Shipping bags + density

Probably in the wrong forum, but heyho.
 
Finally getting my act together ready to start shipping fish wholesale stylee. Previously most of my progeny have gone locally, ie within an hours drive. So have been in large bags inside salt buckets, but pressures from myday jo, fuel prices and a need to hit more LFS further afield mean its tiem to broaden my horizons.
I have no real concerns about shipping have shipped corals/frags when i ran a reef on numerous occasions. And deal with couriers and shipping (dead) fish on a daily basis. Just want to make sure my customers receive there's in as good a condition as possible.
I have a good supply of poly boxes and oxygen at work.
Courier i need to finalise as most of the uk ones appear to be a bit funny about transporting fish.
 
My main issue is bag size and stocking density. Minimum order is about 20 fish, going up to 100-150. obviously bags in multiples say 25 or 50 would be ideal.
SO what sizes do you all use? need to get it right as wholesale options are 100, 500 or 1000 per box!
 
cheers

I'm about to do my first shipments of my Bluestripe pipefish to Dan & Abbie, and so I'm interested in this topic, too!

FWIW, I decided to use the 10" x 20" 3 mil bags from Aquatic Eco Systems here in the USA.  I shipped my first box today.  I only packed 16 fish per bag, two bags in the box, but I was being extremely timid, this being my first time shipping fish.  I used Kathy's post about shipping fish found here http://www.mbisite.org/Forums/fb.ashx?m=60151 as my basic guide.  I'll know tomorrow how things went!

Glad the post helped.  Hey, are those bags seam sealed so that there are no inside pockets? I would prefer to order from them, but one cannot tell how the seams are sealed from the picture.  Did you have any trouble sealing up the 3 mil bags?

I'm ignorant about what "seam sealed" means.  They are simply sealed in a straight line across the bottom, with no pleats of any kind.  The 3 mil is thick when twisting, twisting, but I used the thick green rubber bands from Aquatic Eco ( I won't tell you what they call them on the package -- YIKES! -- LOL)  with the tool they sell, and used two of those bands on each bag.  To avoid corners they could get trapped in, I bagged them in one bag and did the "twist, twist, twist, fold, rubber band, rubber band" thing, and then I put the inside bag into the outside bag rubber band end first, then sealed the outside bag just like the inside bag.  I then placed the doubled bag into the styro with the outside rubber band end pointing down, and the inside rubber band end was pointing up, to help keep the inside bag from leaking.
 
The overnight temp in Memphis was supposed to be 40F, and I used 4 of the smaller hand warmer "10 hour" chemical heat packs.
 
The fish arrived this morning just fine.  One bag was 76F, and the other was 77F.  The heat packs had fallen down to the bottom of the box, though, so it seems I didn't tape them well enough to the styro lid.
 
 

Thanks Jim,
Seam sealed refers to square  bottom bags that are sealed to have a square flat bottom when stood up and filled.  The seams are like an X with a bar between two pairs of legs:
>-<.  There is a way to do it, where there are no pockets that fish can nose into and suffocate.  And then there is the other way, which produces said pockets.  The ones from Gulf Coast Plastics are the seam sealed kind.
 
That said, when I ship smaller numbers of fish, like one or two, I do it the way Jim did it.

Those thick green bands…you know what they were designed for? Castration of farm animals.  Just a FYI.

What did you do about Oxygen?

-Adam

I used Oxygen from an O2 tank I purchased.  I got the tank from a local welding supply house -- the smallest one they had, 21 ft³ capacity, filled, ran me about $90.00.  The regulator I got from Aquatic Eco -- the "air filling kit", which comes with regulator, hose, and nozzle for $146.00.  This first shipment of fish is basically paying for the cost of getting set up to ship fish!

Gussetted or square bottom bags should be avoided like the plague.  When buying bags, only buy bags with (2) dimensions - 9 - 18, etc.
 
I seal 4mm with no issue using both bands and rubber bands.  Every shipment I sent out via wholesale was at least 4mm thick (for fish, double 2mm).  Coral shipments could be up to 8mm thick (4x 2mm).
 
Uline or Associated Bags are both good sources for bags.

Many welding places can get you set-up for much less for the reg / balloon filler (nozzle/hose).

 
Square bottom bags can be a problem, unless you get the kind that are sealed along ALL the seams, which is what i use.  I get them from Gulf Coast Plastics, and they are truly wonderful bags.   There are no dangerous pockets that the fish can get into.  Don't avoid these like the plague.

More seams = more failures.   There is a reason the commercial shippers do not use those

Some useful hints in there guys. I'd read Kathys post when doing a search.
I expect I will use normal 2dimensional bags, as sourcing 4D bags and price will likely negate there use.
 
I do need to find a trigger to fill the bags with, im lucky that I have access to oxygen cylinders at work...although they're not very managable, weighing in at 50kg and 5ft high!
 
only thing ive not settled on is bag size, hoping to visit a friends LFS that specialises in koi/pond fish, but that wont be for a few weeks.

to be honest, the trigger portion is really for convenience, you can get by without it in a pinch.  I helped out (for fun) at a small wholesaler that did not use anything but a reg and tube.  Turn on the air when needed.
 

I should follow up on my last post.
 
Failure rate in mass produced bags can be an entire sleeve at a time, or more.  If you are buying a case and get one bad sleeve, the manufacturer won't care usually.  They operate in a +/- manufacturing situation.
 
In order to not eat masses of bad bags, commercial shippers only use what is most reliable to produce.
 
FWIW I have gotten entire cases of gusseted bags with bad seals at connection points of seals (where they overlap).
 
 

a triggers not essential as you say, its just another gadget really. but found them for £4/$6 and work will be paying for it!
Spoke to an LFS today, they receive some stock in indivdual bags (from outside the uk) or from a UK wholesaler in larger bags of 10 fish.
 
interesting point you make about bags.

Ouch!dont say that,we know that,but it hurts to hearToo much info
I tie a knot in the bag,which is much simpler than rubber bands

And I have no idea what that's like, but it sounds awful...

You ought to possess what you dont to fully appreciate the feeling

I've got enough possessions as it is.  
 

Im from a farming back ground, that sorta thing doesnt affect me anymore.

This is used with lambs,poor things.