Breeding Journal, Species: Stonogobiops yasha (Yasha Goby)

General
Species: Stonogobiops yasha
Social Structure:  Pair
Size of Individuals:  Small (1" or so each)
Age of Individuals:  Unknown
Date added to Tank:  July 18, 2012

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank:  ~10 gals.
Substrate Details:  none
Filtration Details:  Sponge filter, HOB biofilter
Water Changes:  1-2 per day for now. Small.
Water Temperature:  80 F
Lighting:  LED
Lighting Cycle:  ~14 on/10 off
Other Tank Inhabitants:  1 snail, some bristle worms

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types:  Homemade fish goo, TDO C1, Apocyclops
Feeding Schedule:  2-3 times/day

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn: 
Spawn Time of Day: 
Dates of Consecutive Spawns: 
Courtship Details: 
Egg Size: 
Egg Color: 
Egg Count: 

Hatch Details
Hatch Date: 
Hatch Time of Day: 
# Days after Spawn: 
Larvae Description:   
Consecutive Hatch Dates:     


Larval Tank Details
Temperature: 
Size of Larval Tank: 
Substrate Details: 
Other Tank Decor: 
Filtration Details: 
Lighting: 
Lighting Cycle: 
Water Changes: 

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start: 
Days after Hatch: 
Date of Settlement End: 
Description of Fry: 

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature: 
Size of Grow-Out Tank: 
Substrate Details: 
Other Tank Decor: 
Filtration Details: 
Lighting: 
Lighting Cycle: 
Water Changes: 
Size at Transfer: 
Age at Transfer: 

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Additional Information

(No Pictures or Videos in the Section Please)
Miscellaneous Information: 



You will be required to provide photographic or video evidence in this thread of each event submitted for the MBI Program.
If your thread does not contain these photos the MBI Committee will not be able to approve your reports. PHOTOS AND VIDEO S MUST BE PLACED IN ADDITIONAL POSTS, NEVER IN THE FIRST POST IN A JOURNAL.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

After far too long away from fish breeding, I think I'm going to give these little guys a shot. I had my fish guys order in a pair for me and picked them up last Wednesday. Acclimation seemed to go fine. They are in a standalone tank of about 10 gals. (it's an old acrylic sump) right now, in case I need to dose them or anything. Tank mates at the moment are one snail and three small bristle worms.
 

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

I found their pair bonding to be pretty interesting. After being in the tank about 10 mins., the two finally found each other. After some sizing each other up they had this little bonding moment, after which they've been completely inseparable:
 

 
The first night they found the cave system that I made for them and I haven't seen them out since. They mainly sit next to each other at the opening of the cave where the current brings food right to them. So far, they seem to eat everything I've tossed at them. Apocyclops are a big hit, as well as TDO C1 and my homemade fish goo.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Good luck!  I've been waiting for a pair to show up on my LFS' fish list for awhile.  They put two "randoms" in together for me to see how they would get on, and they got to fighting, so we figure they are males.  So I bought one, and am waiting for another one to arrive in hopes it will be a female.  My assumed single male is a good 2.25".  So I'll be on the boat with you soon. 

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

As far as breeding research goes, it looks to me like Bandeng has had the best luck of anyone I've seen so far. His breeding thread is here, with tons of great information:
 
http://www.marinebreeder.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=222&t=707&sid=87b7246098ca9469c36d4d09f8ffeefb
 
It looks like the highlights are: They spawn roughly every 8 days. He was able to keep the larvae alive using one of two SS strain rots. Looks like he finally got several settled juveniles at about 1 month, but that's about as far as he was able to get.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

EasterEggs: It sounds like they should be easy to pair. The males have a black dot on their pelvic fins. The females do not. I've seen several photos of pairs that look like this and it was mentioned in the paper introducing the fish.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Excited to see this. I have had my eye on these guys for a while. Going to get a pair coming up here before long.

Well, they certainly are pretty little gobies. I hope mine eventually start coming out more. It doesn't look like Bandeng tried copepods with them, so I'm interested to see if the babies like Apocyclops.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

I was going to ask what copepod you were going to try. I haven't done any research yet into which one I wanted to try. I fell in love with these guys the first time I saw them at my LFS several years ago. They are on my list of the best looking marine fish available.

 
Well, isn't that interesting, I haven't heard this before.  Thanks for sharing.  I will look up some photos.
 
