Banggai too skittish?

Is it ever a good idea to put in other tank mates into the broodtank of a pair of banggais?  I'm thinking chromis or something.
 
My hope is that it would make them less skittish and more prone to spawn and hold to full term. 
 
While they were in my reef tank, they spawned regularly and held to full term.  Ever since I put them in the brooktank, they spawn less often and when they do, he only keeps the eggs a few days.
 
What do you think?

I can't speak for banggais in particular, but I have a female saddleback that was so skittish she hardly ever ate.  Then I put some active dottybacks in with her and she is so much better, it's like she's a different fish.  She isn't quite as brazen as my ocellaris, but she eats better and generally seems more comfortable (she doesn't try to cram herself in corners or hidey holes anymore) when I approach the tank.

I would agree with shannpeach, I was able to get several of my fish to come out more with the addition of an active butterflyfish, so I think an active fish will do your cardinalfish well.

what type of fish would you recommend?  They are held in a standard 20 gallon tank. Chromis? 

Chromis, maybe an active clownfish, or perhaps some damselfish, just some fish that will stay out and be active.

I'd expect adding more active fish to have the opposite effect on Banggai. Competing for food and spooking them more. What do you have in the broodstock tank? If it's empty you might try adding some LR, macro, or pieces of PVC for them to hide in/around.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

I would have gone with the more hiding places approach if the tank is fairly bare.
They may just feel insecure compared to a reef tank.

The other thing would be the positioning of the tank. If its in a high traffic area or at a different height than they are used to.

I had an issue with some tanks that were near floor level. The fish were skittish. I moved them to different but the same sized tanks at waist level and they started to spawn. This was two pairs of occy's, but it may be worth a try in case it's an external influence.

 
 
In my research, and in all the times I had problems with Banggais holding personally, there were generally only a handful of reasons thrown out there.  1. Too MUCH commotion.  2.  Diet.  3.  Tank Size.

Your personal annecdote would suggest that #1 wasn't the issue.  #3, Tank Size, is at best a weak factor in my opinion, based on numerous observations, when, taken in total, suggest that small tank or big tank makes no difference.  #2.  Diet, seemed to be the biggest single determining factor, so much so that when I switched the diet on my broodstock fish here, spawn frequencies increases and I finally had some pairs hold to term on their own, which they weren't doing before.

Bottom line...all of the Banggais in my fishroom were VERY gregarious and outgoing fish.  You haven't suggested that your fish are hiding more...but you did imply they are more "skittish".  I can't say I had any skittish Banggais here, and my fish were all said to be wild caught (which you would think would be less socialized and more prone to hiding).  My tanks were largely bare, although here's the rub; your fish came from a tank that WASN'T bare, but had heavy cover, so maybe they are missing that?

Diet wise, I don't want to spoil the book, but I feel obligated to say that I added processed frozen scallops soaked in Selcon and made that a staple part of their diet - it did wonders.  This was not my trick, this goes back to Mai, in German, in 2004.

 

I am trying now with just one pair of Banggais in 16g tank, with 25% live rock for hiding. For me, this would be best possible approach, and I will let you know about my results after first spawn takes place. It will be tough to catch male afterwards, but this is price I am willing to pay in order to provide enough hiding places for them. I must agree that diet must be a big factor here, and I wouldn't trow in any more fishes besides just one pair of Banggais. 

I add fresh scallops to all of my fish goo concoctions. The only trouble I've had with Banggais holding to term is when the males are attempting to hold when they are too young.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

Thank you all for your replies.  
 
The breeding setup is in a room in the basement.  I'm the only one that goes in there (have no kids and wife doesn't like all the fish stuff) and I only go in there to feed.
 
Their tank is kind of bare though.  Sand on the bottom, and only 2 pieces of rock (the rest is in the sump).  I'll try to add more rock and see if that makes a difference.
 
The food I feed them is mostly a homemade concoction containing shrimp, fish flesh, scallops, clams, some squid, freeze dried cyclop-eeze.  All blended up and bound using gelatin.  I've only been feeding once a day, would increasing feedings make them more outgoing?
 
These fish were bred and raised by another reefer in my area.  I've had them for over two years now.  They've always been on the "skittish" side though.

I had the same problem with my captive bred pair. They were extremely skittish in quarantine that was bare save for a few pieces of live rock rubble and pvc pipe, so when I moved them to their permanent home I gave them A LOT of live rock (20 pounds of dry rock in a 20 gallon tank). It didn't affect their behavior in the least bit. They still hid for the most part and really only came out when I approached with food. 
 
