a source of stabilized Vit C like
Pure MAGNESIUM ASCORBYL PHOSPHATE MAP Hint, check E-bay under cosmetics.  Also, check for blood clams in the asian grocery as well as red vegitable seaweed.  I usually also put in whole crab &/or lobster (especially the innerds).  For the same reason if you can get whole shrimp, I would go that route.  I won't tell you what else I put in it, because it is way over the top.  Just have fun, and try to keep everything is small chucks, and not pruied.

I used to make my own food, but found it not to be any cheaper than the regular fish foods available.  For the last year I have used Brine Shrimp, Spirulina Brine, Mysis, PE mysis, Bloodworms, Cyclop-eeze, Garlic, and Vitachem, along with Otoheim EP1&2.  The fish like it, it's super simple (no blender...), and the hatches are just as good as with home made food.

Glen, that's a good point.  I will test my broodstock with a veggie clip this week to see if they will eat it or not.  They are such pigs I can't imagine them not nibbling it...?
 
John, thanks for your input!  Oddly, I have a pair of clowns that won't touch the piece of meat if it has a bit of green on it, but my super fussy male Banggai will eat it!  Haha!  I think what I will try to do is puree the nori (the gelatin will hold it to to meats) instead of leaving the nori chunky.
 
I find if I mix everything (like BS and mysis) into he homemade food the fish get really dependent on it and won't eat anything else I offer them, so I like to switch things up from one meal to the next.
 
I will check out the vitamin c idea.  I do add FAF Vitamin mix at 1% by weight as suggested on the package.  I do have to make another order with FAF soon and I know they sell vitamin c, so maybe I will add that to the order.
 
Scott, yeah I understand you!  Putting it all together isn't cheap that's for sure.  However, I do buy almost everything on sale.  I'm constantly watching the flyers for good seafood deals.  I always make extra though and sell off at least 50% of each batch I make.  I make a few bucks off of that and it actually pays for the food I keep for myself, so essentially if I make a big batch it doesn't take much more effort or time, but it will make my food free.  Free is good! 

Ok- so I am not ashamed to say I have never - ever- heard of blood clams, and thus had to Google them, lol
How exactly are these prepared to prevent the problems listed :
http://www.vagabondish.com/worlds-deadliest-foods/
How would you prepare them for the recipe- if adding them to it- and what benefits would these offer the broodstock?

Michelle  
 

Also- the blood clams as a 'treat' or added to their daily mix?

Michelle  
 

Did you notice #10 on the list?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Any time you eat raw fish (sushi) you run the risk of getting Hep A.  But usually Hep A runs it course and you are immune for life afterwards.  I'm sure fish in the ocean are subjected to these and other viruses all the time, but I don't know if fish can contract the disease, and viruses are usually host specific.  I know butterflies love blood clams and mussels and really eat them up.  But clams (all), mussels, oysters and other shellfish are notorious for carrying Hepatitis A (and not just blood clams).
And good point Tal!

Good to know - thanks for the info. (not sure if I can find them here- but curious as to whether my stock would go for them or not. A couple pairs are seeming to be a bit fickle lately- taking notes to make a recipe to get them out of their finicky funk, lol)
 
Yeah- good ol' Mickey D's hit #10 on the list, lol.... but, (head bowed in shame) I still hit the drive thru every morning for my large Coke on the way to work, lol, with another @ lunch

Michelle  
 

Well today I stopped by one of the grocery stores that I don't normally go to (it's in the ghetto lol) because the flyer has some good prices on seafood.  I nabbed a couple pounds of frozen Wild Pacific Salmon for $6/lb, and a pound of New Zealand Mussels for $6.  They didn't have any of the Baby Bay Scallops that are on sale for $6/lb.  These are good prices for my area.  Some of you on the coast probably think these are steep prices!  Ha!

Prices sound good to me. I'd pick up some for myself too.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Prices are pretty good even for coastal communities, like where I live.  Heck, I pay $12 a pound for our local cod... when I can find it.
 
Now I am hungry and I have another hour at work, and NO FISH to eat at home

Woohoo!  Good to know!  Now I gotta go find those scallops!  *yuck*
 
I actually only like Cod, Halibut, and crab for myself.  Shrimp/Prawns are ok.

So I went to the seafood market all the way on he other wide of the city and they didn't have any "masago" capelin roe in stock.  Dangit.  However, the did have "Nori Pieces" that are 1.5" by about 7" long and I got a stack of them about 2" high for only $0.99!  Woohoo!
 