EDIT:  Looks like I have a female, and the other one at the LFS was female too.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

There's also a discussion of it on Chad's thread: http://www.tcmas.org/v4/forums/showthread.php?t=32789

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

waldend: Thanks! Sorry I missed your last comment above earlier. Well, I'm going to try Apocyclops because that's what I have lots of. But there's always the option of getting a batch of Parvocalanus in from Reed's as a starter copepod to get the larvae up to a size where they can eat Apocyclops. Having Apocyclops available as a second (hopefully first, of course) food seems like a pretty decent plan to me. Of course, I'm open to suggestions....

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Are you going to go au-natural and let them spawn in caves/under rocks or go for pvc tubes? (or a combo of all of em?

If they are fine under the rocks then I am, too. It's really not much: A couple of dome shaped rocked propped up off the bottom with a couple of coral skeletons on top. Easy enough to see under.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

I took these over the weekend and forgot to post them. This is the female. She found a den on the backside of the rock work where food blows right to her so she hardly leaves. Hopefully she will get more bold.
 

 
Here's the male. He's now getting good about coming out for the first feeding of the day and is generally less skittish. He looks like he's getting a belly on him. He wasn't too fond of the photo shoot, so he's hiding under a rock, too.
 

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

I think your plan sounds good. I have been excited about Parvo ever since Witt talked about using them at last year's MBI conference. I will be trying to start a culture after the first of the year.

Oooo. I haven't heard about Witt's talk. Can you paraphrase for me?
 
They ought to be good. I would think they would be a good size to be first food for mid-size larvae (i.e., those too small to take rots but not so small they need Parvocalanus). I would also think they would make a good second food for the really tiny larvae like dwarf angels.
 
But, we'll see. Anyone know which sex broods the eggs in these? I would think the male, but that female just does not budge from her little den, almost like she's sitting on some. I doubt she was in shape enough to spawn already (she looks too thin in that first photo to me), but I wonder.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Unfortunately I cannot paraphrase. I didn't take notes last year and it has been a long stressful year since then. I do, however, recall that he used them for the work he was doing and I felt he seemed very excited and optimistic about it being a good copepod to use for marine ornamentals. This was the feeling that stuck with me and made me want to try them. Sorry I cannot be more specific.

If anyone recalls differently or can expand please do so!

Thanks for what you have given me. I knew that they had been used before and I've used them now (not exclusively) for clowns. I just hope that the dinoflagellate diet is enough to get some tougher fish through. Well, never know 'til I give them a shot.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

The male had taken over the female's little cave for a while, never leaving that I saw. Today he is out of the rock work and running around the tank, displaying like crazy toward the female. I think they probably spawned and eggs hatched last night/today. So, the watch begins to try to figure out the schedule.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Oh, excellent news!  So far I've had no luck finding a Yasha with black on its pelvic fins.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

So the guy's still out and about this evening. The girl's back in the small cave (that may be because I did a water change, though). Hopefully....
 
Sorry. Maybe have the fish store order one in for you? They should be able to specify.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

 
No, they can't specify fin coloring.    They only rarely see pairs show up in the supplier lists too.  The LFS gets them in regularly, and out of 6 none of them have had black on the pelvic fins.  I Googled "Yasha Goby pair" and noticed that most pairs seem to have one with black one without, but not all pairs.  Albeit, just because it is a picture of two Yashas, doesn't mean they are really a breeding pair.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

That's funny. My guys are totally able to specify whatever I want and the wholesaler tries to accommodate. Every once in a while they cannot, but more often than not it's exactly what I specify. They got a pair of harlequin filefish right on the first try. I just showed them pictures of the males vs. females. On the other hand, they aren't the cheapest wholesaler, but they really are worth it. I can try to get you the name if you'd like. I used to know it, but oldness and name retention don't mix well. You should see them at parties. It's never pretty.
 
Of course, you are in Canada, so it comes down to whether they can ship to you, but it doesn't hurt to ask, right?
 
The male was back in the rocks yesterday afternoon and I think I witnessed part of the spawning (male/female switching who was in the hole in the rocks over and over) at about 1:30 pm yesterday (8/19/12 for anyone keeping count). I haven't been down there yet today but I'll report if there's news.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

If you remember the name, yes please PM.  There are only so many wholesalers...     (Sorry I'm messing up your journal with off-topic stuff)
 
Isn't it frustrating when you can't see the possible nest site very well?  Drives me nuts.  Maybe there is some sort of small camera on a cord we could use or something.

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

Sorry. I really got buried in work and look to be the same until at least the weekend.
 
