Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol?

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mPedersen
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Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Sunday, March 17, 2013 1:46 AM
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OK, so this is the "all call".  I've certainly reared my fair share of marine fish, but honestly, being an "experimental breeder", I think MANY of you have more refined growout protocols that yield highly consistent and quality results.  Since I'm not breeding for sale, I've lacked all of that incentive to produce mass quantities of quality fish.
 
So putting it to my fellow breeders point blank - for me, and for the benefit of your fellow breeders, what's your best rearing protocol in terms of yielding the highest percentages of viable fish, with the least misbars, and the best overall body shape and confirmation? I'm talking from hatch to growout.  Oh, and maybe I'm going to even suggest you prove it with photos.
 
I certainly know how I want to approach my next clownfish batch, but looking at my personal disappointment with the original clutch of Lightning Maroons, I'm open to revisiting everything.
 
 

matt1001
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Sunday, March 17, 2013 5:47 AM
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Watching this thread with interest, think your get a wide range of answers though

Fishboy42
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Sunday, March 17, 2013 11:09 AM
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I can't necessarily post a protocol here, but there are a few things I think are important that are worth mentioning that hopefully can help you and perhaps other breeders as well.
Matt, your idea of revisiting everything is good I think--it's something we do often when we are looking to improve.
 
In this case, I would start from the beginning--Broodstock nutrition and care. This of course has to be optimized in-order to have the best quality larvae to start rearing quality fish. A couple of feedings per day is probably enough. Pigment-rich foods are important, as is getting enough quality protein. One "easy" food that I like to use in addition to other feeds, to make sure fish get enough protein, is chopped seafoods (table shrimp, mussels, squid, etc). This seems to help if there is any problem with the eggs going to-term and certainly will increase number of eggs and larval health -- "strong larvae," I call them. Other breeders have cautioned against feeding too much shrimp (due to egg-binding) or squid (due to fatty liver problems), so perhaps feed with caution and don't overdo it (whatever that means?!), but I've only a couple of times seen egg-binding, and it was always with new spawners that subsequently recovered and spawned normally. This is from feeding lots of shrimp/squid to hundreds of pairs for more than 10 years now...feeling old
 
For the larval care, I think Chad has it right-on, but how to get there? ("good food and water" was the gist of his response I think). An airstone or two within the rearing vessel is pretty standard for most breeders, but I find that most use too little air. The larval fish (even smaller clown larvae like maroons and perhaps especially maroons ) can handle and seem to appreciate good flow in the larval tank. Keeping this air going and the tank circulating throughout larval rearing does seem to help. IME, maroons seem to occur in very shallow water -- whether or not this has anything to do with their larvae preferring/tolerating a lot of flow in the larval tank I couldn't say, but it's just a thought I had...
 
One thing to do for water quality on a larval tank/tub where you are doing something special and want the best fish is to put it on a "drip" from a larger reservoir of clean, newly-mixed (aerated, heated) saltwater. This way you can flush the rearing vessel with clean water. This almost can't be overdone as long as you are able to keep food densities high. Speaking-of, this also helps, because flushing out the old food allows you to add fresh live feeds (rotifers/brine/copepods, whatever you are using) which will have more optimal nutrition than food that has been swimming around in a clean larval tank for hours/days.
 
When they begin to take prepared foods (the importance of quality here is obviously important), make sure that you can either keep that "flush" going or put them onto a central filtration system to keep the water clean. As the fish grow, large waterchanges on the system (and siphoning the tank bottom) will keep the water quality high so that they will continue feeding strongly. High water quality throughout larval rearing also does seem to reduce deformities.
 
Another note--I know that some breeders have suggested a 24-hour light cycle, but I prefer something closer to 12/12. This isn't to say that it can't work, just my $.02. I believe that the rest period is important (for fish and people, since you don't want to have to feed in the middle of the night!). The larvae will feed actively all throughout the "day" period though, so food should be available during that time starting with lights-on.
 
Using these "philosophies," we don't get enough misbar ocellaris to make them available, perhaps 1/250 orange ocellaris show misbarring. The same thing is now happening with blacks as we narrow-in on the things I've mentioned above. Hopefully this can help? I'll post a picture to prove it if I can figure it out...

