Flamboyant cuttlefish breeding attempt

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to post, but I'm sure it will be better than placing this post on TONMO where I will probably get flamed by all the acadamia and more experienced people.
 
Long story short, there was an influx of flamboyant cuttlefish into Singapore. There are two species of flamboyants. I will never know which species is mine unless I get an expert to look at the cuttlebone (after the cuttlefish has died). I estimate that 10+ pieces landed in Singapore, I got to them a little late, about a week after they arrived. There were only 5 pcs left. 2 of which took up center position in the holding tank, with the other 3 at their own corners.  Needless to say while observing their behavior I notice there was no aggression and that they seemed like a pair. I had always wanted to work on this species, but could never find a pair. And so, I bought the pair & did research later. Some people might think that it was a bad decision but I would think I could have offered the pair better care than the average hobbyist just starting out keeping marine or leaving them in the retailer's store for an uncertain fate.
 
I got them home and dripped acclimatized them over the next 5-6 hours just to be safe & placed them in one of the many spare tanks I have running, plumbed to a central filtration system with protein skimming and biofiltration. Coral frag tanks are plumbed to this system as well. They are isolated in their own 2ftx1.ft of floor area with a rock acting as a hideout. Initial observations: This species does not seem to hide. It spends time out in the open substrate, adjusting it's color to match the surrounding gravel/substrate.
 
I feed them 3-4 times a day with a mixture of freshwater ghost shrimp & marine camel shrimp. The shrimps are gutloaded for at least a day before I feed them to the cuttlefish (except for the first feeding where my main concern is to get them something to eat). Heavy feeding is impt for this species as they are very prone to floating & drying out if not fed enough. I gutload the shrimps with Shrimp Souffle from Repashy Superfoods which is highly nutritious (if you see the ingredients you would agree).
 
Basically I did some research and came across an article:
http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-magazine/100522-rearing-flamboyant-cuttlefish.html
 
Does'nt seem so impossible to breed this species as long as there is suitable food source for the young. I expect a clutch of eggs soon as I saw the male mating with the female yesterday. It happened too quick for me to get it on video. 
 
The difficult part now is sourcing for a company that is able to ship live mysids to Singapore. I have mysids in my system, I estimate maybe 100-200 of them but I doubt it would be enough for a clutch of flamboyant cuttlefish. Meanwhile I will be setting up a 5ft x 2.5ft tank with a sand bed. I will transfer all the mysids I can catch and blast them with artemia daily. Hopefully by the time if I ever get eggs I can get at least a decent population of mysids up just in case I can never get a source of live mysids. I will also be establishing a backup food source of amphipods.
 

 
 
 
 
 
 

Good for you!  Good luck with those.  Please keep us posted.

Thanks Jim,
 
I will get them some new substrate tomorrow. Cyano is a big insult to these animals.
 
If anyone knows of any company that does ship live mysids internationally kindly do let me know. Thanks!

I don't know of any company EU/US that would ship them internationally.  Simply too long in transit, the loss due to cannibalism would be massive.  Why not try mainland China, that's where Hikari and others get theirs.

This is an awesome species Junkai !
Keep us posted on how things go.

Anderson.

Dear Gresham,
 
That's unfortunate to hear, I was hoping Reed Mariculture could get some to me. Looks like I probably have to culture my own mysids. They seem like different species though, much smaller and it does'nt look like the bahias at all. They seem somewhat nocturnal and are negatively phototactic and they don't swim in midwater, only close to the substrate. Wonder why nobody seems to be culturing those? Adults are probably around 5-6mm.

The Hikari ones are small, might be what they are culturing in China.
 
I suspect if you are willing to take the loss, we might do it (I'll ask).  It may not even be possible via regulations though.  FW mysis cannot be shipped in the US due to being an invasive critter.  I could see the SW counter part being regulated as such in some places as well.

Good luck, Junkai! I've seen some good info somewhere on mysid culture systems. I'll see if I can try to find it.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

http://www.reefstewardshi...s/showthread.php?t=740
 
The MBL PDF is no longer up.  I know I have it saved someplace at work though.