For what it's worth, I never had luck breeding them either. I had them for almost 2 years I think and while the female was fantastic and produced 30 eggs each spawn, the male swallowed the eggs consistently on days 2 or 3. He never got better at it, either, even when fed 6 times a day with every food I could get my hands on. After 10 or so failed clutches I gave up. After some research, it seems that this is way too common with captive bred bangaiis, though I'm not sure if its actually the fact that they're captive bred (and therefore lacking some kind of experience they would get from the wild) or that they tend to be on the skittish side as adults, making them more prone to egg swallowing. I'm interested to see how your male does now that he's out of the tank he was comfortable in.

Hmm, my experience sounds a lot like yours altolamprologus.  Except for one time.  The first time I saw him holding eggs, he carried them the whole 21 days and I have live banggai fry for a total of 3 days.  I didn't know anything about raising them or anything and so I made mistakes that killed them... I was sad.  But that event made me want to try it again, as well as try breeding other fish.  I haven't been successful yet (I've had the breeding system up for just over 1/2 year but had to go through a different pair of clownfish during a move) but I haven't lost hope yet!

I've got 4 recently-formed pairs currently (all captive bred): 3 pairs in bare 20g tanks (with 2" PVC T's) with dim lighting, and 1 pair just added into a 27g community tank with bright lighting. The traffic around both tanks is comparable, with the community tank getting slightly more traffic.
 
The bare tank fish are definitely what I would call "skittish". I added some fake plastic plants and this seemed to help some. Their skittishness also effects their eating- I have to move slowly when feeding them or they get spooked and hide.
 
The pair in the community tank are never skittish. They eat wonderfully. I'm not sure if it's because they are less shy or because of the food competition. I can move freely around the tank and it doesn't bother them at all.
 
I have yet to determine, however, which environment works best at breeding. The fish were all very young when purchased. I've had several failed attempts in the bare tanks, but I am still chalking some of these early failures up to fish age. No breeding activity yet in the community tank, altho they were the smallest of all the fish and consequently the last pair to form.

 
 
Exactly!  I wonder if we can figure out what exactly makes them less skittish in these community tanks.  Food competition? more shelter? Extra fish?
 
I think you'll find (if consistent with my experiences) that the ones in the community tank will spawn and carry to full term(is that even the right word? lol) while the skittish ones will spawn and abort.

Just an update, I have since added another rock to their broodtank.  This rock makes a wall (with one little tunnel about halfway up the height of the tank.  I'll have to take a picture next time I remember.
 
This almost immediately made them less skittish.  They now come out front more often and eat while I watch.  They still get spooked easier but this seemed to make it much better.  Now to see if they will spawn again and to see if the male will do the full 21 days. 

Just another update, they are still way less skittish that they used to be and the male is holding (or at least I think he is, his mouth is all big and he doesn't eat).  
 
Now to see if he'll last the 21 or so days.

How did your pair do? Did your male hold the eggs?

No, he never held eggs again for the full amount of time.  So I sold them and plan to focus more on my clownfish.

One observation that I've made recently that may be related- I was initially thinking that when I had them in more of a community setting that they were less skittish. When they've been in a community setting they are generally in brightly lit tanks. However, when I have them paired up in their own broodstock tank the broodstock tank is generally dimly lit, and they were much more skittish. By coincidence I attributed the community setting to being the factor that made them less skittish- but from what I am seeing now I think it has more to do with lighting and less with tankmates. But, that is just my latest personal observation. Mileage may vary...

"If everything is going good, you've obviously overlooked something."- Martin Moe, Jr

I have broodstock tanks both dimly lit ones and bright lit ones, and both my pairs are wild caught, not terribly skittish though in either tank. my younger of the two pairs (in brightly lit tanks) is a tad bit more skittish but i really haven't had them too long to see much personality come out in them). These fish are only skittish when I open the cabinet first thing in the morning (but this spooks both clowns and banggai's alike). Now, for a not so bright tank, ALL of them are skittish, with no exceptions. They hold to term for me if I be sure to keep my distance and only feed where they can't see me approach the tank. 
 
don't know if that'll help you much, but... my plans are to put good lights over the rest of those tanks. well, rather build an entire rack just for my cardinals, then have good lights over them!