 

reeflover
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Sunday, March 17, 2013 12:25 PM
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Sorry, only 5 days into my first attempt, so I have no idea what these onyx will look like.  But keeping my fingers crossed as I have not had any losses to speak of so far....maybe 2-3 fish since the 25 found dead the night of hatching out of 200 + that hatched.  So I'm off to a good start.  All I can prove right now is that I can hatch and keep percs alive for 5 days but I hope that will improve with time.

mPedersen
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Sunday, March 17, 2013 2:44 PM
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Jay Hemdal posted this link in over on Facebook - "the best protocol I've had was when we used Tisbe naups:" http://microcosmaqx.typep...ish-one-more-time.html

mPedersen
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:30 PM
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Matt offers a lot of awesome stuff up there, and Jay's link is worth the read too.  Who else feels like sharing what works best for them?

Fishtal
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:43 PM
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Sorry I haven't posted yet. I've been trying to work through some issues with my own protocols. I started having issues last summer due to the extreme heat we had here and most of my pairs didn't get back to business until the end of the year. The batches that I've worked with since the recovery have been a bit disappointing so I've been trying new things. I'll post my original protocols first.
 
From the time I started in 2008 until the heatwave of 2013 I did basically the same thing... I removed the tiles on the night of expected hatch and moved them to a 10G tank filled with 5G of water from the broodstock system. The morning after hatch I add rotifers and RotiGreen Omega. Around day 5-7 I start adding TDO A in small amounts until I see most larvae eating it, at that point I allow the rotifers to dwindle and stop adding RotiGrow. After the fish have reached settlement I slowly increase water volume by about 1/2G per day and add a sponge filter around 14 days. I increase food size to TDO B1 and B2. By about 4 weeks they are large enough to be move into the growout system. 
 
Using that protocol I had nearly 100% survival rates for most types of clowns. Regular A. ocellaris had a 99.99% chance of full bars. Darwins showed varying numbers of full and mis-bars (which I had no problem with). Regular A. percula mis-bar rate was hard to tell because many were sold before patterns were complete. Picasso offspring showed a wide range of patterns in each batch, consisting of everything from the typical, slow A. percula pattern process, A. ocellaris-type patterns, Picasso patterns and Platinum. Of all the fish I raised with this protocol I had only 1 fish that showed any type of physical abnormality, as documented in my CB: FAQ presentation.
 
This is getting wordy so I'll continue in my next post.
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Fishtal
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:02 PM
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Fast forward to the summer of 2012... I had over a month of extreme temps (no A/C) and had to keep the lights off except for feeding times. This threw all of my pairs off balance and, as I mentioned above, most of them didn't recover until the end of the year... just in time for my vacation.
 
Since then, while the number of eggs has been high, eggs have appeared smaller, have taken longer to hatch, and had high mortality hatch rates, were taken over by fungus before hatch, or died soon after hatch.
 
I've heard similar stories from other breeders and started using new SW for the hatch tanks instead of broodstock water. This worked once and failed once so far so I can't say if it's the problem. 
 
Broodstock feeding has always been pretty much the same over the years. I'm feeding the same foods, so I'm pretty sure that isn't the cause of the issue.
 
I have been lax on water changes to the broodstock systems over the last few months and tend to think that may be the culprit. The first batch I started using new SW on, instead of broodstock water seems to be doing well. Lower than normal survival rate but the ones that did survive are almost ready to be moved to growout and are pretty much fully barred. The 2nd batch was a complete fail with 100% mortality.  
 
 
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JoeDigiorgio
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Friday, March 22, 2013 1:40 AM
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What was your water change schedule, if any from day 1-7 post hatch? How do you control ammonia when using pastes?

I've only ever used live phyto so ammonia was never a problem but I also wasn't getting 99.99% survival lol

Umm_fish?
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Friday, March 22, 2013 10:15 AM
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Sorry. I've only done one batch of clowns so I don't have enough data to really offer anything. I did give Apocyclops early in addition to rots and wound up with very few deaths at meta (I think it was only 5 or 6). I had a lot of trouble with flared gills developing late that I'm assuming was a water quality issue. That's where I would start to try to fix the problem anyway.
 
Good luck with your research!
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goat585
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Friday, March 22, 2013 2:42 PM
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My procedure had been changing but this is where I am at currently.  Start with fresh saltwater 6-7 gallons in a 20 gallon tank.  I light 24/7 through meta.  I add rotifiers and rotigreen omega an hour or so after hatch.  No water change on day one.  I remove about .5 gallon of water everyday from day 2-10 while siphoning the bottom.  I replace with 1-2 gallons on new saltwater daily to start increasing the water volume.   I add roifiers and green water as needed.  On day 4-5 I add enriched nhbbs.  Day 7 I stop adding rotifiers and green water, add a sponge filter, start TDO A.  Day 10 stop NHBBS.  After they they just get TDO, cyclops-eeze and rods larval food.  After day 10 I start weekly 30% water changes.  Not sure what my success rate is but I typically get 150+ fish our of the process.  Currently I am raising maroons, occeleris and onyx perculas this way.

matt1001
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Friday, March 22, 2013 5:03 PM
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wish I could add to this but ive only had one serious attempt,  and only have 7 occs from it.
 