That leads me to a question...I have heard that capelin roe is "tha bomb" so I have been using it, but most of my fish won't eat it (too small to get their attention I think) unless the eggs are stuck together in the gelatin.  Now, the seafood market also sells "tobiko" flying fish roe (out of stock too argh) that according to Google is slightly larger.  Is this comparable to the capelin roe nutrition-wise?  It is quite a bit more pricey than capelin.
 
Another thing, where do I get lobster eggs from?  What's the difference between red and blackish (I've been Googling) lobster eggs?  I have seen a few people on here say good things about lobster eggs.  What's special about lobster eggs?  Size?  They look huge.  The seafood market people looked at me funny when I asked them for it. 
 
How about Nutramar Ova?  Where does that fit in regarding nutrition and size on the list of different roe?  I think Nutramar Ova is about the same size as capelin...or?

I'm not a fan of gelatin at all. My fish are much pickier about any food with gelatin in it, including ignoring it and letting it rot on the bottom. If your fish are picky eaters, you might try a round of food without it and see how you like it.
 
I make my own food, five gallons or so at a time. I find it to be enormously cheaper by volume than other frozen fish foods.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

By the way, if you can't get them to eat larger pieces of algae, try mixing some spirulina powder into your food.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Ohhh, thanks for reminding me Andy.  I have to get some spirulina powder.  I plan to powderize the nori.
 

 
The last, current batch of food I made I did not add enough gelatin, and thus it is really messy.  I have half a mind to throw the last of it out.  The batch before I had lots of gelatin (maybe too much).  My fish actually preferred that batch to the current one.  If I completely liquify the food and bind it with gelatin they will still eat it, they are actually less picky about it, and devour it better.  Maybe because it is one "flavor" then?  Go figure!   Thinking about that, I have half a mind to liquify the next batch then I suppose.  Hmm...I'm going to do that to a small portion and try it out again.

OMG, 5 gallons…you must have a large freezer.
 
I decided to try this recipe because it resembled other recipes and I was guided by some things I read on the Florida Aqua Farms site.  This recipe makes a convenient amount of food to store in my tiny freezer.  The cubes are easy to cut, so I can feed a quarter cube to my fish if I want, or defrost one or two cubes to feed a crowd.  
  
This is what I did last time:
I bought a bag of mixed frozen seafood at the Asian grocery store , $6
I bought gelatin and cod fillet at the usual grocery store, kelp at the health foods store, and I already had freeze dried spirulina fish food by Ocean Nutrition that I used in place of spirulina. Kelp and Naturose were the most expensive ingredients, but I have enough to make more food next time.
 
I waited until the family was going to be out of the house, on a day when I could open the windows, and use the automatic dishwasher.
 
I rinsed out the food processor to make sure there was no residual soap in there, and attached the fine grating attachment.  Then I grated the following frozen items picked from the mixed seafood bag:
18 grams shrimp
17 grams mussells and or clams
20 grams squid
20 grams scallops
and 30 grams cod fillet, previously frozen from the grocery store,
and put this mixture back in the freezer.
 
I heated about 1/2 cup non-chlorinated water to boiling in the microwave, and dissolved a packet of gelatin.  This took some stirring and reheating to accomplish.
When it had cooled to approximately 37C,  I mixed in the
4 grams spirulina food,
2 grams dried kelp
5 grams naturose
and it formed a dry-ish paste. Then I mixed this with the frozen grated food in a plastic freezer bag, kneading it in the bag until it looked uniform.
I sprayed some squares of egg crate with Pam, set them on small sheets of plastic, and mashed the food into the squares with a spatula and my fingers.  The food in its egg crate was slipped into ziplock freezer bags, and frozen.
 
This food pops off the egg crate with ease, and my fish seem to love it.  I would like to give this food credit for my newest spawning pair, but I think I am feeding more often and more reliably now that I am unemployed.  It does give my orange clownfish great color, and its true that fish who had stopped spawning because I cleaned their tank, resumed while this diet was available to them.
 

When I make it again, I want to try doubling the gelatin/water quantities to see if I get a more cohesive mixture. Right now the stuff falls apart when it hits the water and thaws.
The size of the particles is very small, so I may try grating half of the frozen mixed seafood on the fine grater, and use the next size bigger for the rest of the food.
 

