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•  Black O's changing back !?

  Author Message aomont Total Posts : 774 Scores: 0 Reward points : 1003 Joined: 2/12/2011 Location: Rio de Janeiro, RJ, BR Status: offline MBI: 5 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Black O's changing back !? Sunday, April 22, 2012 12:04 AM (permalink) 0 I have 2 pair of black ocellaris: Pair 1: Large (mean) female + small young male; Pair 2: "Ex-male" female + small young male.   A few months ago I change from New Life Spectrum pellets to TDO and now: Female 1 is developing orange color on her nose The same is happening to male 1 but at slower pace; Female 2 is developing orange color around her nose and on her dorsal and anal fins while male 2 is still jet balck (as they all used to be).   Have anyone experienced this ? Is it only linked to aditional astaxanthin ? Anderson.   #1 Fishtal Total Posts : 5467 Scores: 37 Reward points : 2908 Joined: 8/31/2006 Location: Waterford, MI, US Status: offline MBI: 585 Pnts MBI Site: MarineLife Aquarium Society of Michigan Re:Black O's changing back !? Sunday, April 22, 2012 12:10 AM (permalink) 0 Never had this happen. http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage "Making captive breeding easier."   #2 KathyL Total Posts : 2639 Scores: 13 Reward points : 1504 Joined: 6/6/2010 Location: St. Louis, MO, US Status: offline MBI: 1605 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Aquarium Societies of North America Re:Black O's changing back !? Sunday, April 22, 2012 9:49 PM (permalink) 0 I don't know for sure, but I suspect water quality. I've seen black Os change color after they are adult, and it isn't usually a pretty picture.  How are their fins? Do they have white or clear tips on them?  I did have a "fungal" attack that massively destroyed the tissue between the ribs of the fins, and removed the clear tips.  The fins are growing back now, but it's a slow process.  Color in the face went away as well  with the illness.  I'm still not sure what it was exactly, but Maracyn II saltwater put them back on the right track.   #3 mPedersen Total Posts : 3450 Scores: 29 Reward points : 1376 Joined: 2/27/2009 Location: Duluth, MN, US Status: offline MBI: 4975 Pnts MBI Site: Lake Superior Marine Aquarium Club Re:Black O's changing back !? Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:12 PM (permalink) 0 Anderson, I haven't seen this myself.  Closest thing I've witnessed would be a wild caught Onyx Percula LOSING all its black.  I attribute that to host choice (Xenia).  What color was the orange areas PRIOR to the diet shift?  Brown?  If so, well, Black O's are orange if you give them Astaxanthin, beige/tan/brown if you don't.  Either way, you are coloring up the tissue with the improved diet, so in a place that may have been non-black, but "not orange" prior, I'd expect it to turn orange.   #4 Fishtal Total Posts : 5467 Scores: 37 Reward points : 2908 Joined: 8/31/2006 Location: Waterford, MI, US Status: offline MBI: 585 Pnts MBI Site: MarineLife Aquarium Society of Michigan Re:Black O's changing back !? Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:22 PM (permalink) 0 The only evidence I can supply is my work with juveniles being fed TDO. When I switched from regular Otohime to TDO I saw a huge difference in the amount of time it took them to obtain their black coloration.   When I was raising them on regular Otohime it would take them at least 5-6 months to show black coloration. With the TDO they were showing it before 3 months. Not sure how this relates to adults but it was pretty clear with juveniles. http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage "Making captive breeding easier."   #5 aomont Total Posts : 774 Scores: 0 Reward points : 1003 Joined: 2/12/2011 Location: Rio de Janeiro, RJ, BR Status: offline MBI: 5 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Black O's changing back !? Monday, April 23, 2012 12:12 AM (permalink) 0 Thanks for the input folks ! Tal, I had read your report and that intrigued me more when I saw her not so black nose. Matt, I can say they looked pretty black, specially pair 2. Pair 1 was very very dark brown to say the least, I would call the female black and the male almost black. Kathy, they look healthy and I'll double check tomorrow but I didn't notice any other difference so I'm assuming their fin margins are clear. Do you suspect anything in particular about water quality ?   That said just wanted to make it clear I'm not blaming TDO/astaxanthin but rather thinking it is bringing to light some other problem I have. My orange O's are glowing, there eggs are better colored and the tomato eggs are getting fertilized now. But yes, the ocellaris and tomato nests should be larger by now and tomato fertility should be close to 100%. So it is clear I still do need to change things.   Here is the best picture I could get of female 2 and her mate. Her body is kind of brown now.   I try to get a video or a better picture tomorrow Attached Image(s) Anderson.   #6 Fishtal Total Posts : 5467 Scores: 37 Reward points : 2908 Joined: 8/31/2006 Location: Waterford, MI, US Status: offline MBI: 585 Pnts MBI Site: MarineLife Aquarium Society of Michigan Re:Black O's changing back !? Monday, April 23, 2012 12:20 AM (permalink) 0 Hmmm, interesting. http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage "Making captive breeding easier."   #7 KathyL Total Posts : 2639 Scores: 13 Reward points : 1504 Joined: 6/6/2010 Location: St. Louis, MO, US Status: offline MBI: 1605 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Aquarium Societies of North America Re:Black O's changing back !? Monday, April 23, 2012 5:51 AM (permalink) 0 In an overstocked growout, I've found that the fish go a bit brown if I don't do water changes frequently enough.  I suspect its either a sinking pH or lack of iodine or some other missing or used up quality of the water. Stress can definitely lighten their color.   Tal, how old is your regular Otohime? If you are like me, and buy the kilo bag, your regular Otohime may be older than the new TDO, and the freshness of the TDO may be what brought on the speed of blackening.  