I don't see much reference to chloramx which I though was pretty much standard practice

GinaReef
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:10 AM
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i'm not getting many to actually hatch, however, since I can't get TDO easily, I had moderate success using a combination of Hikari First Bites, Ken's golden pearls 5-50um and then adding in pulverized Omega One pellets and selcon.

KathyL
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Tuesday, April 2, 2013 9:29 PM
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Two questions;
Does anyone sterilize the larval tank and if so, with what?
Anyone tried probiotics?and if so, did you see improvement?
 
check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
Captive bred clownfish and more
(Wholesale to the trade.)

TheCoralShoppe
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Wednesday, April 3, 2013 10:44 AM
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I'm in the same boat as Tal. Last summer after months of problems with my Darwins, and having mortality issues, I have a personal life event come up. And started ignoring my broodstock. And things just went downhill from there. I have a procedure in mind. Including that flushing method, before they are put on the  central filtration. Currently in process of a complete fishroom overhaul. Which will make production much betetr with the things i have learned. Very interested in what others have to say. As it very well may influance some of our fish room decisions.

EasterEggs
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Wednesday, April 3, 2013 10:54 AM
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For those using broodstock water, how do you prevent things like hydroids getting into the hatch tank?
 
Quote Originally Posted by KathyL
Does anyone sterilize the larval tank and if so, with what?

 
I do.  I have had very poor results using sterilized and unsterilized broodstock water.  I've had my best success using NSW.  I get everything set up the night before hatch, add 1 mL bleach per gallon, circulate for 18-24 hours, add sodium thiosulphate, circulate for 1-2 hours, add tile with eggs that I treat with hydrogen peroxide.  I've only raised a handful of batches, but all the ones with decent 72 hour survival have been this method.  I get 98-100% hatch.  Hard to say 72 hour survival...maybe 80%?  I'm still not very good or experienced at this...
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

Fishtal
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Wednesday, April 3, 2013 1:27 PM
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Quote Originally Posted by KathyL


Two questions;
Does anyone sterilize the larval tank and if so, with what?
Anyone tried probiotics?and if so, did you see improvement?

I've never sterilized my larval tanks but 99% of the time they have been cleaned with FW and left to dry for a week, or more, before using. If anything can survive that long I figure it should be allowed to live. Seriously though, I'm not fond of using chemicals when I don't have to. Less chance of messing up. 
 
I always had excellent results using broodstock water up until recently.
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GreshamH
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Thursday, April 4, 2013 3:59 AM
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Probiotics (bacteria) are hardly chemicals though.
 
Actually, using the right mix would solve your water quality issues (flared gills)
 
Expect to hear more about probiotics from me in the future  I've been using em since the late 90's.

Guerry
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Thursday, April 4, 2013 4:18 AM
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Quote Originally Posted by GreshamH


Probiotics (bacteria) are hardly chemicals though.

Actually, using the right mix would solve your water quality issues (flared gills)

Expect to hear more about probiotics from me in the future  I've been using em since the late 90's.

I look forward see what types of bateria's you've been using, I've read studies of increased growth and health when used in lavea tanks as well being enriched in then food source

mPedersen
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Thursday, April 4, 2013 4:54 PM
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On the probiotic front, I noticed this today - http://reefbuilders.com/2013/04/03/dvh-aquacrobes/

TheCoralShoppe
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Thursday, April 4, 2013 6:43 PM
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Very interesting Matt. Certainly willing to try anything that may help. 

EasterEggs
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Friday, April 5, 2013 1:15 PM
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I wonder if I can find that DVH Aqua-Crobes here in Canada.
 
EDIT:  I can't even find an online store that carries this product.  Just the direct website.  Anyone else find it?
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

Guerry
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Friday, April 5, 2013 6:03 PM
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Here's  one for you, but don't know about across the bourder shipping
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/additives/additives/dvh

EasterEggs
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Saturday, April 6, 2013 1:24 PM
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^  Thanks!  I didn't find them yesterday.
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

EasterEggs
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Re:Your BEST Clownfish Rearing Protocol? - Friday, April 12, 2013 11:05 PM
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Here's a 2010 article by Matt Clarke vaguely describing Lactobacillus rhamnosus probiotic use with larval Clownfish:
http://www.practicalfishk...k/content.php?sid=2737
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]