Not a great doc but it shows a rudimentary mysis generator. Seems simple enough to collect juveniles but it does not mention any method to preventing cannibalism in the juveniles during growout. It would be great to see the MBL generator.

http://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/...gi?Dockey=910057BH.txt

 
Various PMs sent
 

Dang it. I can't find the article I'm thinking of. Basically, you divide an aquarium with a screen that small mysids can't get through but water can pass. In one section, you start your broodstock. You need an airlift with a screen on the input that allows baby mysid to pass through that lifts water above the divider and down into the second section. Does that make sense? Oh heck, this is what it looked like:
 

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

 
That is lame and makes me feel like not helping you anywhere  - here FB or TONMO. If you want other people to help you, insulting them is prolly not the best way to go and actually helps make it less likely 'professionals' will help 'hobbyists'.  Its already hard enough to find time and motivation to post on forums, and being slighted at the outset make its even more difficult to find enthusiasm. 


 
As far as we trust the taxonomy of Metasepia in general, you have M. pfefferi. All of the Metasepia entering the trade, and there have been a decent number of them doing so this season, are coming from PH.
 

 
I am not a fan of long acclimations at all, especially for cephs. It's just not necessary.
 

They are pretty easy to breed. The problem has been getting broodstock. Here is a link to my MBI breeding jornal that I haven't updated in a while except to put in a vid of one of the types of courting and male/male competition:
http://www.mbisite.org/Fo...mp;m=60510&mpage=1

There is a much easier way to do it...I'll see if I can find a diagram.

Hi Thales,
 
Thanks for your kind input & advise. I would like to clarify that in no way was my comment meant as an insult. I don't have anything against TONMO & the professionals, it was actually the first forum where I wanted to register just to ask about this species. But I did'nt find it appropriate to post there after I read the "Forum Guidelines and Cephalopod Care Ethics Statement". Where "Examples of species which should be avoided include blue rings, metasepia, mimic and wonderpus, and nautilus." made me think that discussion of this beautiful species will be deemed unwelcome perhaps?
 
Point taken on the acclimatization but I prefer to play it safe for inverts, especially for these cuttlefish. I had waited for years for a pair to come along and would'nt want to risk losing them just by plopping them into the tank.
 

 
TONMO does feel the need to work hard to stop flash in the pan keepers from dabbling in difficult to keep and populations the status of which are unknown. Hence the ethics statement - which doesn't actually say that there should be no discussion of that discussion is unwelcome. If you join TONMO, you get access to the 'exotics' forum which is where discussion of those species go. 

How's it going?

Hi Richard,
 
Thanks for making things clear. Guess I'll post certain questions there regarding their physiological & husbandry requirements.
 
I'm in the midst of setting up a 5ft x 2ft refugium to culture the mysids I have in my system. As these mysids do not like light, I will have to add a lot of chaetomorpha for them to hide. As they seem to be scavangers active at night, I will feed the refugium with a little Otohime B1 & enriched artemia every night.
 
Here's a video of the setup, the strawberry crabs are just temporary residents. I just found out that these crabs do appreciate land area somewhat.
 

 
No worries, or you can just ask here too as most Flam related questions get referred to me anyway. TONMO is and MBI site so wherever you like

Did you ever find the diagram, Rich? I'm certainly interested.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Have not. Boo. Its a more passive system basically a floating box with mesh on it small enough to keep the adult mysids out but left the juivies through. I'll keep looking.

Have not. Boo. Its a more passive system basically a floating box with mesh on it small enough to keep the adult mysids out but left the juivies through. I'll keep looking.

That sounds easy enough to implement. Do juvies head to the light when born? I didn't think they did, so how do the kids get up to shelter?
 
Does it need to float, or can it just be taller than the water line and sit on the bottom?
 
Is that enough annoying questions from me for one morning?

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Or is it to keep the adult mysids IN while the young ones look for hiding places in the bottom ?
Anyway, nice and simple !
Do you feed the adult mysids artmia nauplii, Richard ?

Anderson.

Yes, adults in, babies out. Can be made even more simple by plumbing a tank into a sump. In the tank are the adults and the outflow to the sump is screened to let the babies through but keep the adults in. At the sump, the a container in which the outflow drains is screened to keep the babies in and lets the water continue to flow.
 
Makes sense?
 
Its still really hard to produce numbers, and we do feed bbs.