Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3

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EasterEggs
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Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Sunday, August 12, 2012 10:28 AM
Breeding Journal DataSheet 

General
Species:  Pterapogon kauderni (wild caught)
Social Structure:  Proven pair
Size of Individuals:  1.25" body length not including finnage.  Still fairly small.
Age of Individuals:  Probably hatched around early spring 2011.
Date added to Tank:  Added to broodstock system 08/02/12.

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank:  20 gallons plumbed to 120 gallon broodstock system.
Substrate Details:  Fine dusting of sand.
Filtration Details:  200 micron filter sock, 2 gallons bioballs, EuroReef RS-180 skimmer.
Water Changes:  Weekly 40%.  Try to keep nitrate <25 ppm, but it is often around 40 ppm.
Water Temperature:  80F
Lighting:  T8 fluorescent
Lighting Cycle:  14 hours light, 10 hours dark
Other Tank Inhabitants:  Breeding pair of Orchid Dottybacks

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types:  Mainly frozen homemade mash, some PE Mysis, and some SFB Brine Shrimp.
Feeding Schedule:  3x per day

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn:  Bred for previous owner half a dozen or so times.  Small juveniles swimming around reef tank when I bought the pair.
Spawn Time of Day:  Afternoon
Dates of Consecutive Spawns: 
08/10/12.  Male eating again 08/12.
08/29/12.  Male eating again 09/01.  Grr.
* I was away from the fish room for the winter. *
03/27/13.
04/27/13. 
05/30/13.  Swallowed 06/03.
06/15/13.
Courtship Details:  Not a flirty pair unless close to spawning.  Female becomes obviously gravid within a few days of spawning.  When close to spawning, they stick very close to each other - almost touching.  Then the female starts vibrating next to male for several seconds with their tail fins touching/intertwined, then swims backwards around his tail to his other side, and vibrates on that side.  Male looks like he is stretching his jaw and flaring the lower part of his gills.  They won't be interested in food when they are ready to spawn.   As the eggs are laid they stick to the female's vent in a bundle and the male does "drive-by" fertilizations.  When the spawning is over the male gulps the eggs into his mouth in one big gulp.
Egg Size:  2 - 2.2 mm
Egg Color:  Pinkish orange.
Egg Count:   Not observed.

Hatch Details
Hatch Date:  04/19/13.  20 fully developed fry stripped from the male.
Hatch Time of Day:  Not observed - in male's mouth.
# Days after Spawn:  Stripped 24 days after spawn.
Larvae Description:    1/4" long look-a-likes of the adults
Consecutive Hatch Dates:  
05/19/13.  36 fry stripped.


Larval Tank Details
Temperature:  80F
Size of Larval Tank:  5-gallons half filled.
Substrate Details:  None
Other Tank Decor:  Fake hairgrass plant.
Filtration Details:  None.
Lighting:  Ambient from other tanks.
Lighting Cycle:  14 on, 10 off.
Water Changes:  TBD

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types:  NHBBS, frozen Cyclpeeze, TDO B1.
Feeding Schedule:  3-5x per day.

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start:  Settlement occurs in male's mouth.
Days after Hatch:  Not observed.
Date of Settlement End:  Settlement occurs in male's mouth.  Stripped from male on 04/19/13.
Description of Fry:  Miniature version of parents.  White spots on fins and black spots on body not developed, but stripes are already present.

Grow-Out Tank Details

Temperature:  80F
Size of Grow-Out Tank:  5 or 10-gallon stand alone or 10, 15, or 20-gallon tank plumbed into 80-gallon growout system.
Substrate Details:  None.
Other Tank Decor:  None.
Filtration Details:  Central sump.  Filter sock, bioballs, Vertex IN-250 skimmer.
Lighting:  Some tanks are ambient, some have a clip on 13 watt compact fluorescent.
Lighting Cycle:  14 on, 10 off.
Water Changes:  50% wice weekly on stand alone tanks, and bi-weekly on growout system.
Size at Transfer:  1/2"
Age at Transfer:  30-40 days.

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types:  TDO B1
Feeding Schedule:  4x per day via auto feeder.

Additional Information
 
This pair was bought from a fellow hobbyist where the male was a successful incubator.  The reef tank the pair were housed in had a couple dozen newborn Banggai swimming around.

<message edited by EasterEggs on Friday, July 5, 2013 8:09 PM>
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Sunday, August 12, 2012 11:05 AM
Seeing as this is the true meaning of a proven pair since I saw juveniles swimming in the reef tank with this pair, I am a bit miffed that he swallowed most of the eggs by day 2 and was eating again today.  It makes me thinking about the theory that high nitrate causes poor incubation.  Maybe there is something in that.  If that really is the case, I need to make a Banggai-only system that I dedicate to much more waterchanges.  That's not in the cards right now, so I will wait and see if possibly the incubation fail was caused by the pair being new to the system and not yet comfortable.  *fingers crossed*
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Friday, April 19, 2013 10:29 PM
This pair has not produced viable offspring until today.  The male has refused to hold to term.  I was away from the fish room for the winter, so maybe he was holding ok then.  I just stripped 20 well developed fry from the male which is day 24.  They are in the dark right now in a 5-gallon aquarium 1/2 filled with a fake hairgrass plant to hang out in.  I have BS eggs bubbling and should have NHBBS for them in the morning.
 