Thanks for all the info Kathy!  Sounds a lot like my recipe.  I didn't think of adding Naturose to it though, it seems to dissolve and dye the food red.  You find it works ok with the frozen food rather than top dressing some pellets?  I'm having that same problem with my last batch not sticking together - not enough gelatin.  Plus my fish hate the spinach I put in the last batch.  The fish in my reef tank get fed a lot less, and they like the spinach no problem.  Haha.
 
Today I bought a manual meat grinder for $30 off the used classifieds.  I'm going to try it out tomorrow maybe to make sure the bites are small enough.  If not I could order a smaller plate for it.  I think I will get more uniform bites with the grinder.

A meat grinder! Interesting.  Let us know how it goes.
 
Adding Naturose to the frozen food seems to stick well enough to give the fish that glowing orange color.  I don't top dress the pellets I feed my brood stock, but I could.  I do topdress the pellets I feed my growing fish, at least until my present stocks run out, then I'll order Reeds TDO.  I've had problems with my stocks of Naturose going south before I could use it, so I think if I order TDO more frequently from Reed, I can have top quality Naturose all the time.  

Well, here it is...
 

Scallops
Wild Pacific Salmon
New Zealand Mussels
White Shrimp
Pollock
Squid
Nori
 
Total weight was 1100 grams I added two packs (dissolved in 1 cup of saltwater) of Knox plain gelatin.  I added 11 grams Florida Aqua Farms vitamin mix.  It's in the fridge right now for 2 hours, and then I will move it to the freezer overnight.  I will report whether I used enough gelatin or not (I hope so).

This batch is pretty heavy on the nori (a little goes a long way oops haha).  This time I put the nori through on its own, next time I will put the nori through a bit at a time along with the food so I don't overdo it like this time.  I actually added about 50% more (than shown in photo below) of the salmon, scallops, pollock, and mussels to try to dilute the nori a bit.  Haha.
 
I forgot to add a few cloves of garlic...dangit. 
 
This is what it looked like before grinding (1/5 of that bag of nori was used):

 
I soaked the nori in saltwater for a few seconds before putting it through the grinder:

 
The hole size on the grinder:

 
I smeared some on the cutting board to show bite size:

Looked yummy before you ground it up.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

It does look good! You made 10 times the amount of food that I did, but used only 2 times the amount of gelatin.  Please let us know how well it holds together.  I wonder if the larger sized pieces will do better with the lower amount of gelatin.

I did not use enough gelatin.    The meaty parts hold together quite well actually, but the nori goes flying off everywhere.  Kathy, the bites are actually fairly small because I put it through the grinder a second time (after I took the photo of the bite size).
 
The packets say that each packet will hold together 2 cups of fluid.  I estimated I had 4 cups of food, so I used 2 packets (all I had actually).  I did this last time too now that I think of it, and it wasn't enough then either...ha duh.

So, are you thawing it before feeding? I don't do that. My fish are all trained to gnaw at the broken-off frozen food cubes. That keeps mine together long enough that fish get it in before it breaks apart.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

My filefish eat a quarter cube of it that way.  I drop the frozen bit in the tank, and they attack it until its gone.  I thaw a cube or two and feed the rest of the 14 pairs of brood stock.

Hmm, I feed it thawed, and use a spoon to feed a little glob at a time.  Most of my fish prefer to eat from the surface, or close to the surface.  I'm thinking maybe if it is still frozen it will float?  That would be good.  I have a couple days' worth thawed right now, I will try it frozen in a couple days.  Thanks for the advice.

We do not use Nutrarose® as they do not sell it into our market anymore   We have our own source of Haematococcus.  What comes in (Nutrarose) is batches that do not meet the human grade standard and is sold to Asia (Singapore distributor) from what we've been told.  I guess some US people either import it, use human grade ($$$) or have an in with them that we don't.  Then again, we need batches of ~100kg.
 
FWIW it doesn't last long with any moisture, oxygen or temps above freezing so store it well.  If you need to store it, get both oxygen and moisture scavengers and add them to you air tight container.  If using a Mylar bag or zip lock, the seal is not O2 proof and it will degrade the product.  Heat sealing an all Mylar (with silver) bag (not clear, that is not 02 proof) is your best bet.  Keeping it out of light, with no moisture & oxygen in a freezer is the best way for people to keep it.

Hmm, my Naturose is in the fridge door in the clear container it came in.  Dangit.

Hey Kathy and Mindy, are you still preparing the home-made food ?
Any change in those recipe (specially the gelatin part) ?

