Mccullochi clowns

I have the opportunity to purchase some Mccullochi clowns and wanted to know if anyone has an idea as to their value these days?
I have read about them selling for thousands (2009) and also them not selling or being hard to sell.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
 
Ill probably get them for me, just because I think that they are great.
Are they the sort of thing that there is a demand for and would be worth while exporting?

 
Hey CaptCrash,  Could you post a photo of these.  I'd like to see what they look like.
 
Thanks

Google is your friend
http://www.google.com.au/...vtn6T5DjLc2ZiAf89K3iBg
 
I dont have them yet, but they are still small and look not to different to a clarkii, but with different colours.  As they get larger, the end up with a single band and a white nose.

IIRC LiveAquaria has been selling individual juveniles for like $600. I think the value to the ones you have access to might be that they could be of a lineage from a different one of the original pairs than the ones we have here in the US.

This is something that has interested me since reading Matt P discussing the genetic diversity that can be developed by using different numbers of original pairs. Don't quote me but I thought he stated that a stable captive population could be developed from 5 pairs. I think there were originally 5 pairs collected. I thought one pair died though. I will try to go back and research the story. So, if there are only 4 pairs where does that leave us with the long term viability of this species in captivity? It would be interesting if any of this collaborative "big picture" is being coordinated by key individuals owning this species.

All I can add is what Kevin Kohen told me... they are very cranky fish, even as juveniles. 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Live aquaria sells them (on occasion) for 400$ a piece, down from 500$ when I bought my first two. And yes, they are VERY cranky. Both times I have paired this species took 3-4 months and was very touch and go.

- Brandon AKA Jedi Knight

I have also heard (no firsthand experience) that these fish are quite aggressive.  I haven't heard of anyone looking for any around here.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

$399 is the going retail price for F2 generation from LiveAquaria/ORA rearing.  If you can get fish from Ryan, preferably pairings from distinct parent couples (he supposedly had 4 spawning pairs at one point) they should all be mixed to randomize genetic diversity in the F1 pairings.  I would strongly encourage you to do it for the sake of this species in the hobby.  Keep in mind that captive-bred Latezonatus plummeted to $100 a fish in the last couple years...someday Mcc's could be another $19 tomato.  But it's better that we have them in the hobby than not.

I agree 100% with Matt on the pairing advise. I would love to get my hands on a pair of F1s, each reared from different broodstock.

- Brandon AKA Jedi Knight

Matt - are you aware of any efforts to coordinate / develop a long term plan to properly establish this species in captivity (extremely long term. I know we are fine down several generations).

If not, perhaps we all should start a registry of the specimens that MBI people own. It won't be 100% scientific and foolproof as there is no way to actually tag each fish but it could at least be an effort in the right direction.

from what i have seen of these fish they are crazy priced still. theres a place in toronto that has a pair for $6000

I have some more info on these fish.
 
I am going to get some of the fish out of a batch that is available so hopefully long term Ill end up with a pair.
 
These juveniles are from a wild caught pair, so is that F1?
The adult pair is also for sale, but its out of my price range.
 
My understanding is that there were two additional pairs caught other than the 5 pairs originally captured (MrBlue/Ryan?).  This is one of the two additional pairs.  So these fish will have a different genetic makeup from the fish that have previously been exported to the USA etc.  This is the first nest of fish from this pair since it has been in captivity.

Yes, those would be F1's. 
 
Interesting about the two additional pairs.  I have never seen anything public about any additional collection.  Maybe one of the "insiders" we have around here can share any rumors they may have heard.

 
I am not.  I have talked with Ryan Dwyer about this on multiple occasions, and while he's certainly interested, I'm not sure what he's up to these days...so I'm not sure what that means for Mccs at the moment.
 
I have not head anything about additional pairs caught outside of Ryan Dwyer's pairs, and by the way Ryan tells the story, he is the only one with the permits, and was only permitted to take what he took.  Now, I could see pairs outside of Ryan's being in institutional holdings under academic / scientific permits we're not aware of, and that would go a long way to helping.  And if you know with authority that these are unrelated to Ryan's 5 pairs (which IIRC only 4 spawned), then it would represent a significant genetic influx.  
 
Unfortunately, there is potentially a strong reason to suspect that the parents in question are not wild as claimed, but could well be Ryan's offspring (as the spawning pair at LiveAquaria are).  FAO suggestions are that a minimum starting point is 5 in a population, but it has to ramp up quite substantially rather quickly to survive such a drastic genetic bottleneck.  I'm not sure what the minimum PAIRS are for long term sustainability of a captive clownfish population (I hope to have that answer figured out by MACNA), but I can tell you that one spawning pair is not enough, period.

Still, even if the parents were not wild, but were F1's from Ryan's, the would a) not be the same pair as the one @ LiveAquaria, and b) no one can say if all the released fish came from one of Ryan's Wild pairs or if they were all comingled, so you don't even know if these F1 pair(s) are siblings or not.  If they were all siblings, that would be the worst case scenario...we can only hope they are not. 

The costs and logistics could make it quite difficult but instead of doing the breeders challenge type group projects I think this would make an excellent project. Coordinate a large group buy of known F1 juveniles from all of the F0 pairs. Then we work to establish the best genetic base we can. It would have both short term goals and returns yet the more critical goal is the establishment of a stable genetic pool.

I don't have background information on them, but the Dallas World Aquarium here has over a half dozen McCulloch Clowns in their Lord Howe exhibit.  That exhibit has been open since 1993 and I believe they are still the original clowns they stocked.

- David Gibson
Denton, TX

I saw this female earlier this year. 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Who's is that one Tal?

If you look at the bottom of the filter and the reflection in the last picture there is a juvenile with his 2nd stripe still visible.

 
Today I talked to the previous owners (who sourced them from the collector) of the two pairs and have confirmed that they were a wild caught and were not supplied via Ryan.
I do not know who the collector was, but I have been given assurances that the collection of them was performed in an allowed manner.
I dont know the specifics of the permits required (I have not viewed them), but the previous owner of the two pairs exported one pair from Australia at the beginning of the year and obtained appropriate permits to do so.
 
From the information I received today, it looks like Ryan is not the only person/company who has been permitted to capture them.
 

That's awesome to know. I would say get as many of those as you can afford! Wish it were easier to get fish to the US from there.

This is all making me lean toward starting the Mccullochi Project (credit to Mike H on the name). It would involve both the documentation of existing wild caught pairs as well as recruiting individuals to collaborate on building a captive population with the best genetic distribution.

I would be interested in participating in a McCullochi Project should one arise.
 

 
Ship them to me!    I'm serious...

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

They're at Sea Atlanta.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

pm sent