EDIT to add:  Photo from 04/20/13.

<message edited by EasterEggs on Saturday, June 15, 2013 5:06 PM>
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:04 PM
I was in Mexico April 26th to May 6th and during this time 13 were lost to cannibalism because they were not fed often enough.  I transferred 7 to the growout system with some Percula fry on May 19th.  One did no do well since the transfer and has died.  There are currently 6 in the growout system weaned onto frozen Cyclopeeze and surprisingly (to me) 5 of them also eat TDO B1 from the surface.
 
There was another spawning on April 27th and I stripped 36 fry from the male on May 19th.
<message edited by EasterEggs on Saturday, June 15, 2013 5:07 PM>
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Saturday, June 15, 2013 5:12 PM
There are 4 left from the 04/19/13 batch.  These 4 are ones that were weaned onto TDO B1 and reside with some Percula fry.  The others I could not wean.  The remaining 4 are in a growth spurt right now, and doing very well.  For this batch, 06/17 will be the 60 dps date.
 
The 05/19 batch is also doing well.  I have only lost one.  This batch is proving tough to wean onto frozen Cyclopeeze let alone TDO.  About 50% refuse the Cyclopeeze.  I might move some Clownfish fry in with them to see if this will help trigger them into feeding on the TDO.  Annoyingly, I'm still having to feed lots of BBS.
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

jazzybio13
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:09 AM
nice, glad to see you doing banggai's. 

EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Monday, June 17, 2013 6:07 PM
Quote Originally Posted by jazzybio13
nice, glad to see you doing banggai's. 

 
It's been very hit or miss.  Frustrating.
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Monday, June 17, 2013 6:12 PM
Even though I raised these guys back in 2008 and made my spawn, hatch, and settlement reports from that time, I didn't have any pics to prove 60 dps, so here's my 60 dps pic from today:

 
 
 
I also took some fun pics of the harem.  I put the two batches together yesterday (along with about a dozen baby Clowns) in hopes the older ones will teach the younger ones to eat TDO.  If you look close you can tell which are the older ones.  The older ones did get stunted while I was in Mexico when they were only a few days old because they were only getting fed twice per day, so the younger ones are almost is big as the older ones.

 

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

jazzybio13
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Monday, June 17, 2013 6:20 PM
Yeah it can be quite frustrating! I just had my female kill my male... argh... they were such a young pair though. It was half expected.   

EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Monday, June 17, 2013 11:07 PM
That's strange.  I've only had two males kill each other.  I've never had a female kill another female or a male. 
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

jazzybio13
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Monday, June 17, 2013 11:19 PM
yeah, if you have a young pair and they mate, after he releases he's pretty thin, and is not considered worthy of mating so to her he is just an intrusion of territory... or at least that's the theory. 

EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:50 PM
Odd, I've never experienced that.  I feed very heavily when they males aren't incubating.  I also feed heavily if the pair isn't breeding yet.
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Sunday, September 8, 2013 10:08 AM
This pair spawns regularly, but the male tends to slowly eat a couple batches and start eating food again around the 15 day mark, then he will take one batch to full term, then he will eat a couple again. 
 
I've had reasonable success weaning the babies onto TDO or Sustainable Aquatics Hatchery Diet (which is easier for me to get).  Probably 30% of each batch really refuse to eat anything but BBS despite my efforts for several weeks.  This results in their demise.  Any hints, tips, suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

jazzybio13
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Sunday, September 8, 2013 3:07 PM
I don't know, I usually offer TDO (or alternative pellet form) to the whole group, over and over again for as often as I can...for as long as possible *until they seem to really be lagging in energy and simply must eat something or will parish... it is then that I separate out those that don't take to it... typically about 30-40% or so. Those I start by offering very finely shredded frozen mysis, or a DIY mash of all meats... they usually find something to pick on out of that if they don't go for the mysis. I can usually sell my babies that are pellet fed for a higher price than I can the frozen fed ones. but no more than 1-1.50 dollars more a piece (pending on the store).  
 
 
good luck!
 

EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Sunday, September 8, 2013 7:59 PM
Thanks Jasmine, that's essentially what I do too.  I do end up losing quite a few though even after weeks of trying.  I did forget to mention I have a frozen mash that I use too.
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jazzybio13
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Sunday, September 8, 2013 8:16 PM
yeah, much past that I don't how to entice them. Although on my last batch of stubborn babies pre-ween I was able to offer them live brine then ween to partial DIY mash and T. californicus and that seemed to pull them through just long enough to ween off solidly to frozen. 

EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Monday, September 9, 2013 10:10 PM
I need to get a Tigriopus culture going again...
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EasterEggs
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:32 PM
I have a batch to pull tonight.  No empty tanks...hmm.
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jazzybio13
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:49 PM
send 'em my way!  

bangaii.breeder
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:06 PM
just wanted to join in on the fun here's some of my pics and video for proof of 60 dps and for fun to show peeps my setup. http://s875.photobucket.com/user/ocellarisenthusiast/slideshow/
hope you enjoy

jazzybio13
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Banggai Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) Pr 3 - Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:12 PM
great pics, make sure you make a journal for those little ones so you can get those 60dph points.... along with your spawn, and hatch points as well.