Anderson.

I am almost out of food, and will be preparing a new batch.  I'm going to take a look at Kathy's gelatin amounts and go from there.  I'm using way too little.

I've been in a quandary about a pair of clownfish I have.  The female becomes visibly gravid, but the nests are countably small, like 2-6 eggs each time.  I consulted Joe Lichtenbert about this and he suggested adding fish eggs to their diet, as well as krill.  I prepared the following frozen mash, fed it to them, along with Nutramar Ova, separately, and they spawned a nest of about 50 or so eggs this time!  Thanks, Joe!
Basically, this mash is the same as last time, but without scallops because I was out of them, and with krill meal that I bought from Florida Aqua Farms.  I also bought gelatin from them and spiralina  powder, and I'm using it instead of the Spirulina food (Ocean Nutrition) that I used last time.  Spirulina is supposed to interfere with gelatin gelling, so I added it last.  Next time I may just mix it in, because I'm not sure this notion about gell inhibition is correct, or maybe I'll do a real experiment.
 
All weights approximate:
18.6 g gelatin in 1/2 cup RO type water, boiled (microwave).  If you are using RO, add a pinch of salt before you attempt to boil it, then sprinkle gelatin on top after it has boiled. Set it aside while you fix everything else, and mix well just before using.
 
Mixed in bowl:
  5 g kelp powder
12 g naturose
12 g krill meal
 
grated in food processor:
10 g shrimp
20 g mussels, clamms
30g squid
140 g fish(cod)
 
Mix everything together in a bowl, then add
 
9 g spirulina powder, added last.
 
The FAF gelatin dissolved without a struggle when sprinkled on top of the hot water. The gel was pretty good, I think. It also smelled better than Knox unflavored gelatin. I made cubes as before, and one flat frozen pack as well.  My fish seem to enjoy it, and I think the added spirulina is good for my angel fish.
 
 
 

I've prepared 500g of food this weekend.
Equal parts of squid, salmon, shrimp, clams and fish roe. I wasn't able to cut the squid in small enough bits as I did with the other ingredients so I put everything but the roe in the blender.
Added two cloves of garlic and two sheats of nori (blended as well).
I dissolved ~30g of unflavored gelatin (I wish it was odouress too) in half a cup of water and added it to the mix.
At the end, added the roe and put it in the fridge.
 
It became a good paste but not really firm (a bit of the roe still floats in the water after I add it to the tanks) but it looks and smells more yummy than the last one and the fishes are crazy about it so I may have done something right.
Maybe I'll add more gelatin in the future (2 packs = 50g), I have to ask the fishes first.
They will eat this paste + artemia (frozen adults and fresh nauplii) + mysis + TDO.

Anderson.

Well done Anderson, sounds like maybe you needed more gelatin.  One of us will figure out the right amount eventually!  LOL.  My fish also love, love, love the food!

Today's recipe was the same as last time mostly, fairly equals parts of:
 
Scallops
Wild Pacific Salmon
New Zealand Mussels
White Shrimp
Pollock
Whole baby squid (about 1/4 of a part)
Nori (5 sheets 6x1.5")
 
I put the squid through first thinking everything else would push things through, but all it did was clog up the meat grinder...ugh.  Hence, the food this time is minced very, very finely.  Next time I will chop it by hand, it's just too rubbery and tough.
 
This mixture weighed 812g, so I added 8.12g FAF Vitamin Mix.  This time I also added 3 ounces Selcon, 0.5mL Kent Garlic Extract, and 8g Naturose (it's fairly old).
 
Looking at Kathy's use of gelatin, I made what I think is about the same ratio of gelatin.  I used 1 gram of FAF Gelatin for every 30g of food, so I used 27g gelatin.  I mixed this with 1/2 cup of saltwater I microwaved until boiling.  I stirred this very well until it cooled a bit, then poured it in.  The Naturose immediately dissolved and the mixture is now bright red!  Next time, I will try mixing the gelatin mix in first, then add the Naturose as the very last ingredient.  I took a little glob and put it in the fridge to cool, once cooled I checked consistency and it was very gelatinous, so I bagged it all up and it's in the freezer now.
 
I fed the fish some of the scrapings from the bowl, and some of the fish were scared of the bright red food.  LOL.  I'm sure they'll get over it.  My reef fish (who aren't fed much and thus always hungry) ate it up viciously.
 
Fwiw, Knox gelatin stinks something awful and FAF gelatin doesn't stink.