I believe Quality Marine are the people I dealt with (through the LFS). Not the cheapest, but I've been quite happy with the fish I've gotten from them.
 
I don't know what to think about my male. He spends most of the time in the hole but then he'll be off hanging with the female again. No clue and I may have been premature to get excited.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

For whatever meaning it may hold: Today, 30 Aug. 2012, the male is again out and around the tank. 11 days since the last one.
 
Bandeng's experience was 8 days between hatches but 5 days of incubation, suggesting there are a few days after hatch and before the next spawn:
 

 
From here: http://www.marinebreeder.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=222&t=707&start=25
 
A good bit of small, unrecognizable detritus in the water column. Remains of larvae, chewed up by the pumps?
 
I guess I need to hit the fish room early in the morning in 11 days and see what there is to see.
 
Okay, back to work. Only 2-3 more projects to get done before Tuesday.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Nice to know Andy. Thanks for sharing this info!  Could come in handy for someone also working on this species.

-Adam

Thanks, Adam!
 
Just finished my last project after working 'til midnight last night. That means I actually get the long weekend. Woohoo!
 
The male is back under the rocks today. It's definitely a pattern now, IMO. Now to figure out what it means....

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

So, the male and female were interacting a bit yesterday. Maybe the spawn day? It would make sense if it's a 5-6 day incubation. Eleven days from the boy hitting the rocks would be about 9/10 or 9/11.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Hmm, that is interesting Andy - I've noticed similar behavior that you're reporting.  I'm just wondering if I'm over looking eggs in the donuts I made for them to nest in.  

Quite possibly, especially if they tend to hatch at weird times.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Well hopefully I'll have some more Stono's to compare to.  Just got in (well going to pick up at the airport  in an hour lol) 7 Dracula's.  It will be nice to see if they follow a similar pattern as the yasha's.  I will note tho that my yasha's do not have the black on the fin - yet they are constantly next to each other, even if one goes out for a swim, the other is next to them.  
 
Definite size difference, but unless I'm totally blind (which is possible), there is no black on the fins.  They are in a 20L all by themselves, with about 1/2" of sand/crushed coral base. The donuts are just there to make egg collection easier.    Keep up with em - I know I've missed Helfrichi eggs because I thought no egg could be as small as they are! 

i have brought a pair of yashas now,  it might be worth noting one of the pairs in the shop only just had the black on the fin, it litrally was just on the tip of the fin, but was there
 
i picked the pair with more black just to be sure!!

Good luck with those Dracs. I'd like to head that way, too, if I wind up with any success with these.
 
And good luck with your new Yashas, Matt.
 
If my math is correct then it's possible there will be larvae in the morning! We'll see. And hopefully tomorrow won't be as ugly busy with work as today was.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Oh, as an aside, I found a small clown that's been living in a brute trashcan for months and I tranferred it to the Yasha tank to serve as a dither fish. The female immediately came out to display at the clown quite aggressively to protect the rock work. Pretty cool to watch. Then the next day, the goby was right back to normal--hiding under the rocks all day.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

My yasha's just hide hide hide!  Always together tho.  I'd worry that they weren't eating but they destroyed 100 live mysid shrimp in about two days.  
 
Andy are you checking for eggs? Or just going after larva?
 
Quick shot of half the Drac's and some Helfrichi's in QT
 

 
Sorry for huge size - forgot I had camera on max

Mine are mostly in the rock work but rarely come out, like the female displaying at the clown (first time she's been out), or the male with his "off" days. I watched them for about an hour today. Both male and female occasionally came to the entrance of their cave to be aggressive toward me. I find that encouraging, BTW.No luck on any larvae today, but I might have missed them. I had to take the kiddo to school and some lights in the room had already come on when we left. The male wasn't out-and-about yet today, though. Could be the clownfish. Could be some other reason. No clue. I'm not directly checking for eggs because the male spends his time in a hole in the very bottom of their rock work. I'd have to dismantle the whole tank to get to it.
 
Nice photo! Good luck with them!

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Well it is pretty dang easy to pair these guys.  
 
Males have a long pointed pelvic fin, where females are more rounded.  So by that, I've got one male and three, possibly four females.  I'll take pics tomorrow.  Now I've got to pull them out of the QT tank they are in now and get them into a broodstock tank.  The male is already sharing a shell with another drac.  Lots of food and 12hr light cycle and we'll see

Looks like I must've lost the male. At first I thought they just moved his hiding place, but I haven't seen him in an awfully long time.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886