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Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:08 AM
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To cut a long story short, obtaining suitable copepods for raising Mandarins here in the UK has proven difficult. I have been trying to raise them for a month or two on rotifers without success and 7 DPH is my current best. I was about to quit and await an A Tonsa order which is due in April. I then saw that a supplier in the UK had started to stock Otohime feeds. I went ahead and ordered the smallest grade 75-150um and I started to experiment, it did not go to well. While playing with ideas someone on a group page had mentioned GP feeds so I went ahead and ordered the smallest grade which was claimed 5-50um So yesterday I fed 50 larvae the GP, I had lost them all 10 hours or so after feeding, and I suspect it was a pollution issue. I did however take some shots of the larvae before and after as I intend posting my findings in the UK forum once I have completed my trials. 4 DPH larvae before feed
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:12 AM
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Sorry but the thread is only allowing one attachment at a time. So that was the larvae before being fed.
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:15 AM
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The Otohime and GP side by side under the scope. Oto @ 75-150um GP @ 5-50um
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:18 AM
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About 10 hours later all the larvae were dead, I believe it was a pollution issue. Dead larvae photo taken approx 10 hours after adding feed.
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:32 PM
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They look full!... but dead.
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 4:35 PM
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Yep they were all dead after 10 hours, but it appears they had been eating the dry food.
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 5:06 PM
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Very interesting!! Thanks for sharing. What is "GP food"?
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:37 PM
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golden pearls I think they come from the us
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 8:55 PM
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Oh yeah. Brine Shrimp Direct has the Golden Pearls. My larvae love that stuff, but I was under the impression that it is not a complete feed, but more of an additive...?
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:39 PM
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We're you using any ammonia control with these foods? This is an exciting project.
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 11:13 PM
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Since I can't get Otohime , I've been using a combination of Golden Pearls and Hikari First bites. Both are designed as fry food, but largely for freshwater fish.
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 11:39 PM
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You use GP and first bites on mandarin larvae?
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 11:46 PM
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No, they are clowns. But the First bites and GP replaced the TDO.
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:31 AM
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Sorry, yes the food is Golden Pearls. The website I got the GP from stated Fresh and marine and shrimps. I also compared the make up of the Otohime and the GP and it is almost identical. I usually use the chloramx, but failed to use it on this batch. These are trials, I do not expect immediate results as there is no protocol for raising Mandarins on anything other than live foods. Both the Otohime and GP pollute small volumes of water quickly. Both have the appearance of rotifers when kept in suspension and my initial thoughts are all based on size. Those of you who have worked with Mandarins will know just how small they are. Most successes with Mandarins have come with the use of copepods (A Tonsa) but smaller numbers have been raised on rotifers. A Tonsa Nauplii average out at 70um S Strain rotifers (which I have been using) 150-220 um The Otohime I used 75-150um Golden Pearls 5-50um I am working on a way to keep the feed in suspension and to remove it. I will keep you all updated and will provide a link to my findings as they become available. For now it is encouraging that Mandarin larvae may be prepared to take dry feeds and the picture above may be the first of a Mandarin with a full stomach fed on dry feed. I collected a small spawn from my red pair last night (27-3) so I have a few days before I try again.
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Thursday, March 28, 2013 10:38 AM
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Have you thought about soaking the dry feed in a drop of something like selco, rinsing lightly and using that in suspension? Obviously it will not help with water quality but may just give you that extra edge when it comes time to push larvae through meta. What are your thoughts on keeping it in suspension? I was thinking you could try raising the larvae in inverted 2L bottles with rigid airline dialed down to a bubble or two a second. That may be enough to continuously stir the powdered food.
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Thursday, March 28, 2013 11:09 AM
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A 2L bottle is a pretty small volume of water though, and if there are already pollution issues, that may only make it worse. But maybe using inverted 2L bottle, with sections cut out and replaced with the appropriate sized mesh to allow for water exchange but to keep larvae in, and then clamp that onto the edge of something like a 20G long tank (the larger footprint would allow for more larval "flasks" on the perimeter). The tank itself could have water filtration, small skimmer, that sort of thing....but the issue of getting uneaten food out would still exist
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Thursday, March 28, 2013 11:20 AM
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Removing uneaten food can be done by replacing the cap of the inverted bottle with a sheet of the mesh you mentioned earlier. Rubberband mesh over the 'top' of the bottle and insert a finer mesh window on one side, then you'll have a constant flow of water from the larger system that keeps food inside and suspended. To remove unbeaten food, simply turn off air flow for an hour and allow the food to style out through the bottle neck, add new food and return airflow. Then old food can be siphoned out of the main tank. Think larval snagger with a twist.
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:18 PM
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I have a spray that is used for top dressing but I have not used it yet. I have ordered the parts to make a type of upweller although I may just simplify it and work on a flow through system. The food stays in suspension fairly easily with just air, I have been running air at 1 BPS but both the Oto and GP do eventually settle. I have mesh that will filter out 53um and above but the GP is 5-50um and so I plan on using a skimmer to remove it from the water in some kind of flow through. I have larger mesh's which will hold back larvae but allow food to exit. If it does not work I have seen old RO units used with peristaltic pumps to filter water. At the moment it all remains a work in progress and there are plenty of options to explore.
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Monday, April 1, 2013 4:51 PM
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Re:Mandarin Larval experiment with dry feed.
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 8:05 PM
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