maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ?

Author Message
r33fking
  • Total Posts : 112
  • Scores: 2
  • Reward points : 316
  • Joined: 3/10/2011
  • Location: Eugene, OR, US
maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ? - Thursday, January 12, 2012 8:45 PM
0
i have come across a pair of maroons . the female is a gold stripe and beautiful ! but she is an extreme misbar . 
she has like 1.2 stripes if i add them up ... the head stripe is more of a crown , small spot for a body stripe and a full tail stripe. the male is only an inch smaller then the female ( she is 4.5 inches ) and she was willing to pair with him right away !! the male is not a gold stripe and has beautiful full bars and a great body shape and color .
 
my question is if i pick this pair up would i be destined to get misbarred larvae ? 
i know premnas larvae are more susceptible to mis barring but within this genus is it more of a genetic trait than with amphiprion ocellaris?
i love this pair and would love to get them but i am worried about wasted time and money involved in producing mis barred babies .
i am also not sure how the gold stripe thing would work out ? 
your thoughts are appreciated greatly 
thanks ,
Aron
 
 
 

mPedersen
  • Total Posts : 3450
  • Scores: 29
  • Reward points : 1376
  • Joined: 2/27/2009
  • Location: Duluth, MN, US
Re:maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ? - Thursday, January 12, 2012 9:46 PM
1
GSMs lose their stripes as they age.  I would not pair a GSM with a WSM for several reasons.  You won't get misbarred larvae, you'll get what some (like myself) might consider "hybrid" larvae.

rgrking
  • Total Posts : 712
  • Scores: 22
  • Reward points : 446
  • Joined: 4/8/2011
  • Location: Sullivan, MO, US
Re:maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ? - Friday, January 13, 2012 8:50 AM
0
but would it really be a hybrid? Even the MBI classes it as one species.
http://www.mbisite.org/Search.aspx?Species=17
 
 
RLTW

180 Gallon Mixed Reef

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8

r33fking
  • Total Posts : 112
  • Scores: 2
  • Reward points : 316
  • Joined: 3/10/2011
  • Location: Eugene, OR, US
Re:maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ? - Friday, January 13, 2012 10:34 AM
5
do you meen the larvae will partial gold and white stripping ? a morph of both traits ?
same species I'm not sure how they would be true hybrids?
any pics of gsm/wsm crosses?

luis a m
  • Total Posts : 451
  • Scores: 2
  • Reward points : 1249
  • Joined: 3/15/2011
  • Location: Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, AR
Re:maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ? - Friday, January 13, 2012 2:03 PM
0
GSM usually show misbars in wild population,which other clowns rarely do.IME they have a mild attitude and are easy to pair off,unlike WSM.
They have a limited geographical range and have been given a specific status,though this is not followed by most publications.
Be they a good species or a subspecies or endemism,it is not a good idea to mix their genes with WSM.

mPedersen
  • Total Posts : 3450
  • Scores: 29
  • Reward points : 1376
  • Joined: 2/27/2009
  • Location: Duluth, MN, US
Re:maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ? - Friday, January 13, 2012 3:38 PM
0
Indeed, they are a "on the cusp" case of speciesdom.  We almost could make the case to treat them independently for several of the reasons Luis pointed out (I also believe that the Black Ocellaris is fundamentally different from Ocellaris, and the MBI does treat that one separately because there is actual fundamental breeding difficulty with that fish).  Indeed, keeping your geographic variants separate is important, if nothing else, because sometimes two fish from different geography, originally thought to be the same species, turn out to NOT be (Amphiprion akallopisos and A. pacificus for example).

Chelle's Ocean
  • Total Posts : 399
  • Scores: 0
  • Reward points : 242
  • Joined: 8/14/2010
  • Location: Inverness, FL, US
Re:maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ? - Friday, January 13, 2012 5:17 PM
0
I L.O.V.E. the fact that whatever I am thinking of or going through in any given day- I can pop onto MBI and find someone is already discussing it for me, lol!
 
I went to visit a LFS @ lunch- and there is a gorgeous female - HUGE- Gold Stripe, and a significantly smaller white stripe- I am considering pairing them up after I get them- and waiting for the smaller one to gain a bit of size before introducing them- here is my question- from what I was told- the smaller one is actually a GSM as well,{which is why I am wanting to pair them) just a juvi- and the stripes will turn (gold) in time.... (how do I know it is truly a GSM, and not just a juvi WSM?)
 
What signs can I look for specifically to know ? I have read the above- and do not want to mix the 2 together if they are two different types.... but how can I be 100% sure since the smaller one is still very small, and displaying white stripes?
 
(*note : this particular LFS I deal with said it is supposed to be, but both the fish have come from two different hobbyists' tanks... so he is going by what was told to him I am guessing. And he tries to be as honest as humanly possible about things- so I am wanting to scoop them up- I just don't want to be surprised down the road.)
 
Any ideas or tell tale signs for judging juvenile GSM's?
Michelle  
 

mPedersen
  • Total Posts : 3450
  • Scores: 29
  • Reward points : 1376
  • Joined: 2/27/2009
  • Location: Duluth, MN, US
Re:maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ? - Friday, January 13, 2012 6:48 PM
0
I don't have any ideas on how to ID an immature white stripe from an immature gold stripe...it takes a year for the yellow stripes to form.  Now, if the baby fish with white stripes was captive bred from a reputable breeder, then you could reasonably trust the varietal ID to be correct.  From what you describe above, the small WS fish seems suspect.

Duck
  • Total Posts : 466
  • Scores: 8
  • Reward points : 465
  • Joined: 12/14/2010
  • Location: Barrow in Furness, Cumberland
Re:maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ? - Saturday, January 14, 2012 8:58 AM
0
The only thing I can suggest on GSM Juveniles, is they do have a blueish hue to their stripes although some more than others, particularly on misbarred individuals.
 

luis a m
  • Total Posts : 451
  • Scores: 2
  • Reward points : 1249
  • Joined: 3/15/2011
  • Location: Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, AR
Re:maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ? - Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:30 PM
0
Stripes of YSM,besides being yellow,are very wide.While those of WSM,are very narrow.But juvs of YSM look like WSM

KathyL
  • Total Posts : 2639
  • Scores: 13
  • Reward points : 1504
  • Joined: 6/6/2010
  • Location: St. Louis, MO, US
Re:maroon clown mis bar question - genetic or not ? - Sunday, January 15, 2012 9:13 PM
0
How exactly are blacks more difficult than oranges?  I see some small differences, but …..not so much.