It might not be the astaxanthin, but something else in the new TDO that is absent in the old Oto. Just a guess.   As far as I can tell, astaxanthin does nothing for the black coloration, for or against.   #8 KathyL Total Posts : 2639 Scores: 13 Reward points : 1504 Joined: 6/6/2010 Location: St. Louis, MO, US Status: offline MBI: 1605 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Aquarium Societies of North America Re:Black O's changing back !? Monday, April 23, 2012 5:57 AM (permalink) 0 That said, I've been raising blacks and oranges on my new system and a few of the 2 month old blacks are really totally black, and most are brown. All are getting astaxanthin since they started getting Oto size B1.  Clearly, I haven't a clue.  Let's hear from some others.   #9 Zooid Total Posts : 182 Scores: 0 Reward points : 282 Joined: 4/14/2010 Location: Arvada, CO, US Status: offline MBI: 240 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Aquarium Society of Colorado Re:Black O's changing back !? Monday, April 23, 2012 7:31 AM (permalink) 0 I've fed mine some TDO but I've only seen it increase the orange that already existed.  It didn't make my clowns turn brown or even get lighter at all.  Mine are normally completely black by month 3 or 4 I believe.   #10 mPedersen Total Posts : 3450 Scores: 29 Reward points : 1376 Joined: 2/27/2009 Location: Duluth, MN, US Status: offline MBI: 4975 Pnts MBI Site: Lake Superior Marine Aquarium Club Re:Black O's changing back !? Monday, April 23, 2012 9:18 AM (permalink) 0 Well from the way I see it, "brown" is a reduction of the melanin, allowing the underlying color (be it tan or orange) to start to show through.  That's kinda what it looks like in Anderson's photo above.   #11 Fishtal Total Posts : 5467 Scores: 37 Reward points : 2908 Joined: 8/31/2006 Location: Waterford, MI, US Status: offline MBI: 585 Pnts MBI Site: MarineLife Aquarium Society of Michigan Re:Black O's changing back !? Monday, April 23, 2012 11:51 AM (permalink) 0 When I was using Oto it was fresh. I only buy it in the smaller packages for that reason. http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage "Making captive breeding easier."   #12 FuEl Total Posts : 36 Scores: 0 Reward points : 77 Joined: 11/21/2011 Location: Singapore, , SG Status: offline MBI: 0 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Black O's changing back !? Saturday, June 9, 2012 8:04 PM (permalink) 0 Google search "Astaxanthin and Melanin production".   #13 aomont Total Posts : 774 Scores: 0 Reward points : 1003 Joined: 2/12/2011 Location: Rio de Janeiro, RJ, BR Status: offline MBI: 5 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Black O's changing back !? Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:38 PM (permalink) 0 Update: Pair 1 looks "blacker" (the once black body parts have a more dense color) and have spawned several times since then. Nests are not big and most eggs are eaten by the pair, only a dozen reach hatch time.   Pair 2 looks "blacker" too (same) and have spawned several times since then as well. Nests are huge ! 300+ eggs and most reach hatch time. In fact we are raising some of them at this time.   The orange parts don't look smaller though... Anderson.   #14 mPedersen Total Posts : 3450 Scores: 29 Reward points : 1376 Joined: 2/27/2009 Location: Duluth, MN, US Status: offline MBI: 4975 Pnts MBI Site: Lake Superior Marine Aquarium Club Re:Black O's changing back !? Wednesday, October 31, 2012 1:00 PM (permalink) 0 My big female Black O was moved out of a reef tank and into an unlit holding system...and is losing black like crazy.   LIGHT...I am convinced that LIGHT and MATURITY are two key factors in the expression of Black in the "Black Ocellaris". Matt   #15 Fishtal Total Posts : 5467 Scores: 37 Reward points : 2908 Joined: 8/31/2006 Location: Waterford, MI, US Status: offline MBI: 585 Pnts MBI Site: MarineLife Aquarium Society of Michigan Re:Black O's changing back !? Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:38 PM (permalink) 0 Originally Posted by mPedersen My big female Black O was moved out of a reef tank and into an unlit holding system...and is losing black like crazy. LIGHT...I am convinced that LIGHT and MATURITY are two key factors in the expression of Black in the "Black Ocellaris". Matt My Darwin pair is as black as they come and they are lit with a shop light and covered with corrugated plastic. The female is 6 years old and the male is less than 2 years. (One of Adam's offspring) http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage "Making captive breeding easier."   #16 goat585 Total Posts : 98 Scores: 0 Reward points : 481 Joined: 10/1/2011 Location: Cortland,IL, IL, US Status: offline MBI: 305 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Black O's changing back !? Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:26 PM (permalink) 0 I have seen the same thing in young onyx clown fish with light.  I left for a week and only had a room light on for someone to feed them  When I came back they lost all of their black.  As soon as I lighted the tanks again they started regaining their black.  Not sure if it effects all black species of clowns or not but it was interesting.  When Rod use to raise his onyx clownfish they were raised under a 250 watt metal halide and he said they would get their black faster that way.  I raise all mine under T-5's and it seems to make a difference.  I have not tried it with my black ocellaris yet since they have not spawned but I plan to light them heavily as well.   #17 WestOhooligan Total Posts : 82 Scores: 0 Reward points : 161 Joined: 11/9/2011 Location: Omaha, NE, US Status: offline MBI: 105 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Black O's changing back !? Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:15 AM (permalink) 0 So, maybe not a particular light, but more about a particular spectrum, or intensity?    #18 Online Bookmarks Sharing: Facebook Digg Google del.icio.us StumbleUpon

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